Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

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Tsyroc
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Re: Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

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Chimaera wrote:Kilgrave has some fairly good regenerative abilities in the comics, right? In the series he seemed perfectly healthy a year after taking a face full of bus and getting a new pair of kidneys, apparently without the need for anti-rejection drugs.
He was also stabbed by his mother and seemed fine a few days(?) later. I wonder if he's as dead as he seems...though to be fair, that was one very broken neck he received courtesy of Miss Jones.

He has apparently come back from the dead at least once in the comics. He "died" when Namor shattered the globe that Doom was keeping him in that allowed Doom to control everyone in the world, except for Doom and Wonder Man. It was also a bit sketchy at controlling Namor. So, he's usually listed as having a regenerative healing factor but it takes awhile (probably the same bs thing that Norman Osborne has).

In the show, I got the impression that a bit more time had passed during some of the later few episodes than during the first 2/3rds or so, but that could just be me. Kilgrave also lost the bruise on his face from Jessica punching him fairly quickly. I supposed they could bring him back if they want to but in this world one would hope that someone would take some sort of precautions with his body. I'm for cremating him, but I'm guessing that with all the groups out there looking for powers that he'd be scooped up to be studied and I wouldn't put it past some of the sketchier elements to try and fix him.

According to Wikipedia he also survived getting hit by a train in the comics.
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Re: Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

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Kilgrave is in many ways still a ten-year old boy. The fancy restaurants, the purple suits, the nice houses, all these are Kilgrave trying to mimic being an adult, but not really understanding it. Hence why he demands that the chef at an Asian restaurant cook an Italian meal: like a child he doesn't want to give up the safety of the things that he likes. The only difference is that rather than throwing a temper-tantrum, he just tells people to do whatever he wants and they do so. He doesn't think about manipulating the Mayor or the military because he's never had to think about things like that. Jessica was the first person whom he couldn't control, so it was the first time he had to actually think about another person as a human being and not just as a toy to be manipulated. Hence the whole sequence at her family home: it's a child's thinking to try and put things back to the way they were before the "bad times" occurred. And when speaking with his parents he basically throws a temper-tantrum and declares that he is a good boy because he saved people that one time.

I liked the Simpson arc. I got the impression that he was already a little unhinged (trying to break down Trish's door, for example). He and Jessica had different priorities. Her priority was saving the girl, while his was stopping Kilgrave. And in a lot of ways he was correct. If Jessica had followed his advice and brought in his men, then chances are that they would have repulsed Kilgrave's rescue squad. If she'd let him take out Kilgrave rather than keep trying to capture him, then a lot more lives would have been saved in the long run.

Heck, after she found Kilgrave's parents, that would have been enough along with the video to create reasonable doubt in any jury.
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Re: Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

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Joun_Lord wrote:I am also enjoying the drama it seems to be causing on some parts of the intertubes. Some have taken to calling it such clever names as "AKA Tumblr". People are bitching about the fact that the entire cast is either female or a minority with the exception of the villain and one of the white dude roles (the lawyer person apparently) was changed into a gay female to check those PC boxes.

Strangely there wasn't much bitching when on Daredevil there was only like one black person in the main-ish cast (the reporter) and few minorities in general save members of the token asian gang.
Yep, there's a certain demographic that is so used to being catered to that when someone does something different they find it scary and threatening and they lash out.

Personally, I'm rather enjoying a tale where the focus is on women. Not “women's issues”, but women dealing with human problems as human beings.
Tsyroc wrote:As for the internet. I'm getting to the point where there is so much hostility and negativity about anything that anyone likes it just depresses me because that means there are a lot of hateful and angry people out there. This includes the Marvel vs. DC (shows & movies) people. I can't always even tell if it's just trolls being trolls. I mean, really? Is it that fun to just go stir shit up?
Some people just don't have enough drama in their lives. Not that I'm s superhero or ninja, but just dealing with interpersonal shit on a daily basis is drama enough for me – and then these same poseurs get into endless TV soap operas. Really? Don't you enough of that shit just going to work every day?

I've always enjoyed both DC and Marvel comics, and I'm enjoying at least some of the current movie and TV output of both. I don't see a need to divide into US vs THEM camps and defend the borders. But then, I'm weird.
IMDB's forum had a lot people complaining about and arguing about the sex scenes. I liked that they were there, although I thought one could have been directed better. I was a little annoyed at Daredevil that it teased at some nudity/sex with Karen in one of the early episodes and then that was it. It's not that Daredevil needs sex scenes or nudity it was just an annoying tease that didn't need to be there.
I liked that Daredevil did NOT have a romantic story B. What went on in Jessica Jones.... it fits in with the storyline and it's complicated and not all wonderful. It's not Hollywood romance.

