You command the Watcher's Council.

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The Romulan Republic
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You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Here's the scenario:

Thanks to Q/a holodeck/whatever, you get to play the role of leader of the Watcher's Council. Basically, for whatever reason Mr. Travers is not the boss and you are put in his place. You assume power just before Buffy is called as a Slayer.

Your objectives are to prevent the end of the world and the end of the Watcher's Council and reform the Council to better protect the world from supernatural threats.

If you die, you return to your reality unharmed. When you left, Narnia style.

All prophecies are in effect as in canon, for whatever that's worth (they are unreliable).

First priority: Giles gets promoted pronto and given the Buffy assignment from the start. That said, Giles can be a bit of a loose canon, so I'll use his past as Ripper for blackmail. Wesley gets put under the command of someone who can act as a mentor and bring out his better qualities while discouraging the negative ones. His father gets told to fuck off. Also, if she's around, I keep an eye on that rogue Watcher lady from season three (as I recall, she might still be a Watcher at this time). If she's already known to have turned bad, I lock her up. Travers is unceremoniously sacked and locked up if I find cause for it. And I also pull the plug on the Council's wet works unit. Or rather I pull the plug on the existing unit and replace it with a larger force of more stable operatives composed of trained Potentials who are now adults and Watchers. Specialized weaponry to kill supernatural creatures will be issued to it.

Secondly: We stop taking Potentials away from their family for training. They will be watched, their parents will be notified, and when they are older they will be given the option to train with and join the Council. We also make it clear to Slayers that the extent to which they fight with us is up to them- no more fucking child conscripts.

Thirdly: All Watchers will be expected to gain field experience. You want to sit in an office and leave all the fighting to the Slayer? There's the door. I will rotate Watchers between research, beurocratic, training, and field positions so that nobody's combat skills get rusty.

I'll elaborate on my plans for taking on threats outside the Council later. The end game is preemptive strikes on the First Evil, Jasmine, and Wolfram and Hart, but that will need a lot of preparation. The First Evil can probably wait the longest because it was specific circumstances involving Buffy's death that lead to it doing what it did and I don't mean to let history repeat itself. Likewise, Wolfram and Hart is a long-term threat (though the people it hurts every day need help). Jasmine is probably the most pressing major threat. That, and something really needs to be done about Angel, his curse, and the possibility of Angelus showing up.

Oh, and Spike and Drusila get destroyed. I like Spike as a character, but I can't count on him getting a soul in this reality and he's a fucking vampire. A particularly dangerous one too.

Edit: Added a minor clarification regarding Travers.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Contrary to what Buffy says, the Watchers seem to do more than just watch Masterpiece Theater and watch slayers pointlessly die. They seem to their fair share of heavy lifting via their own hunting of vampires and demons, stopping of apocalypses, and keeping their reins in the bureaucratic power in the nations of the world.

I justify this based on the fact that we know there is more than one Hellmouth(Cleveland, at least), and that while Buffy is certainly busy in Sunnydale, there haven't been any other apocalypses starting up anywhere else. If not the Initiative, or the Watchers, then who is putting out all those cosmic fires that must be going on?

That said, even if the Watchers are heavily taxed dealing with vampire populations and other mystical crap, I'm sure the Council can spare a research and escort team for the Slayer. Buffy having a team of professionals to research all those demon books for whatever is coming will come in handy and save many manhours of reading books. An escort team will also be useful, in that while Buffy is the Chosen One and quite a capable fighter, her having back up of experienced watchers or those armed with crossbows, a mage or two, or other specialists will definitely be handy.

That's immediate stuff. After that, expand our investments, which are supposedly sizable, into tech firms like Apple and Google, an increase of funds as the 21st century starts will be helpful, and heavy control over two of the biggest tech companies will help. Updating of our armory is also on the table. Guns with blessed bullets, or super soakers full of holy water will help. Of course, vampires will still have to be dealt with via wood from a stake or crossbow, or we'll see if shotgun rounds are good enough to decapitate a vampire.

Gwen Post will be given a psychiatric evaluation, as will all Watcher members, on a semi annual basis, just to ensure none of them are wanting to turncoat.

The mayor of Sunnydale will get to meet our Wetworks team, since he is a very real clear and present danger, no Slayer required to deal with an evil immortal human.

Since funding is guaranteed once Apple and Google, and other tech firms start paying off, we begin recruitment. We're already a worldwide organization with offices across the globe, it's time to mobilize strip clean the demonic community. We'll start with Sunnydale first, as it seems to be a hotbed of demonic activity. Surrounding the city under the guise of being an FBI/DEA investigation or whatever, we'll clean out every house, crypt, demon, temple, etc in search of 'domestic terrorists/cults' while genuinely removing the supernatural population there. Buffy will lead in this manner.

