The Sharing Knife Tetralogy - A Different Viewpoint

[Broomstick]

I am re-reading The Sharing Knife Tetralogy, which on the surface is a pretty straight-forward fantasy about a threatened world, heroes, mighty deeds, and a little romance and sex thrown in. There's a slightly different take on "magic" than usual, and the Big Bad is pretty damn scary. Some of the cultural concepts are are unusual. But that's not what I'm here to talk about.

You see, the most unusual thing about these four books are the narrative viewpoint. The two main characters are Fawn and Dag, and what's written from Fawn's viewpoint is very much a woman's perspective. If you've heard discussions about the male gaze, if you doubt that it's a thing, then this series is the counter-argument, the "female gaze".

How is that different than the more typical woman-protagonist-written-by-a-man? Well, for one thing, discussion of "woman things" like menstruation and miscarriage are pretty frank. This isn't some feminist fantasy with a Strong Female Lead - it's a story about a strong, resourceful, brave frontier-type woman who wants things like a husband, a farmhouse, children, and a pretty mundane life darning socks in the evening after dinner who gets a little... sidetracked. This is not a Warrior Woman/Amazon type who is a secretly super fighter, or some militant feminist lesbian. In physical confrontations Fawn routinely gets her ass handed to her, and the one time she most decisively puts down a threat it's due to the Big Bad completely overlooking her as possibly harmful to it. She was written quite realistically from that viewpoint.

So, the story is a good read, and I'd recommend it on that, but given the perspective is different from the usual (even from women writers, who have long imitated the male style of writing because that was often the only way to get published) I thought I'd recommend for guys who like SF and Fantasy but might also might be interested in something a bit different. It's funny/sad - I've probably read more SF stories written from a supposed alien's viewpoint than from a human woman's viewpoint, by which I mean a real woman, not a caricature or distortion or man's viewpoint of a woman's viewpoint (I maintain it is possible for a man to write an authentic "woman's gaze" female protagonist but it's extremely rare. Others do not share that opinion).

Of course, it may not appeal to a lot of guys - the series is not nearly as popular the Vorkosigan Saga by the same author and I can't help but think the very female viewpoint is part of that. But I thought I'd throw it out there as a bunch of books I've enjoyed reading twice.

[Darmalus]

Checked, and it's available. Well, the first 2 books anyway. So I'll read them to see about this "female gaze" thing. I can understand the concept in visual mediums, but I've never been quite able to wrap my head around it for written mediums, since what a character pays attention too should be consistent with their character, doing otherwise is just... bad writing, I guess.

As far as fewer aliens than women, I'd guess with an alien you get a pass on any oddities by saying "Alien! It's weird!" where a female character has potentially 50% (or more) of your audience rolling their eyes.

[Ahriman238]

I've got a lot of reading on my plate right now, but consider me intrigued.

[Broomstick]

Checked, and it's available. Well, the first 2 books anyway. So I'll read them to see about this "female gaze" thing. I can understand the concept in visual mediums, but I've never been quite able to wrap my head around it for written mediums, since what a character pays attention too should be consistent with their character, doing otherwise is just... bad writing, I guess.

And there are a lot of badly written women characters!

It's not a hit-you-over-the-head effect - which is good because it's not that radical a shift. Let me know what you think of it. I'll be gone about a week, so you'll have plenty of time to enjoy it without me distracting you.

[Guardsman Bass]

I'll have to try this out. I've read Bujold's Chalion books and liked them, so I'll probably enjoy this fantasy series as well.

[Darmalus]

Got a copy of book 1 and about halfway through, just finished chapter 10. Well written, so I'll likely finish the whole tetralogy eventually.

I've just been writing down any thoughts I have as they come. No deep analysis.
Spoiler

Rape is definitely a concern traveling male characters usually don’t share.

If there hadn’t been focus on her, I’d have dismissed Fawn as a briefcase character (Could they be replaced with a briefcase).

Definitely a creepy bad guy. I’ve taken to calling them cancer elementals.

The sharing knife lore is magnificent. Very touching.

Fawn definitely feels different than female characters written by men. Her priority list isn’t alien, but definitely reshuffled.

The Lakewalker/Farmer relationship strikes me as very fragile. It wouldn’t take a very long period of no boggle activity to completely sunder the bond completely and deprive the patrols of the charity they seem to need to survive.

The Mari-Dag confrontation in Ch10 seems to be doing its best to cut the Men Are The Disposable Gender trope off at the knees after seemingly to embrace it earlier with the gender makeup of the patrols. I feel like I’m getting the same “multi-generational ownership” vibe from Mari that I also got from the female characters in Mad Max. Interesting contrast to the male characters who, even if they don’t want to die, do seem to treat themselves as disposable.