Didn't Jones and Cage wind up married in the comics?
I haven't looked at any of the boards for the show for a bit now but I was surprised that there weren't complaints about the lesbian storyline because of the cheating, the vindictiveness, and mostly because one of them ends up killed by the other. I thought all three characters had some complexity to them which was cool but I thought there was a thing were it is almost a trope that lesbian characters tend to end up evil and/or dead. So I was expecting to see bitching about that.
The fact the relationship is lesbian is treated as a minor detail, otherwise, it's the “powerful lawyer cheats on spouse with secretary and things get ugly” storyline we've seen a million times before. It would have worked equally well with Hogarth being male and the relationship heterosexual. The cheating isn't because of the homosexuality. It's a subtle thing, but basically it's treating female characters the way male characters have long been treated.
Instead it's been almost entirely about the sex and other mature elements of a show that is tagged TV MA and is based on a Marvel Max title. Luckily it seems like the anti-sex crowd bailed on the show early and missed out on some of the disturbing violence/situations in later episodes.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that Marvel's Netflix offerings are a LOT more gritty and “adult” than the movie offerings. Which is fine. I enjoy me a good adult/mature story from time to time and as long as people know that going in, it's all good.

Some people get confused because they've long regarded comic books as the over-the-top costumed hero fantasy. That's never been true. “DC” comes from “Detective Comics” and that's originally what they were – illustrated stories of private eyes, police procedurals, and mysteries. Marvel long had a line of romance books. There were illustrated classics and histories. The superhero stuff wound up selling better, even if many disapproved, and got the limelight, that's all. Things like Daredevil and Jessica Jones are somewhat a return to those genres, with a dash of superpowers thrown in. Even so, what you get in Jones is pretty low-key powers and they're secondary to the story itself, which is how it should be and one reason the story telling is so good.
I do wonder a bit about the fortress like house. Other than a few mentions of stalkers and the abuse from her mother I'm not quite sure it comes across why she needs so much security.
I'd say creepy stalkers alone could make a person want that much security when living alone in New York City, it's just that, unlike most of us who have been single women living on our own in a big, potentially dangerous city Trish has the money to build a personal fortress. Me, I had to rely on a piece of pipe barring the door and gluing razor blades to the sill to keep Bad Guys from jumping up and climbing into the window.

I like the fact that, even through Trish has clearly had professional-level self-defense training and got a few nasty hits in they showed that against a trained man she was going to lose in the end. Against a typical mugger, sure, she has a chance but not against Simpson. That's just the reality of being a woman – all other things being equal you're not going to win against a man in a physical fight.

I mean, yeah, I like the fantasy of kicking ass, that's part of the appeal of a character like Jones, but it's not how it plays out in reality.
streetad wrote:Kilgrave doesn't seem like the 'take over the world, massive evil plan' type. He's more of a mundane, everyday sort of villainous sociopath who just happens to have an incredibly dangerous superpower.
Kilgrave isn't ambitious. That's really the heart of it. He's got an immensely powerful tool but basically he just wants nice clothes, a place to live in comfort, good food, and lots of sex (at least in the TV portrayal, he's a bit different in the comics but still not very ambitious). He's a slacker, sort of like a really intelligent, talented kid who just wants to play video games all day instead of running a corporation.

If it wasn't for the fact he leaves dead and broken people in his wake the most cost-effective response would be to ignore him. He causes damage because he's thoughtless, not because he actively wants to cause harm. Unfortunately, he's like a six year old running around with a loaded gun - his intentions don't matter much because the damage he's doing can't be allowed to continue.
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Re: Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

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Broomstick wrote: I've always enjoyed both DC and Marvel comics, and I'm enjoying at least some of the current movie and TV output of both. I don't see a need to divide into US vs THEM camps and defend the borders. But then, I'm weird.
Same here. Both the weird and enjoying both comic companies. I've tended to read more Marvel throughout my life but got into varying DC titles after the first Crisis on Infinite Earths and John Byrne took over writing Superman. Now if only both companies would stop with the massive crossovers all the time. Those always manage to ruin books that I am thoroughly enjoying on their own merits. :)
Broomstick wrote:Didn't Jones and Cage wind up married in the comics?
Yep. They even have a daughter (Daniela) named for Iron Fist (Daniel Rand) Luke Cage's best bud. I'm guessing they are holding off on any kids at least until after the Iron Fist show.
Broomstick wrote: The fact the relationship is lesbian is treated as a minor detail, otherwise, it's the “powerful lawyer cheats on spouse with secretary and things get ugly” storyline we've seen a million times before. It would have worked equally well with Hogarth being male and the relationship heterosexual. The cheating isn't because of the homosexuality. It's a subtle thing, but basically it's treating female characters the way male characters have long been treated.
I agree, and I rather liked it better this way.