Once that's done, and the city is cleaned out, give Buffy the choice of moving with us as we clean the world, city by city, or only coming in cases of direct emergency. A stipend for her and her mother will of course be on the table, first class hotels and room service will be a rather good motivator, and only the best for Little Miss Cannon fodder. She'll probably be needed if a pure-demon or something like that is out there, after all.

Have diplomatic members, whoever that may be, approach Whistler, Doyle, the Oracles and other seers, ask if they would like to join our ranks, or be up for an alliance. Same with more corporeal allies, such as the American Initiative, and the Knights of Byzantium, in a purging of evil.

If necessary, a slow breaking of the Masquerade may be in order, as the biggest thing killing people is that no one knows there are actually demons and vampires out there. Making sure people know that they're the bad guys, and that they can be killed, would solve a lot of problems, but could also create just as many, so this is a weapon of last resort.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by Purple »

First thing to do is expand recruitment. There are plenty of young mages, librarians and the like in the universe that we can hire as field agents. They don't have to know the big picture in order to be helpful. They just need to know that their wealthy and eccentric employer wants them to investigate spell X or write a dissertation on book Y. That should take care of a lot of busy work from the watchers and free them up for more important things.

Also, make sure to get a hold of Faith and assign her to special observation.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote:Contrary to what Buffy says, the Watchers seem to do more than just watch Masterpiece Theater and watch slayers pointlessly die. They seem to their fair share of heavy lifting via their own hunting of vampires and demons, stopping of apocalypses, and keeping their reins in the bureaucratic power in the nations of the world.

I justify this based on the fact that we know there is more than one Hellmouth(Cleveland, at least), and that while Buffy is certainly busy in Sunnydale, there haven't been any other apocalypses starting up anywhere else. If not the Initiative, or the Watchers, then who is putting out all those cosmic fires that must be going on?
Frankly, their are enough groups running around that someone else could have done it. There is US government awareness of the supernatural going way back (at least to World War II based on Angel). There are the religious groups. There are the Powers That Be. And there's infighting between bad guys. Wolfram and Hart actually helped stop the First Evil's plot in season seven.

And the show depicts the Watchers in general, as quite adept at magic, research, and bureaucracy but not good at fighting in the field.
That said, even if the Watchers are heavily taxed dealing with vampire populations and other mystical crap, I'm sure the Council can spare a research and escort team for the Slayer. Buffy having a team of professionals to research all those demon books for whatever is coming will come in handy and save many manhours of reading books. An escort team will also be useful, in that while Buffy is the Chosen One and quite a capable fighter, her having back up of experienced watchers or those armed with crossbows, a mage or two, or other specialists will definitely be handy.
I'm worried about them trying to control Buffy too much and Buffy becoming too dependent on them. My preference is to just make Giles or someone similar my liaison to Buffy and intervene as little as possible in her life but have back up on hand if she requires it.
That's immediate stuff. After that, expand our investments, which are supposedly sizable, into tech firms like Apple and Google, an increase of funds as the 21st century starts will be helpful, and heavy control over two of the biggest tech companies will help.
This very much uses the Council's strengths. It is depicted as rich and excellent at bureaucracy, even if its not a heavy-hitter in terms of magical or military power.
Updating of our armory is also on the table. Guns with blessed bullets, or super soakers full of holy water will help.
Excellent.
Of course, vampires will still have to be dealt with via wood from a stake or crossbow, or we'll see if shotgun rounds are good enough to decapitate a vampire.
One word regarding vampires: Flamethrowers. Enough Holy Water will do it too.
Gwen Post will be given a psychiatric evaluation, as will all Watcher members, on a semi annual basis, just to ensure none of them are wanting to turncoat.
Smart move. In fact, making sure Watchers, Potentials, and Slayers have regular access to psychiatric help could go a long way, especially given what they have to deal with.
The mayor of Sunnydale will get to meet our Wetworks team, since he is a very real clear and present danger, no Slayer required to deal with an evil immortal human.
My concerns about moving against him right away are two fold:

First of all, offing a presumably fairly popular politician, even one in a small town, could bring attention from law enforcement that we do not want.

And secondly, I'd bet my ass that he's a Wolfram and Hart Client. Its never said as far as I'm aware, but he's a politician with demonic connections and a good public image living near LA. We might be picking a fight we're not ready for by going after him.

Plus there's the whole issue with just gunning people down, though the Mayor has it coming.
Since funding is guaranteed once Apple and Google, and other tech firms start paying off, we begin recruitment. We're already a worldwide organization with offices across the globe, it's time to mobilize strip clean the demonic community. We'll start with Sunnydale first, as it seems to be a hotbed of demonic activity. Surrounding the city under the guise of being an FBI/DEA investigation or whatever, we'll clean out every house, crypt, demon, temple, etc in search of 'domestic terrorists/cults' while genuinely removing the supernatural population there. Buffy will lead in this manner.
Way, way too intrusive, and I don't want to rely on Buffy and put her in a role that she's not ready for or wants to have.

