LOTR RAR, tourism

[Elheru Aran]

The problem here is that the actual attractions of Mordor are very low. Elves are not going to be interested in visiting; they're pretty allergic to Bad Things. Humans likewise don't have much incentive to come by, unless you're offering free land or something. If Sauron sets up as a minor divinity, you could start a religion (IIRC that may have been the case among the Easterlings or Haradrim), so there's the potential of pilgrimages-- always lucrative for the people receiving the pilgrims. The Dwarves are about the only people who would be interested, and they'd be there for purely mercenary reasons-- to study the architecture and to explore mineral possibilities. So not particularly 'tourist'-y. You could possibly try to attract Ents in order to reinvigorate the land, but it'd be difficult-- they have the same allergy to evil as the Elves.

Frankly, the concept is not particularly sustainable without a few thousand years to starve down the Orc hordes and to butter up Sauron's public image. In the Third Age, everybody still remembers how he managed to bring about the destruction of Numenor. How are they to know he's not up to similar shenanigans? How am *I* as his Minister of Tourism to avoid getting run out of town on a rail for telling people to 'come visit the.... ah... picturesque Land of Mordor, Sauron is totally not going to kill you'?

Seriously. It's not like Iraq was particularly a tourist spot after the first war. Saddam played up a lot of PR, but nobody ever really bought it IIRC.

[Purple]

Well basically remember all those enslaved evil men, orks etc. The ones that were able to assemble an army to almost conquer all of Middle Earth? Well you essentially have all those resources to work as your workers and PR department. You could send out thousands of men to spread leaflets and stuff.

And of course you can redecorate Mordor somewhat. Want to build a luxurious resort near that big Sea of Nurnen or start reclaiming parts of the landscape for use for forests? Well you can. Sauron has basically given you free reign to remodel large swathes of Mordor (it's not like he is using that land anyway) to something like a giant "Sauron is not mean, really" theme park.

[Elheru Aran]

Because that totally worked for Gadhaffi or Hussein.

People don't tend to trust megalomanical despots. They know quite well that it doesn't do to go visiting and expect nothing to happen.

[Starglider]

Obviously the answer is to use orc slave labour to build a massive theme park, including water parks, safari zone and ski resort under giant crystal domes. There will be a Mines of Moria roller coaster, a Paths of the Dead haunted house ride, a Mirkwood Barrel Run water ride, a Lonely Mountain Casino and an adventure show with troll boxing. VIPs will be flown in by fell beast.

[Me2005]

Want to build a luxurious resort near that big Sea of Nurnen...?

Actually, without hiring out Dwarven, Human, or Elvish craftspeople, I'm not sure you can. I'm pretty sure it's implicit in the world of Middle Earth that beautiful things can only be created by the beautiful races. The nicer constructs that Orcs/etc. inhabited were all built by Humans, Dwarves, or Elves and the Orcs just came in and took them over. Once taken, they even began to decay and show signs of Orc habitation. Orc-labor could make a resort but it'd be horrifying and, well, Orcish.

[Purple]

Want to build a luxurious resort near that big Sea of Nurnen...?

Actually, without hiring out Dwarven, Human, or Elvish craftspeople, I'm not sure you can. I'm pretty sure it's implicit in the world of Middle Earth that beautiful things can only be created by the beautiful races. The nicer constructs that Orcs/etc. inhabited were all built by Humans, Dwarves, or Elves and the Orcs just came in and took them over. Once taken, they even began to decay and show signs of Orc habitation. Orc-labor could make a resort but it'd be horrifying and, well, Orcish.

Well you do have access to human work as well. All those evil men under Saurons rule would I imagine enjoy the break from slave labor for the sake of war to slave labor for the sake of a madmans whim. Than again hiring out foreign craftsman might make the whole project more believable and draw tourists in as well. So these are things to think about.

[The Romulan Republic]

If you're building stuff in LotR, don't you kind of have to go with either dwarvish or elvish craftsmen if at all possible?

[Elheru Aran]

If you're building stuff in LotR, don't you kind of have to go with either dwarvish or elvish craftsmen if at all possible?

...where would you get this notion from?

Humans built the empire of Numenor and much of the massive fortifications that dot most of Middle-Earth. They built Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Orthanc, even the Black Gates of Mordor, and Helm's Deep, among many more.

They're quite capable of building great and lasting works. Dwarves and Elves merely have a little more magical mojo going on is the only difference, but it's notable that at least some of the old Numenorean works are still standing after millennia (Orthanc, Minas Tirith, etc), suggesting that they weren't without their own mojo.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its not that humans can't do it. Its just that with dwarfish culture, working with stone and metal is kind of their thing. And elves... well, magic and centuries or millennia of experience.

[Lord Revan]

If you're building stuff in LotR, don't you kind of have to go with either dwarvish or elvish craftsmen if at all possible?

...where would you get this notion from?

Humans built the empire of Numenor and much of the massive fortifications that dot most of Middle-Earth. They built Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Orthanc, even the Black Gates of Mordor, and Helm's Deep, among many more.

They're quite capable of building great and lasting works. Dwarves and Elves merely have a little more magical mojo going on is the only difference, but it's notable that at least some of the old Numenorean works are still standing after millennia (Orthanc, Minas Tirith, etc), suggesting that they weren't without their own mojo.

well if you want to build something that will last and doesn't it's safety hazzard just to look at, you pretty much need Elves, Dwarves or humans (possibly even "high" human aka numenoreans or their decendents as I don't think the architectural capabilities of the southern nations was ever described).