[Broomstick]

Some of the interesting realism in this series:

Miscarriage isn't a trivial event. Granted, Fawn's is more epic than the typical, but it's treated as something that yes, can actually kill a woman in some circumstances and also something it takes time to get over mentally as well as physically, even if the baby wasn't particularly wanted.

Being handicapped is, well handicapping. Even with a remarkably versatile swiss army knife prosthetic, Dag's lack of a hand is an on-going problem that won't go away. Spoiler

And then he breaks his good arm...

Dag's hook/other gizmo is not as good as a hand, it breaks sometimes, it irritates his stump, it even causes a couple problems later on... It's entirely plausible given the tech level of this society, and there are past instances of people utilizing adaptive hooks and such in real life so it's not much of a reach for the story.

People knocked out don't recover immediately. In fact, sometimes they die of it.

I do think the story finishes in book 4 at a good place from the standpoint of storytelling as a craft. I'm OK with the author not writing more or dragging the series out more. It's actually refreshing seeing a series end these days instead of going on and on. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing more stories set in this world, either contemporary with this tale or as either a distant prequel or sequel.

I'm just finishing up book 4 again. Couple responses to yours, all spoilered:
Spoiler

Rape is definitely a concern traveling male characters usually don’t share.

That, and being physically overpowered so easily. As Fawn points out later, her only defense is her wits. Which are formidable. She saves Dag's life a few times just as he saves her on occasion.

If there hadn’t been focus on her, I’d have dismissed Fawn as a briefcase character (Could they be replaced with a briefcase).

...which is often how women are treated not just in fiction but also in real life....

Definitely a creepy bad guy. I’ve taken to calling them cancer elementals.

Some of the ones they face later are worse. The one Fawn kills is, basically, a baby.

The sharing knife lore is magnificent. Very touching.

Yes, I thought it was quite an unusual element. Also, it takes TWO lives to take down a malice, minimum, and usually more people than that die in the attempt.

The other interesting twist is that one Lakewalker can take part in up to three malice kills (one death donation plus two femur donations) without ever leaving camp, and it's implied perhaps as many as five (it's stated that sometimes the humerus is used for a sharing knife, presumably that from a large man). The bottleneck isn't really the supply of bones, it's the supply of people donating their deaths, and apparently even that isn't running to shortage (yet).

There's a rather tragic case later on of a sharing knife being broken in a common brawl, no malice involved. I thought the layers of emotion there were handled well.

Fawn definitely feels different than female characters written by men. Her priority list isn’t alien, but definitely reshuffled.

That's what I meant by the "female gaze" - Fawn's priorities and mine are pretty congruent, more so than is often the case with action/adventure/fantasy/fictional heroes.

I also thought Bujold did a fine job of illustrating just how much some men are thoughtless assholes (as opposed to villains raping and pillaging) versus the majority who, despite different interests and priorities, are pretty decent human beings.

The Lakewalker/Farmer relationship strikes me as very fragile. It wouldn’t take a very long period of no boggle activity to completely sunder the bond completely and deprive the patrols of the charity they seem to need to survive.

It's also a problem of largely hunter/gatherer (Lakewalkers do have some primitive farming) vs. agriculturalist societies, and societies that own land collectively vs. those who own land individually. This is addressed most directly in book 4, in the southern regions that have been without malices for a couple centuries and the Lakewalkers started having problems with farmers moving in and claiming their lands when the Lakewalkers weren't constantly occupying a camp. Lakewalkers having some forms of craftwork and production enable them to be at less of a disadvantage than usually happens with such groups, but yes, it IS a problem.

It's also handy that southern Lakewalkers experiencing land pressure from surrounding farmers can send their surplus population to the north where malices are, regrettably, more common. Once the last malice is gone, though, and all the land is settled - yeah, definite upcoming conflict.

The Mari-Dag confrontation in Ch10 seems to be doing its best to cut the Men Are The Disposable Gender trope off at the knees after seemingly to embrace it earlier with the gender makeup of the patrols. I feel like I’m getting the same “multi-generational ownership” vibe from Mari that I also got from the female characters in Mad Max. Interesting contrast to the male characters who, even if they don’t want to die, do seem to treat themselves as disposable.

You have a situation where there is a significant mortality rate among adults, due to the Malice War or whatever the hell you want to call it. This is addressed off and on throughout the series.