We can't go door to door among the civilian population. For one thing, this is America. We will have gun owners blasting away at the trespassers on their property.

However, we can quietly go through the cemeteries at night and take out any vampires and other demons we find. A few squads will cover ground faster than Buffy's patrols do. But handling all of Cleveland will be a lot harder, so Hellmouth number two could be a big problem.
Once that's done, and the city is cleaned out, give Buffy the choice of moving with us as we clean the world, city by city, or only coming in cases of direct emergency. A stipend for her and her mother will of course be on the table, first class hotels and room service will be a rather good motivator, and only the best for Little Miss Cannon fodder. She'll probably be needed if a pure-demon or something like that is out there, after all.
Like I said, I don't want to rely on Buffy on meddle with her life more than I have to. But yes, giving her some actual resources is a good idea. The part of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where Buffy is effectively a single mother forced to spend her nights working in fucking fast food while the Council sits on its big pile of cash is fucking disgusting. Its not just a question of human decency, its a question of wasting your most powerful asset on flipping burgers. For that alone, Travers is criminally incompetent. Did I mention that I'm going to sack that motherfucker?
Have diplomatic members, whoever that may be, approach Whistler, Doyle, the Oracles and other seers, ask if they would like to join our ranks, or be up for an alliance. Same with more corporeal allies, such as the American Initiative, and the Knights of Byzantium, in a purging of evil.
The Initiative is corrupt as fuck and doesn't exist when this happens and based on what I know about Wolfram and Hart's ties to the US government, could probably be easily compromised by them. The Knights of Byzantium are fanatics. And I don't trust anyone who's tied to the Powers That Be even as far as I can throw them.
If necessary, a slow breaking of the Masquerade may be in order, as the biggest thing killing people is that no one knows there are actually demons and vampires out there. Making sure people know that they're the bad guys, and that they can be killed, would solve a lot of problems, but could also create just as many, so this is a weapon of last resort.
Secrecy about the supernatural is pretty much dead by the end of Angel, I suspect, and I get the impression that a lot of people already know about magic but keep quiet out of fear and/or denial.

Informing ordinary people is a good idea. I'm thinking of taking a page out of The Dresden Files and creating something similar to the Paranet to inform people about supernatural threats. Those who don't know what's going on may see it as a fiction or conspiracy theorist site, but others may find it a very useful asset.

You know, Willow might be damn good at setting such a thing up, I bet. And Jenny Calendar could be bloody useful for that too aside from some dubious attitudes/loyalties.

Which brings me to another point. Do I train Willow to use magic? She has the potential to be an incredibly powerful magical asset- I can't think of anyone else on the good guy's side who could plausibly throw down with, say, Illyria, Jasmine, and the Senior Partners. But a lot of magic in this setting is really fucking nasty and Willow has that history of abusing it.

Maybe she'd do better with better training, but dare I take that risk?

Either choice is a gigantic gamble.

And two interesting points, Purple.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

A few other points:

1. I want to catch Anyanka (it shouldn't be too hard even without the ritual to summon her- she has a predictable approach) and make her human. Then give her a choice- sit in a cell for the rest of her life or help the Council. Anya's pragmatic, so I think I know which one she'll pick. Hopefully she can be rehabilitated. And if she can be, she'll be a fantastic source of information. And also an asset for taking out D'Hofferyn, who, its implied in season seven, is allied to or serving the First Evil.

2. Talk to Kate Lockley and any other cops if they find out about the supernatural. Give them the therapy they require. And if possible, turn them into allies.

3. Some in the Council may be suspicious about how I know so much and make such radical changes. Passing myself off as some kind of psychic might be useful as a cover story. I'll probably come clean with Giles though as I'm thinking of making him my second in command if things go well.

On that note, moving too quickly my alert the more powerful villains that something is up. I don't want, say, the First Evil or Wolfram and Hart making me priority number one before I'm ready to kick their teeth in with a surprise attack. I want to make the Watchers' Council more competent, but I don't want draw attention until I'm ready to do so in the form of my opening salvo against the big powers. That may be a pipe dream, of course. But at the least I don't want to have to take on more than one of the big powers in an all-out fight at a time early on. My preference would be to hit Jasmine, then Wolfram and Hart, and then the First Evil.

One last point- Buffy's death in season one. That's a matter of prophecy. And she only survived because the Master killed her in a particular way (drowning) and Xander was on hand to perform CPR (which is not a sure bet). If I change things, it might not happen that way.

Best I can do is have a team of paramedics and doctors waiting right outside the Master's lair and a sniper with a bow or a squad with flamethrowers covering each entrance for when the fucker comes out, I suppose. Bloody hell, that's going to be a tricky op.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Another thing, increase communications between members of the Watchers Council. Buffy and Kendra almost killed each other due to miscommunication, and the Watchers not really informing Giles of what's going on until its too late. Since we're taking over Apple, we might as well enjoy the benefits of having major investments in the telecommunications industry.