[The Romulan Republic]

The non-Numanorean humans are perfectly capable of building decent structures, albeit not on the same scale.

Rohan builds mainly in wood, doesn't it?

Then there's the Laketown/Dale humans to consider.

[Elheru Aran]

It's not like the ridiculous notion of an amusement park in Mordor requires thousand-year building skills. If you want to build something like that, Third Age human tech should work just fine for basic rides and what not. The problem is you'll never get anybody to come to it; there's simply too much distrust and hatred of Sauron and his workings on a base level among the people of Middle-Earth that don't follow him. Like I said, it'll take centuries if not millennia before that could be overcome.

Mordor could be compared in some ways to a massive concentration camp half a continent wide, if you want to look at the emotional side of things. It's a land where people have been enslaved, tortured, corrupted and destroyed for millennia, where a horde of literally inhuman monsters ruled, and one of the foulest and most puissant powers of Middle-Earth's entire history lived. Not a pleasant place to visit, no matter how many pretty flowers and shit you may scatter about. If Sauron wants to landscape it into prettiness, he needs to turn the volcano off and get going, because it's going to take a LONG time.

[Purple]

You sound like you are in a hurry.

[Batman]

If we want to get it done in a human lifetime (even a LotR one) leave alone have the thing actually make a 'profit', we kinda have to be.

[Purple]

If we want to get it done in a human lifetime (even a LotR one) leave alone have the thing actually make a 'profit', we kinda have to be.

It does not have to make a profit, it's not meant to earn money anyway, just be a big propaganda machine.

[Tribble]

Well as I said earlier he could use the 12 Rings of Power in his possession to speed things up. They weren't inherently evil, just highly susceptible to his will because he helped make them. As they are under his control I don't see why he can't turn them back to their original purpose of preserving and beautifying things. Although they not be anywhere near as powerful as the Three individually, he has a lot more of them.

I wonder what kind of effect that would have on the Nazgul?

[Esquire]

If we want to get it done in a human lifetime (even a LotR one) leave alone have the thing actually make a 'profit', we kinda have to be.

It does not have to make a profit, it's not meant to earn money anyway, just be a big propaganda machine.

Are you really not getting this? It can't be done. There is nothing Sauron can do within at least two lifetimes that will convince people he's not the absolute worst thing to happen in two whole Ages. Even if he could, he couldn't do it in Mordor; it's a corrupted volcanic wasteland where the nicest inhabitants are cannibalistic inhuman savages.

[Purple]

If we want to get it done in a human lifetime (even a LotR one) leave alone have the thing actually make a 'profit', we kinda have to be.

It does not have to make a profit, it's not meant to earn money anyway, just be a big propaganda machine.

Are you really not getting this? It can't be done. There is nothing Sauron can do within at least two lifetimes that will convince people he's not the absolute worst thing to happen in two whole Ages. Even if he could, he couldn't do it in Mordor; it's a corrupted volcanic wasteland where the nicest inhabitants are cannibalistic inhuman savages.

So use two lifetimes. You have time to spare. That's also part of the contract.

[Kelp]

There are so many ways to go about doing this.

Historical Landmark:
Reenactment of Dead Marsh Past Battles by local ghosts

Art and Culture:
Battle of the Band: Drum line by Troll Drummers
Mordor Symphony
Olympic
New Year Festival
Oktoberfest

Education:
Magical Theories by Professor Saruman. Distant education available through Palantíri (seeing-stone)
History of Middle Earth by Professor "Witch King"
Public Speaking by Professor Wormtongue

Food and Entertainment:
Minas Morgul Bar and Grill
Hot Springs and Spa of Mt Doom
Black Gate Brothel and Casino
Farmer Market
Petting Zoo

I got these at the top of my head. I'm sure there are much more we can do.

[Joun_Lord]

For the inhabitants of Middle Earth I couldn't see much want to go there. Its a blasted hell on earth that all the evil since forever has came from.

Most inhabitants aren't going to find really anything interesting to see there beyond some minor things. Plus I can't really see sightseeing being a big thing in Middle Earth.

Now real world humans, they would love it. This is the most exotic place ever. Dark and scary, filled with monsters and spooky buildings that are 5spooky10me, ghosts and goblins literally, like a massive haunted house. Alot of people love scary, love getting close to danger even if there is no actual danger, just the hint of it. Going to Mordor Land is like a safari, shark cage, roller coaster ride, Renaissance festival and haunted house all in one.

Mt Doom would draw a crowd just like real world volcanoes and lava flows do. Those dead people swamps would probably be great for glass bottomed boat rides. The underground tunnels would be great for tours.

Plus Mordor could serve as the gateway for the rest of Middle Earth. People are going to want to visit the Shire, the elf place, Minas Tirith, and Helms Deep. Sauron makes that happen with Orc tour guides. Any tourism goes through him giving him a bit of leverage over everyone else, anyone who doesn't want to pay ball or give him a cut has the tourism to their areas cut off, tours for Gondor are canceled until further notice. Why conquer them when you can make money off them?

[bilateralrope]

Your expected tourist crowd includes the middle earth races.

Forget Mordor. How many of them would even be interested in tourism to a nice place ?

How many of those would be able to afford it ?


How far did a typical person in Middle Earth travel in their lifetime ?

[Purple]

Assume that travel costs are taken care off by Mordor on account of Sauron being willing to go as cheap as token prices as long as that is required for his propaganda project to work.

[bilateralrope]

There is still the cost of the people being away from their home and job for so long.

[Purple]

Well sure, but that exists today too and people manage.

[Batman]

So how does Mordor finance all this?