Men are the gender most suited to physical fighting, therefore, they wind up doing the bulk of it. Physical force, however, is not the sole requirement for fighting a malice (that's why farmer's can't - no matter how strong they can't resist being mentally enslaved) so women can be useful in such conflict. However, it is established very early on that both children and pregnant women are the tastiest malice food around. This means not only do women pretty much need to have good sized families, to replace not only "oops, 19th Century tech can be hazardous and there are natural hazards impacting our population" but also "oh, geez - we have this multi-generational conflict going on" losses. And they have to do this away from malices. So... yes, men are and will continue to be the bulk of patrollers, with women either in very junior positions or as leading elders. The men are pretty obligated to reproduce, too, but human biology makes it plain that men can reproduce AND fight malices with no additional risk.

Long term Lakewalker strategy is that young people train for at least basic malice-combat, the women "retire" during their childbearing years, then some return to the field after menopause and most adult men patrol. (We do meet at least one exception in book 4, a woman making her adult career that of patroller, but she is very much an exception and is under some family and social pressure to take a break from that for at least a little while to have a few kids, maybe with a non-fighting man who does crafting work). There are men who are NOT combatants - Dag's brother is a sharing knife maker, he does not and is not expected to take part in field combat - so it's possible a woman making a career of patrolling might marry such a man, who then becomes the primary child care parent, but most of the men "excused" from combat are either weapons makers, doctor-equivalents, or disabled/elderly. ALL adults undergo some combat training because if a malice does crop up near camp the plan is for the pregnant women and young children to run the hell away, with the other adults - yes, women, old men, and cripples - fighting a delaying rear-guard action to the death. Except they don't always die. You get to see some of that in book 2.

There are Lakewalkers who do not fight - again, you see some of them in book 2. Dag's brother, Dag's sister in law (she's a horse breeder and trainer), and so on. The result is that Lakewalker society is in some ways more egalitarian than the Farmer's. Gender roles are much less rigidly defined for Lakewalkers. Men with certain talents are (we see in later books) forbidden to engage malices in combat, they're too important in their support roles.

Now, Farmer society also tends to treat men as disposable, but they also probably have an oversupply. This is a 19th Century tech level, no antibiotics or anesthesia (well, mostly not - Lakewalkers have some ground work that substitutes, and the Farmers seem to have some notion of germ theory as well as opium and alcohol). In addition to illness and accident all people in their society are prone to, women also die more often in childbirth than in our society. There really aren't quite enough women to go around, so... yes, there ARE surplus men.

[Adam Reynolds]

Spoiler

That, and being physically overpowered so easily. As Fawn points out later, her only defense is her wits. Which are formidable. She saves Dag's life a few times just as he saves her on occasion.

Despite being marketed almost exclusively for boys, the first Avengers movie almost had an undercurrent of this issue with Black Widow and the Hulk. Though of course the issue was dropped rather than considered. This is the same franchise that doesn't even have a Black Widow action figure.

Fawn definitely feels different than female characters written by men. Her priority list isn’t alien, but definitely reshuffled.

That's what I meant by the "female gaze" - Fawn's priorities and mine are pretty congruent, more so than is often the case with action/adventure/fantasy/fictional heroes.

In what sense is this the case?

[Broomstick]

Despite being marketed almost exclusively for boys, the first Avengers movie almost had an undercurrent of this issue with Black Widow and the Hulk. Though of course the issue was dropped rather than considered. This is the same franchise that doesn't even have a Black Widow action figure.

I disagree - Black Widow is not just smart, she is also arguably at peak physical prowess for a woman. She's not as strong as her male teammates, no, but she IS very strong for a woman, likely stronger than the average man, extremely flexible/dextrous, and she very much has had combat training. Black Widow isn't as strong as the Hulk but her training allows her to escape via Olympic-level feats of athleticism when the Hulk is pursuing her.

Fawn Bluefield is a tiny woman, this is brought up time and again, small enough that people keep mistaking her for a young teen rather than a full adult (she's 19-20 throughout the series - fully adult in the context of her society). She's probably not as strong as her Farmer sisters-in-law, she is definitely physically weaker than the Lakewalker women. Her "combat training" consists mainly of being told "stick the pointy end in the monster" (which actually works pretty well under the circumstances). She repeatedly demonstrates she can't escape from or evade normal male humans.

Yes, the Black Widow relies on her wits while operating with superheros, but if nothing else she's had training and conditioning Fawn Bluefield doesn't and never will have. Fawn is, at heart, a farm wife. Brave and full of gritty spirit, but just a very average woman physically at best.

Fawn definitely feels different than female characters written by men. Her priority list isn’t alien, but definitely reshuffled.