Another thing that absolutely needs to be done is increasing security of Watchers facilities. If a crazy superhuman priest can smuggle explosives into all Watcher facilities around the globe to effectively end the organization, then the buildings need to be given better security from the ground up. Demons and vampires might not be able to come inside, but humans can still be a threat to the Council.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: I'm worried about them trying to control Buffy too much and Buffy becoming too dependent on them. My preference is to just make Giles or someone similar my liaison to Buffy and intervene as little as possible in her life but have back up on hand if she requires it.
That's the whole point of it, Slayers are the Watchers superweapons in their war against evil, and while still a human being and should be treated as such, her having access to some really good researchers and fighters is to ensure her survival.
Updating of our armory is also on the table. Guns with blessed bullets, or super soakers full of holy water will help.
Excellent.
Of course, vampires will still have to be dealt with via wood from a stake or crossbow, or we'll see if shotgun rounds are good enough to decapitate a vampire.
One word regarding vampires: Flamethrowers. Enough Holy Water will do it too.
Supersoakers are kids toys, and don't require many problems with shipping or handling, shotguns can be obtained almost anywhere, and blessed bullets or ones dipped in holy water are rather easy to do. Flamethrowers are difficult to acquire, easy to cause collateral damage, can rupture, taking the person equipping it down, and would not be worth having. Not to mention, customs won't be as much of a hassle when you're shipping water guns and blessed bullets than if you tried to equip an illegal weapon overseas or if you get stopped by the cops for carrying them.
The mayor of Sunnydale will get to meet our Wetworks team, since he is a very real clear and present danger, no Slayer required to deal with an evil immortal human.
My concerns about moving against him right away are two fold:

First of all, offing a presumably fairly popular politician, even one in a small town, could bring attention from law enforcement that we do not want.

And secondly, I'd bet my ass that he's a Wolfram and Hart Client. Its never said as far as I'm aware, but he's a politician with demonic connections and a good public image living near LA. We might be picking a fight we're not ready for by going after him.

Plus there's the whole issue with just gunning people down, though the Mayor has it coming.
Hence the use of the wetworks team, having it look like an accident or killed by a rival will bring investigation into all the shifty matters he was into, maybe even exposing the way he has his hands into all sorts of nasty affairs, exposing the principal, the chief of police, and anyone else in his corrupt administration.

Way, way too intrusive, and I don't want to rely on Buffy and put her in a role that she's not ready for or wants to have.

Like I said, I don't want to rely on Buffy on meddle with her life more than I have to. But yes, giving her some actual resources is a good idea. The part of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where Buffy is effectively a single mother forced to spend her nights working in fucking fast food while the Council sits on its big pile of cash is fucking disgusting. Its not just a question of human decency, its a question of wasting your most powerful asset on flipping burgers. For that alone, Travers is criminally incompetent. Did I mention that I'm going to sack that motherfucker?
My objective is to stop supernatural threats, I don't really care if this affects Buffy's social life if the world is at stake or at ridding a town of some supernatural evil. Sure, she can attend classes, have friends and such, but when we need her, we need to tell Giles that we have work to do, and that it's more important than whether or not Buffy can make a date.
The Initiative is corrupt as fuck and doesn't exist when this happens and based on what I know about Wolfram and Hart's ties to the US government, could probably be easily compromised by them. The Knights of Byzantium are fanatics. And I don't trust anyone who's tied to the Powers That Be even as far as I can throw them.
Better to try to have friends who are supposedly on the same side, than to be at loggerheads or finding yourself against them. This way, coordination leads to less fighting, more intel on what's going on, and unlike Travers, the possibility of stopping a hellgod is more important to me than whether or not Buffy is humbled. Jenny Calendar's Roma clan would definitely be good allies, if they're up for it. Thanks for bringing them up.

Bringing in Buffy's friends, such as Xander, Willow, Oz, Angel, and Cordelia would be good, as Xander, Cordelia, and Oz could be potential watchers, for Colonials, and Willow, if given proper instruction and taught ethics, could be useful on the side of light. Once Tara comes into town, invite her along. Angel could be our man on the outside, letting us know about who to avoid, and a good resource for intangible evils, such as that one who possessed Giles' teenage gang and the haunting in Sunnydale High School. Those are probably not isolated incidents.
And the show depicts the Watchers in general, as quite adept at magic, research, and bureaucracy but not good at fighting in the field.
Are we sure about that? Giles, Wesley, and Robin Wood were all raised by Watchers, and are all rather badass. The Wetworks team fell to the slayers, but seemed quite good at what they were doing. The only watchers we really see get taken down in combat are the ones who were guarding a crazy vampire and were undermanned. Wesley's main problem seemed to be that he had no experience whatsoever. It seems more logical that Watchers need experience in the field after they leave the Watcher Academy to put their training into practice.




