Sustainable vampirism possible?

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biostem
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Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by biostem »

For this discussion, I'd like you to consider 2 forms of vampirism;

1. The first is the virus/epidemic type of vampirism, where anyone who is bitten, turns. These vampires have many of the traditional weaknesses, (must feed on blood, vulnerable to sunlight, and can be destroyed if they sustain enough damage). They can recover from any injury that doesn't outright destroy them, but need a supply of fresh blood sufficient to carry out the repairs, (let's just say that they need a % of a person's blood equal to the % of tissue they need to replace/repair). These vampires also stop aging, are immune to disease, and do not require any other form of food/nourishment or air.

2. The second scenario is where vampirism can only be spread in a fashion similar to Interview with a Vampire - the vampire must drain the human, then replace some of their blood with their own. In addition to the strengths/weaknesses mentioned earlier, these latter vampires also gain 1 dark "gift" from the transformation, (I'm going by the "gifts" portrayed in the Interview with a Vampire movie for my reference, here - so we have mind reading, super strength, super speed, and perhaps some sort of gravity-defying abilities). Humans so-turned, in this second group, also tend to be "enhanced" as part of their transformation, so they take on a sort of ideal appearance once turned. This second group also causes pleasurable/euphoric sensations when biting a regular human.

A few additional notes: When first turned, and unless initially provided with another vampire's blood, the freshly-turned vampire will be overcome with hunger, and will be unable to think rationally until its hunger is sated. All vampires can tell who is or is not human, but only within a few dozen feet, and even then, this sense is not very specific - a normal human who is very close to death, for instance, may not register, just a a vampire would.


Given the 2 varieties of vampire above, and assuming you were in charge of the rebuilding efforts, after whatever event lead to their appearance, how would you go about rebuilding society? These are 2 separate universes, (so it's not like you have to deal with both type of vampires simultaneously), but in either setting, total extermination of the vampires is not possible, (assume that what led to the downfall of civilization was a previous attempt at wiping them out completely, thus that isn't an option). The threshold for this vampire-induced apocalypse is unknown as well, but that it does come with some some warning signs, such as the formation of inexplicable superstorms, earthquakes, and the like. While not overtaken by hunger, vampires of both varieties possess human-level intelligence.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by Purple »

Get infected, join the vampires and let someone else sort the mess out whilst I live out a couple thousand years in reasonable leisure.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by bilateralrope »

The first scenario requires humans who get fed upon to be killed to prevent them becoming a vampire, otherwise the vampire population will grow to the point where there aren't enough humans to feed them all. To prevent a human uprising, the majority of the population needs to be convinced that the humans being used as food deserve to die. If vampire numbers are low enough there might be enough people being executed under the death penalty to sustain them.

The second scenario is better as there is nothing requiring humans to die when fed upon. The feeding being pleasurable also helps. If vampire numbers are low enough it should be possible for there to be enough people who volunteer to have their blood sucked on a regular basis. If there aren't enough volunteers at first, have financial incentives for humans to join a feeding group. Vampires who kill someone while feeding upon them, even by accident, will be put down.
When first turned, and unless initially provided with another vampire's blood, the freshly-turned vampire will be overcome with hunger, and will be unable to think rationally until its hunger is sated.
How much blood does a newly turned vampire need to consume ?
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biostem
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by biostem »

How much blood does a newly turned vampire need to consume ?
Figure 8-16 oz should suffice to stave off any immediate hunger.

I was also thinking that, if you could separate a group of the "plague vampires", that you could perhaps incentivize donating blood, and feed them so that they can maintain enough self control so they're not a problem. I still wouldn't let them out into the general populace, as even an accidental bite would turn someone. There's also the possibility of someone who is terminally ill trying to get bit on purpose.

Do you think some sort of mandatory blood donation, by healthy humans, would be feasible? Perhaps you could attach monetary or other compensation as an incentive.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by madd0ct0r »

well, if you are going to that extreme, modified bone marrow floating in a tank with nutrients being fed in to keep churning out red blood cells seems one option.