That's what I meant by the "female gaze" - Fawn's priorities and mine are pretty congruent, more so than is often the case with action/adventure/fantasy/fictional heroes.

In what sense is this the case?

Dealing with morning sickness is dealt with as more than just "pukes in the morning" - there's that whole bit about general queasiness, trying to figure out if this food or that will set it off, and so forth that is usually glossed over or ignored in fiction. There is also the matter of fatigue, which early in pregnancy can be debilitating especially when combined with vomiting up a lot of what you manage to eat.

The whole sub plot with her near-fatal miscarriage, told from the woman's viewpoint.

Menstrual problems - after the malice-caused near-fatal miscarriage Fawn has months of menstrual problems that leave her bed-ridden or nearly so at times, and she has to deal with this while existing in a 19th Century tech society (meaning everyone does physical labor) AND living a nomadic existence on the road. You don't usually get that in fiction. Let me underline that - this woman is living on the road, in a world where "get a drink" frequently means you have to haul a bucket tens of meters up a well, while she doubled over in pain and this happens to her every month. Thank goodness she has friends!

Fawn takes on the support role time and again - she makes sure the "soldiers" are fed, equipped, gets some rest/sleep, she takes on the role as medic. This is the traditional female role and we're seeing it from the woman's viewpoint rather than just "serving wench slams trencher in front of hungry hero" then back to the story. In a later part of the series the boys with her all sign on as laborers - very traditional in adventure stories. She signs on as a cook - which is not only a traditional role for women, but makes abundant sense in the context of the story and the society. She can't assume a laborer role - she just doesn't have the physical strength. So she she does what she can and it enables her to be part of the adventuring party.

There's also a scene where a male jackass makes a snide comment about coming a long way to do laundry for invalids and the reaction of the Lakewalker women in the group make it clear that while Lakewalker gender roles are more flexible than those of Farmers certain tasks still fall disproportionately on women in their society as well.

Her focus on the family is very traditional, but it's much more nuanced and complex than "wants babies", which all too often is what (lazy) male writers resort to. She very much wants babies, but there's a constant internal contemplation of now vs. later, how babies might be managed on the road or in a Lakewalker camp vs. what she was raised to that is almost never seen in literature or even biography but is very much a calculation real women make.

The disregard of her concerns, her opinions, her dismissal as someone worth listening too is not just the problem of a young adult, it's also a problem of adult women. "There, there you poor thing - the big bad man has bewitched you, you don't know what you're talking about." isn't just because Dag is a Lakewalker, it's also because he's even older than her father.

While the Older Man/Younger Woman sort of relationship is seen frequently in fiction (and isn't that unusual in real life) we usually see it from the man's viewpoint - this series is very much from the younger woman's viewpoint.

Those are just off the top of my head.

I see some parallel with my own experience in male-dominated fields (one major difference between Fawn and me is that I am a stronger than average woman - even so, I couldn't sign on as a laborer in her society, either. I just couldn't physically keep up with the men). The reason I was able to work construction jobs in our society is the great leveling effect of powered tools, and even then there were just some jobs I couldn't physically do - so I had to find a role where I'm useful. This might be a situation where my smaller size/lesser weight is an advantage and not a disadvantage, or I act as a support person to make the job of someone engaging in a more physically demanding task easier. Can't handle the really big jackhammer? OK, then I get sent to get lunch for everyone, get fuel for the machines that need it, reposition the ladders, organize things/clean up when others are resting, and so on. That sort of thing.

[Adam Reynolds]

This does sound interesting, after I finish The Martian I will check these out.

I disagree - Black Widow is not just smart, she is also arguably at peak physical prowess for a woman. She's not as strong as her male teammates, no, but she IS very strong for a woman, likely stronger than the average man, extremely flexible/dextrous, and she very much has had combat training. Black Widow isn't as strong as the Hulk but her training allows her to escape via Olympic-level feats of athleticism when the Hulk is pursuing her.

Oh, I agree here. I was simply stating that in relative terms she is by far the weakest of the team. And there is actually a particular scene after she escapes the Hulk that I was thinking of with this comment. She is cowering in a corner while Thor fights the Hulk. It was the fact that she sat and did nothing while the men fought. It was the idea that nothing she could possibly do would have any effect in a fight between virtual demigods.

And as I said, the movie largely glossed over this issue rather than exploring it.

[Darmalus]

Sister visited for a while, so I only just now finished up the first book. Excellent read, liked how it ended on a high note.