On a final note, eliminate the Cruciamentum, I see no purpose for this test aside from showing the evils of tradition in a long standing organization.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote:Another thing, increase communications between members of the Watchers Council. Buffy and Kendra almost killed each other due to miscommunication, and the Watchers not really informing Giles of what's going on until its too late. Since we're taking over Apple, we might as well enjoy the benefits of having major investments in the telecommunications industry.
How secure are such communications going to be?

Heck, what happens after 911 (presuming it happens in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer universe) and the NSA gets free reign to tap our phones? Don't tell me that Wolfram and Hart doesn't have plants in the US government.

Is their some way to use magic to screw with phone taps?
Another thing that absolutely needs to be done is increasing security of Watchers facilities. If a crazy superhuman priest can smuggle explosives into all Watcher facilities around the globe to effectively end the organization, then the buildings need to be given better security from the ground up. Demons and vampires might not be able to come inside, but humans can still be a threat to the Council.
I think it was only the HQ that was blown up. Other places were attacked, but I don't know what the method was for all of them.

In any case Caleb had the full backing of the First Evil, which means he had access to someone who can impersonate (and presumably has access to the memories of) anyone who's died. That's going to give him a lot of intel. and an edge breaking into places.

That's going to be hard to counter. Two measures that come to mind are automatically changing all our codes/passwords any time someone who knew them dies (a hassle but justified by the nature of the opponent) and to require all Watchers to shake hands or something upon meeting anyone, since the First Evil is supposed to be incorporeal (though the show was contradictory on that point).
FaxModem1 wrote:That's the whole point of it, Slayers are the Watchers superweapons in their war against evil, and while still a human being and should be treated as such, her having access to some really good researchers and fighters is to ensure her survival.
Well, I can't object to that.
Supersoakers are kids toys, and don't require many problems with shipping or handling, shotguns can be obtained almost anywhere, and blessed bullets or ones dipped in holy water are rather easy to do. Flamethrowers are difficult to acquire, easy to cause collateral damage, can rupture, taking the person equipping it down, and would not be worth having. Not to mention, customs won't be as much of a hassle when you're shipping water guns and blessed bullets than if you tried to equip an illegal weapon overseas or if you get stopped by the cops for carrying them.
You made some good points, but the flamethrowers can be around specifically for apocalyptic situations. Ie when the situation has become bad enough that secrecy and the law don't really matter any more.
Hence the use of the wetworks team, having it look like an accident or killed by a rival will bring investigation into all the shifty matters he was into, maybe even exposing the way he has his hands into all sorts of nasty affairs, exposing the principal, the chief of police, and anyone else in his corrupt administration.
Well, if we can pull it off.

It might be better to nail him with something magical rather than a mortal weapon.

And the show suggested that his deputy mayor might have been about to turn on him before Faith killed him. Maybe see if we can get an informant in his organization?
My objective is to stop supernatural threats, I don't really care if this affects Buffy's social life if the world is at stake or at ridding a town of some supernatural evil. Sure, she can attend classes, have friends and such, but when we need her, we need to tell Giles that we have work to do, and that it's more important than whether or not Buffy can make a date.
In theory I agree with all of that. Its just that Buffy is a person, a kid at the start at that, not a tool. Plus she has her issues that make her unreliable, though at least some of that is the result of stuff we can hopefully avert. And if canon establishes one thing about her its that if you push her, she'll resist. I do not want to turn her against me, because while I'm not really worried about her taking the Council down if my other reforms work, she'll be useless if I'm forced to kill her or lock her up.

Hence use a light touch. Don't make her do anything, but keep her in the loop and rely on her sense of duty and compassion to motivate her. If she takes some time off for personal reasons, good. It'll keep her from getting worn out or losing it. We should only need her for the big stuff anyway.
Better to try to have friends who are supposedly on the same side, than to be at loggerheads or finding yourself against them. This way, coordination leads to less fighting, more intel on what's going on, and unlike Travers, the possibility of stopping a hellgod is more important to me than whether or not Buffy is humbled. Jenny Calendar's Roma clan would definitely be good allies, if they're up for it. Thanks for bringing them up.
Better to have allies you can count on than people who might stab you in the back. The Initiative, at least, can be filed under bad guys (and even if it couldn't, its incompetent). And the Powers That Be... ties to Jasmine, who is my primary opponent early on.