Cattle or goats suitable modified to express the right ratios would be even better, as they can consume grass.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by Zixinus »

The first is going to be problematic to contain because it sounds like the most convient epidemic to get ever. It might sound great but if the majority of the population decide that being a vampire is great then you are going to have problems once there are more vampires than humans that can feed them.

There was actually a movie about this called Daybreakers, complete with "peak oil" warnings and such where vampires without blood become monsters. It was complete even with a world adjusted for vampires, with everything being active at night, cars modified to be sunless, clothes and police to manage things, etc. They ended up killing the mayority of the human population until a cure for the disease was found.

The second is a far less worse than the first version, if by nothing else but by allowing the people in it to have abilities that can compensate for their need for blood. Any spread has to happen intentionally too, so it would not spread so quickly or easily.

EDIT: Actually, it raises the question of how much resources does it take to drain people of blood in a sustainable manner? How many humans would it take to quench the thirst of one vampire, in either the first or second case?
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by Solauren »

Either one of them is sustainable.

All you need to do is find a rich, sick and dying person with lots of money. (sorta like what Anna Nichole Smith did....)

"Hey, look, here is what I can do for you."

After that, once turned, rich guy has 10 - 20 (healthy) people imported from a 3rd world shit-hole. In exchange for a fairly comfy life (by any standards, let alone what they had before), they get drained of a pint of blood at roughly twice the length of time it takes to replenish it.

You can how sustain yourself, and your new rich-meal ticket.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by Zeropoint »

If I had the political clout to make things happen, in either case I'd put a lot of resources into developing in-vitro blood production (something we could use in the real here and now, even!). Until that got rolling, I'd establish a program to pay uninfected humans for their blood--not too different from some of the programs we have now. And of course, I'd make non-consensual biting of a human a crime with a very stiff penalty, like life imprisonment (which starts looking pretty bad for an ageless vampire!) or death. If the vampires can live off of animal blood . . . well, I'd invest in pig and goat ranches. :)
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by biostem »

One of the reasons I started this thread is that in one of the Rifts books, (South America, IIRC), it talks about vampire kingdoms, where vampires rule regular humans, but said humans are protected, but are also "taxed" in terms of having to donate blood, (though it's been a while since I read that book, so I could be mis-remembering).

I did see Daybreakers, but it just annoyed me how stupidly shortsighted they were in that movie - money is a huge motivator, so if you payed people to donate at whatever rate is healthy/sustainable, then they wouldn't run into the problems that they did. Forcibly kidnapping people, then putting them in a coma and draining them till they die is just foolish.

The main sticking point is that becoming a vampire is a very attractive thing to some people. Sure, not everyone would want to become one, but there'd have to be some way to control who does or does not become one, and also ways to encourage enough people to remain human, so as to sustain them. Obviously, if animal blood is sufficient, then everybody could conceivably be turned...
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by FaxModem1 »

biostem wrote:I did see Daybreakers, but it just annoyed me how stupidly shortsighted they were in that movie - money is a huge motivator, so if you payed people to donate at whatever rate is healthy/sustainable, then they wouldn't run into the problems that they did. Forcibly kidnapping people, then putting them in a coma and draining them till they die is just foolish.
That was the point, in that corporate greed and consumption is not sustainable and leads to such a scenario if left unchecked.
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Re: Sustainable vampirism possible?

Post by Zixinus »

The most important question is whether will the vampires actually manage to organize themselves enough to be able to have long-term plans? Remember that they are still human at heart (or should be mostly), humans who only recently had become vampires. They may not think in the kind of long-term that is needed to contain their numbers and simultaneously manage their public image.

These newly-fanged vampires will still have loved ones they will wish to keep alive forever and they will have loved ones too and so on. This can and will get out of hand very quickly, to the point that proper containment cannot be effectively enforced.
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