As usual, thoughts of no particular depth as I had them. Spoiler

Mixed gender patrols. They mentioned being able to control your own fertility, which solves several issues that I saw come up more than once in the Navy, and makes mixed patrols with Lakewalker promiscuity more plausible. Really helps that the Lakewalkers seem matriarchal/egaltarian, though I do wonder how they keep the unpopular patrolers who never get any companionship from burning up with jealousy and/or rage. Maybe they just make sure they're too busy and tired. Or maybe Lakewalkers don't have the same level on emphasis on "no sex = failed at life" we do. Permavirgin was considered a go-to insult on the board for most of it's history, after all.

Whit strikes me as almost a male version of Fawn, someone with a lot of potential burning up doing nothing. He has taken a different path, obviously, but he seemed to follow Dag like a starving dog after only a few fragments of new ideas/information were tossed his way.

The bits about how farmer magic completely transforms the grounds of stuff are interesting, though other than making a note of the difference between the two peoples it doesn't seem like it will amount to much.

Hopefully this is the last we see of Sunny. I dislike it when a minor antagonist overstays their welcome (ie requires staggering levels of insanity to continue pursuit).

Last section is very Dag focused, but he is also the fish-out-of-water. I imagine we will get a perspective flip to Fawn when they reach his camp.

Good insight on the blood, Spark. I shall follow your continued observations with interest.

The marriage was interesting, but I have no real perspective, having never been to one.

Am I the only guy who will hang out in a kitchen/room/house packed with women during a party/gathering? Come on guys, there's food here! Then again, I may simply be unwelcome and too dense to notice.

[Broomstick]

Spoiler

Mixed gender patrols. They mentioned being able to control your own fertility, which solves several issues that I saw come up more than once in the Navy, and makes mixed patrols with Lakewalker promiscuity more plausible. Really helps that the Lakewalkers seem matriarchal/egaltarian, though I do wonder how they keep the unpopular patrolers who never get any companionship from burning up with jealousy and/or rage. Maybe they just make sure they're too busy and tired. Or maybe Lakewalkers don't have the same level on emphasis on "no sex = failed at life" we do. Permavirgin was considered a go-to insult on the board for most of it's history, after all.

Problem Lakewalkers can face exile. There is also the problem that if a Lakewalker can't get another Lakewalker to have sex with him (or her) they can use ground to compel a farmer into sex. That can also lead to penalties, if not among Lakewalkers then at the hands of Farmers.

Justice tends to be spotty and by "committee" in the world. It's certainly not a perfect society.

Whit strikes me as almost a male version of Fawn, someone with a lot of potential burning up doing nothing. He has taken a different path, obviously, but he seemed to follow Dag like a starving dog after only a few fragments of new ideas/information were tossed his way.

It's the problem of the "excess" children in a society set up with the oldest inheriting all - the younger kids are stymied in ambition. The going off the farm to find fortune has long been a common solution, and it's the one that works for Whit.

The bits about how farmer magic completely transforms the grounds of stuff are interesting, though other than making a note of the difference between the two peoples it doesn't seem like it will amount to much.

More could have been done with it, yes.

Last section is very Dag focused, but he is also the fish-out-of-water. I imagine we will get a perspective flip to Fawn when they reach his camp.

Yes, it will

The marriage was interesting, but I have no real perspective, having never been to one.

I thought it was handled well.

Am I the only guy who will hang out in a kitchen/room/house packed with women during a party/gathering? Come on guys, there's food here! Then again, I may simply be unwelcome and too dense to notice.

More likely you're just an outlier.

I've been "exiled" to the kitchen more than once while the men sit in the main room doing... whatever. It's annoying at times. I've also managed to be included in the "men's group" in the main room and avoid the kitchen. Different and interesting dynamics between the two, particularly with my in-laws where gender roles are more sharply defined.

[Zixinus]

I just finished book 4 yesterday.

It was a good read and a good book by any means. It is a bit more slow-paced and more mundane-focused than regular fantasy books I've read. There were times when I was bored from the mundane scenes following one after another, although each book has a conflict that manages to make things interesting enough. The book is very good in being grounded and make the story more believable. Fawn especially because she wants what regular people would want but shows her mettle in how she endures harsh and unusual situations with little complaint.
As for Fawn being a fighter: I kind of get the impression that's sort of Dag's side of things while Fawn helps Dag deal with people.

The only thing that I would call an obvious anachronism in the book is the mention of hours because there are no mention of clocks. Without clocks to be used to, people in such an environment would constantly refer to the sun's or moon's position and have a different sense of time. However this is an acceptable anachronism because it helps communicate to the reader's sense of time.

The only thing that did bother me a bit in book three and four is that Dag seems to be a companion-magnet. He keeps attracting people to him and sometimes the reasons why they follow Dag isn't always clear or feels flimsy.