The Roma clan has some magic, but probably nothing we can't get elsewhere. And they're too fixated on their vengeance on Angel, or at least Jenny's uncle is. Still, I'd like to see if we can get some more information on the curse out of them. I want to alter Angel's nature so that there's no risk of Angelus emerging. And like I said, Jenny could be useful for the communications department, if she can earn my trust.
Bringing in Buffy's friends, such as Xander, Willow, Oz, Angel, and Cordelia would be good, as Xander, Cordelia, and Oz could be potential watchers, for Colonials, and Willow, if given proper instruction and taught ethics, could be useful on the side of light. Once Tara comes into town, invite her along. Angel could be our man on the outside, letting us know about who to avoid, and a good resource for intangible evils, such as that one who possessed Giles' teenage gang and the haunting in Sunnydale High School. Those are probably not isolated incidents.
Well, given that I had this start right around when Buffy is called, she won't be with her group of friends in Sunnydale yet. But our operatives can meet up with Willow, Xander, etc. (who will likely find out about magic regardless living in Sunnydale) because there's no way I won't have men permanently stationed in Sunnydale (and if Buffy is in the field, she'll likely end up their anyway given what happens their and how close she is to it).

And we have to deal with Angel because he's a major player in prophecy. But he will be watched closely. Angelus aside, he's not a psychologically health or stable person. That said, I'm going to do him a solid and see if I can find a way to fix his curse so Angelus won't come back.
Are we sure about that? Giles, Wesley, and Robin Wood were all raised by Watchers, and are all rather badass. The Wetworks team fell to the slayers, but seemed quite good at what they were doing. The only watchers we really see get taken down in combat are the ones who were guarding a crazy vampire and were undermanned. Wesley's main problem seemed to be that he had no experience whatsoever. It seems more logical that Watchers need experience in the field after they leave the Watcher Academy to put their training into practice.
The Watchers who were bad ass were generally those who had either left the Council or had gained extensive field experience (Giles). Hence my plan to rotate Watchers into the field.
On a final note, eliminate the Cruciamentum, I see no purpose for this test aside from showing the evils of tradition in a long standing organization.
Ditto.

Testing is all very well, but the Cruciamentum seems needlessly dangerous and sadistic. Its also impractical because it risks killing off Slayers in their prime and replacing them with an inexperienced kid. Did I mention the criminal incompetence?
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'd like to elaborate on this:
Purple wrote:First thing to do is expand recruitment. There are plenty of young mages, librarians and the like in the universe that we can hire as field agents. They don't have to know the big picture in order to be helpful. They just need to know that their wealthy and eccentric employer wants them to investigate spell X or write a dissertation on book Y. That should take care of a lot of busy work from the watchers and free them up for more important things.
This might be workable, but I'm worried about keeping our operatives too in the dark. Some things have to be classified for security, of course, but ignorance will lead to poorer quality work and more danger for those involved.

Also, the bigger an organization gets, the harder it is to be stealthy.
Also, make sure to get a hold of Faith and assign her to special observation.
Faith at this point hasn't gone completely off the deep end yet. In fact, this starts three years or so before she's called (which may never happen since while I can't necessarily stop the Master killing Buffy, I can bloody well try to keep Kendra from dying). She might actually be fairly sane at this point.

As per my standard policy for Potentials, she and any family she has will be informed and she will be provided with training and security as needed. I'll also want to give her a psychiatric evaluation and counselling if its warranted. And maybe I'll try to put her and Angel together. They seem to work well together, though that might be a result of certain shared experiences that I hope will not take place this time around.

Speaking of which, I thought of a use for Angel- use him to test my field operatives. He's as dangerous a vampire as has ever lived. My final test for field operatives could be to track down Angel and then last thirty seconds in a fight against him (with bonus points if they actually take him down). :lol:
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by Purple »

The Romulan Republic wrote:This might be workable, but I'm worried about keeping our operatives too in the dark. Some things have to be classified for security, of course, but ignorance will lead to poorer quality work and more danger for those involved.

Also, the bigger an organization gets, the harder it is to be stealthy.
That's the beauty of having them be in the dark. The organization does not have to be stealthy. In fact we can be very much up front with our existence. The trick is keeping the people working for us ignorant not in regard to what they are doing but why they are doing it. We can easily masquerade this sort of thing as being just another group of rich cooks with cooky interests who happen to be willing to shell out money to scholars to get more stuff about those interests dug up. We'd be rich collectors buying off seemingly random historical objects or philanthropists handing out grants to universities doing research into the fields we like.

Basically think of those Christian universities in america that are funding serious research in an effort to prove creationism or find evidence of the great flood. We'd fit right in.

Faith at this point hasn't gone completely off the deep end yet. In fact, this starts three years or so before she's called (which may never happen since while I can't necessarily stop the Master killing Buffy, I can bloody well try to keep Kendra from dying). She might actually be fairly sane at this point.
All the more reason to keep track of her and call her up as soon as possible. As far as I am concerned the whole one slayer at a time thing is not a good idea anyway and we should dispense with it if at all possible. We need them to work together or at least be a functional backup at the moment things go badly, not god knows how long later.