Broomstick wrote:I think it's pretty clear at this point that Marvel's Netflix offerings are a LOT more gritty and “adult” than the movie offerings. Which is fine. I enjoy me a good adult/mature story from time to time and as long as people know that going in, it's all good.
Definitely on the same page there. I read a few of Marvel's MAX titles that Alias was a part of. Some were really good. Others were a bit over the top (Fury, a couple of Punisher books) but that was because of the writers.
Broomstick wrote: I'd say creepy stalkers alone could make a person want that much security when living alone in New York City, it's just that, unlike most of us who have been single women living on our own in a big, potentially dangerous city Trish has the money to build a personal fortress. Me, I had to rely on a piece of pipe barring the door and gluing razor blades to the sill to keep Bad Guys from jumping up and climbing into the window.

I like the fact that, even through Trish has clearly had professional-level self-defense training and got a few nasty hits in they showed that against a trained man she was going to lose in the end. Against a typical mugger, sure, she has a chance but not against Simpson. That's just the reality of being a woman – all other things being equal you're not going to win against a man in a physical fight.

I mean, yeah, I like the fantasy of kicking ass, that's part of the appeal of a character like Jones, but it's not how it plays out in reality.
Trish's doorman also seems to kind of stink so it was a good investment that she got all of those security upgrades.

I like her realism as a bit of a counterbalance to Jessica's super stuff.
Broomstick wrote: Kilgrave isn't ambitious. That's really the heart of it. He's got an immensely powerful tool but basically he just wants nice clothes, a place to live in comfort, good food, and lots of sex (at least in the TV portrayal, he's a bit different in the comics but still not very ambitious). He's a slacker, sort of like a really intelligent, talented kid who just wants to play video games all day instead of running a corporation.

If it wasn't for the fact he leaves dead and broken people in his wake the most cost-effective response would be to ignore him. He causes damage because he's thoughtless, not because he actively wants to cause harm. Unfortunately, he's like a six year old running around with a loaded gun - his intentions don't matter much because the damage he's doing can't be allowed to continue.


He got pretty intentionally nasty at times there at the end. The stuff that he was doing to to his staff at Jessica's old house was pretty horrible. There's also the two guy's whose house he took over and then made them "erase his father from the world". I supposed the child analogy might fit with that last bit because it could be construed as part of a tantrum.
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Re: Marvel's Jessica Jones on Netflix

Post by bilateralrope »

FaxModem1 wrote:Honestly? One of two ways, one, have Jones use Kilgrave to make the world a better place, with a self-admitted monster being used and restrained by Jessica to make wrongs right, though that would require Jessica to actually be heroic again.
That only works as long as Killgrave enjoys the praise. Once he gets sick of it and ditches or kills Jessica, nothing stops him going back to what he was before the 'heroics'.
Or two, Jessica tries this approach, and tells Kilgrave that he's utterly petty in his approach. Kilgrave simply goes, "Nah, that sounds like too much work, but you're right, I could be more ambitious." Cue Kilgrave working towards being King of New York, with Jessica having to work harder to stop him than a cat and mouse game that lasts 5 episodes.

Because after Jessica's home, and the cage, it's nothing but a cat and mouse game for the rest of the series, and to make up for that, they have other characters become villains so that they can pad it out, which was rather unsatisfying.
I don't see how Killgrave trying to take over New York do anything to reduce the cat and mouse game. It just changes who Killgrave can put between himself and Jessica.

But it adds problems:
- I hate villains who want to take over a city/country/the world for the sake of taking over. I prefer it when they want to take over because taking over is part of their plans to accomplish their goals. Killgrave doesn't have any goals that would benefit from such conquest.
- The more noticeable Killgrave's actions become the harder it is to justify the Avengers or SHIELD not doing anything about him.
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