Speaking of that though I am not sure that all the changes you want to make to the timeline are a good idea. We know how those events transpired and we know that Buffy got through them and won and became stronger for it. That last bit in particular is very important. She needs those challenges in order to grow. Both her and her team. No amount of training we can provide is going to be a good replacement for those experiences. So I feel that when ever possible we should allow the timeline to take its natural course at least for the first few seasons. We need Buffy to fight those battles so that later she can be strong enough to fight the battles we can't prevent.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Buffy also ended up a hardened, bitter, and at times suicidal person and made some bad calls because of it.

But I agree that we don't want her to be helpless and inexperienced. And I'm not planning to keep her out of things entirely. I'm planning to keep her in the loop, provide support when needed, and then let her do as she sees fit unless I feel she's royally screwed up or is about to.

And like I said, one at least of Buffy's defining experiences we cannot avoid. Prophecy clearly dictates that she will fight the Master and die (unless she's already died at that point and someone else is the Slayer- I don't think the prophecy ever mentioned Buffy by name as opposed to just the Slayer).

Edit: But I must point out that Faith will not be a second Slayer unless she is also called in this reality. I don't intend to let Kendra die.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by Purple »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Edit: But I must point out that Faith will not be a second Slayer unless she is also called in this reality. I don't intend to let Kendra die.
I do not quite remember how the whole mechanism works. But is there no way we can call them all up at once? It would certainly be good to have multiple slayers running around. And even if not, I think we'd want those girls to get some sort of field experience so that if and when they are called up they can jump right in. Might also give Buffy a bit of a boost knowing she ain't alone in this.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

There is a way to turn all the Potentials into Slayers at once. The way Buffy and Willow used in the finale. Get the scythe and have someone perform the necessary magic. Of course, this also forces a lot of people to be Slayers against their will, some of whom (like that crazy one in Angel) really shouldn't have extra powers.

And I fully intend to try to recruit Potentials into the Council and deploy them in the field once they're old enough and suitably trained.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Here's an obvious question that hasn't been considered, what happens if right after we're dropped off, we just grab a pistol and shoot ourselves in the head, thereby negating the entire scenario? There seems to be no motivation to stay in the Buffy-verse, just because.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I suppose that's a valid option according to the terms of the scenario as I described it, although its rather lame and not in the spirit of the thread.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Well, we'll call that Plan B in case the Watchers decide to interrogate us or we're sent to a Hell dimension for 20 years in the span of a day. Death is preferable to a fate worse than death.

Though, here's an even more interesting question. Do we continue on if we're made into a vampire? Are we now a vampire version of our self, or are we thrust out of the scenario, with all our memories, plans, and recollections of Angel and Buffy episodes lodged into a newly born vampire's brain? And if that's the case, is this vampire version of ourselves constrained by Q to still try and further the goals of the Buffy-verse?

Different scenario, if we die, by whatever means, what happens if someone like Willow brings us back? Are we wrenched out of our normal lives and forced to live in the Buffy-verse, for good?
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

If a vampire, I'm inclined to say that's it. A vampire is not the living person. It has the memories, but no soul. It is effectively a corpse possessed by a demon. That meets the its over if you die bit.

And let's just say that, for the purposes of this scenario, you cannot be resurrected. You die, the scenario's done. Besides, resurrection is fucking rare magic anyway.

Though I suppose you could just say "Don't fucking resurrect me again" and shoot yourself.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

Just covering the bases, the Buffy-verse allows for some interesting possibilities.

Well, if that's the case, and I'm not actually possessing my vampire body, I give the Council carte blanche to treat it as they wish if I get turned, as any useful intelligence they get will be beneficial to them, and they can be relatively medieval to a soulless creature who thinks of humans as 'Happy Meals with legs'. Fortunately, the Watcher mindset already views vampires this way.


Now, going onto Purple's point about not interfering with Buffy, as she wins and stops a lot of apocalypses along the way. She does do that, but there's quite a sizable body count. This is why I plan on cleaning out Sunnydale. I don't care how charming and funny Spike, vampire cowboys, or the demon Sweet are, I want them all dead so that Sunnydale doesn't need to commission the construction of a 13th graveyard.

One thing that might be of interest is to buy up the vinyard where the scythe is, and have a Watcher archaeological expedition sent there. Buffy getting this thing after she defeats the Master will be of great help to us in the future. Why after the Master? Because I'm worried that she might lose against him, and I don't want for the Master to have it. If Buffy comes back somehow, then she can steamroll through the upcoming threats over the next decade. If not, Kendra is loyal, and having this scythe will ensure her survival.

Another task will be a diplomatic mission to the Guardians, asking them to join us, or at least align with us, as this is the end of the 20th century, beginning of the 21st, and women Watchers are rather standard. If however, they refuse, we can at least try and keep open relations with this splinter group, and let them know we do not consider them a threat. After all, we already have the scythe.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote:Just covering the bases, the Buffy-verse allows for some interesting possibilities.
Indeed.
Well, if that's the case, and I'm not actually possessing my vampire body, I give the Council carte blanche to treat it as they wish if I get turned, as any useful intelligence they get will be beneficial to them, and they can be relatively medieval to a soulless creature who thinks of humans as 'Happy Meals with legs'. Fortunately, the Watcher mindset already views vampires this way.
We'll have to get them to break that habit when it comes Angel.
Now, going onto Purple's point about not interfering with Buffy, as she wins and stops a lot of apocalypses along the way. She does do that, but there's quite a sizable body count. This is why I plan on cleaning out Sunnydale. I don't care how charming and funny Spike, vampire cowboys, or the demon Sweet are, I want them all dead so that Sunnydale doesn't need to commission the construction of a 13th graveyard.
Didn't they actually say in the show that it had upwards of thirty cemeteries? For a town with something like 30,000 people?
One thing that might be of interest is to buy up the vinyard where the scythe is, and have a Watcher archaeological expedition sent there.
The scythe was originally at a monastery or something until Caleb nabbed it, right? And can only be removed from the stone holding it by the Slayer.
Buffy getting this thing after she defeats the Master will be of great help to us in the future. Why after the Master? Because I'm worried that she might lose against him, and I don't want for the Master to have it. If Buffy comes back somehow, then she can steamroll through the upcoming threats over the next decade. If not, Kendra is loyal, and having this scythe will ensure her survival.
Its a deadly weapon, that's for certain. It absolutely must be kept out of the wrong hands.
Another task will be a diplomatic mission to the Guardians, asking them to join us, or at least align with us, as this is the end of the 20th century, beginning of the 21st, and women Watchers are rather standard. If however, they refuse, we can at least try and keep open relations with this splinter group, and let them know we do not consider them a threat. After all, we already have the scythe.
Interesting point- would they let you take the scythe?

Also, we need to get our researchers looking at ways to mitigate Jasmine's mind control and ways to fix Angel's curse problem. For the former, wasn't it Jasmine's appearance that entranced people? If so, we just need a way to kill her without looking at her.

If all else fails, put in a call to Riley's people and ask them to fire a missile at her location, though that's asking for a lot of dead civilians. We'll call that the last resort.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

According to the wiki, Sunnydale was the resting place that the Guardians chose for the scythe. The First and Caleb had the Bringers excavate the thing for a couple weeks before even uncovering the thing.

Why the First or Caleb chose to uncover it in the first place, as it would only harm their goals, I have no idea, but they did so. This might be because the First's plan was to eliminate the Slayers, and by the time of Fray(the future slayer in the 23rd century from the comics), the Watchers and the Slayers are practically extinct, meaning that they succeeded by having Buffy and company activate all the slayers at once, ensuring that instead of a slayer dying at most, once a year, they wiped out all the slayers in one generation.

Of course, that takes away from the Chosen series finale theme of Buffy winning against evil.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

You could look at it as Buffy buying two to three hundred more years by keeping the First Evil from winning right then.

Regardless, though, the whole point of this exercise is to keep things from getting that fucked to begin with.

But Jasmine is the first priority.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by FaxModem1 »

If you really want to prevent Jasmine, stake Angel in the heart. Without him, Darla can't have her magical pregnancy, and without Connor and Cordelia, there's no Jasmine to be born.

The big problem with that is that it is possible for vampires to be brought back via ritual, requiring five vampires and a bunch of incantations, as shown in the season 1 finale of Angel.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

That and Angel is protected by prophecy. Same with Connor. At least, in so far as that is valid.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by Purple »

The Romulan Republic wrote:There is a way to turn all the Potentials into Slayers at once. The way Buffy and Willow used in the finale. Get the scythe and have someone perform the necessary magic. Of course, this also forces a lot of people to be Slayers against their will, some of whom (like that crazy one in Angel) really shouldn't have extra powers.

And I fully intend to try to recruit Potentials into the Council and deploy them in the field once they're old enough and suitably trained.
Do we really need to give them that much of a choice though? I think saving the world sort of wins out in the context of duty vs personal freedom. Really what I think we should do is make sure that we make them an offer they can't refuse.

We should set up a system where everyone is immediately converted into slayers but where the job of slayer is a well payed and happy destiny. The girls and their families are cared for and given free lodging and basically get to live for free under our full care. And they get a decent salary to spend as pocket money as well. Make these girls feel special in a good way, and they won't mind not having a choice in the matter. And if any of them is really just not up to the task we can always put her to other uses like helping out with research or cleanup.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: You command the Watcher's Council.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I just hate the idea of throwing that at someone, especially against their will.

Besides, what about the rogues? Faith's not the only bad Slayer to have ever lived.

I suppose there's that powers suppressing drug the Council used for their despicable little test.
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