You command the Watcher's Council.

[Purple]

I just hate the idea of throwing that at someone, especially against their will.

Besides, what about the rogues? Faith's not the only bad Slayer to have ever lived.

I suppose there's that powers suppressing drug the Council used for their despicable little test.

If they go rogue they die. It's as simple as that. Being nice is nice and all but ultimately the faith of the world is more important than our moral purity. We give them everything, care, money, teaching and all we ask in return is that they uphold their duties as superheroes. If they can't do that we'll find them a job that is less risky but still helpful. But if they flat out rebel than it is our duty to terminate them lest they cause evil to the world.

[Tribble]

With regards to the prophecy of the Slayer vs the Master, wasn't a lot of the problems later on due to Buffy surviving the encounter and a second slayer being activated while the she was still alive? I'm quite a bit rusty on Buffy lore lol

[Purple]

Just how old is Faith going to be in this scenario anyway? Is she younger than Buffy?

[FaxModem1]

Yes, Faith is technically a year younger than Buffy. She just comes off as older due to her life experiences.

[Purple]

Yes, Faith is technically a year younger than Buffy. She just comes off as older due to her life experiences.

So what does that make her at the point we enter the timeline?

[FaxModem1]

Depends on if we accept her backstory from the novel Go Ask Malice. She's growing up in the foster system, exposed to a lot of bad boyfriends, until she finally gets some family in her life from the Watcher Diana Dormer, who will be killed by the vampire Kakistos in a year or two after we take over the Council if nothing in the timeline changes.

[Purple]

I am asking mainly because I see potential in her. She is not as attached to people as Buffy and thus more willing to be ruthless. A quality which will come in handy for what I have in mind. She and her watcher need to be brought to me immediately. When the potentials are all drafted as by my plan she is to be the one in charge of taking care of those that go rogue.

[FaxModem1]

That....might be a bad idea. Wolfram and Hart thought the same way, using Faith as a hitman on a job against Angel, and she took the job, then decided to beat up the lawyers who hired her, as she just wanted their money.

[Purple]

That....might be a bad idea. Wolfram and Hart thought the same way, using Faith as a hitman on a job against Angel, and she took the job, then decided to beat up the lawyers who hired her, as she just wanted their money.

That's why we intercept her before her watcher dies and make sure to keep her alive and give their relationship time to prosper. Ideally we'd want to mold her to see her watcher as a mother figure and the council it self (and me in particular) as extended family. That would prevent her from becoming such a mercenary and mold her into a fiercely loyal warrior for our side.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, Faith is technically a year younger than Buffy. She just comes off as older due to her life experiences.

So what does that make her at the point we enter the timeline?

Fourteenish, I believe. Buffy had probably just turned sixteen at the start of season one. She turns seventeen mid-way through season two which might make her fifteen at the start of season one, but season one was a short season and there's no mention of her birthday. She'd been a Slayer for a while at that point, so she was probably fifteen when called.

And yeah, hitman Faith is not someone we want to deal with. Sure, Purple's plan might work out, but if things go badly we could end up with Faith the lunatic again.

Also, Tribble, as I recall, the main consequences of Buffy surviving were as follows:

1. Kendra was called. She briefly mistook Buffy for a vampire and fought her but they later became friends and allies.

2. Kendra died, meaning Faith was called. She went off the deep end due to various factors (including losing her Watcher, accidentally killing a human in battle, and envy of Buffy), but she was eventually rehabilitated by Angel and became a useful ally.

Also, incidentally, no new Slayer was called when Buffy died a second time. This suggests that her death will no longer have that effect.

[Purple]

And yeah, hitman Faith is not someone we want to deal with. Sure, Purple's plan might work out, but if things go badly we could end up with Faith the lunatic again.

If things go badly we have her where we can keep a very close eye on her. Manipulation is the name of the game here.

[FaxModem1]

Manipulation is not really required, unless you think giving her a good home with a caring guardian, such as this Diana Dormer, who can provide her a place to sleep, food to eat, proper instruction, and a feeling of belonging counts as manipulation. If she gets called, sure she could kick the crap out of evil, but if not, we can see if she wants to join the Watchers.

Watchers can, and do, have parental bonds with their slayers, I see that as a positive, not a negative.

[The Romulan Republic]

Both Buffy and Faith (deep down) are basically well-intentioned people. They make mistakes and do some horrible things (at least partly because of circumstances I hope to change), but they more or less want to and try to do the right thing. So by and large you don't have to manipulate them to do what's right and you're better off not trying.

For one thing, if you try to boss them around or manipulating them, they'll resist. This is true of both Buffy and Faith.

Hence my approach of simply telling them what's going on, letting them do as they see fit, and only stepping in when necessary.

Kendra, on the other hand, probably would take orders willingly because that's what she's been trained to do. She was raised by a Watcher. You could quite legitimately call it brainwashing and robbing her of a normal life, but she's probably the closest to being a model Slayer by the standards of the Council.

[Majin Gojira]

Yes, Faith is technically a year younger than Buffy. She just comes off as older due to her life experiences.

So what does that make her at the point we enter the timeline?

Fourteenish, I believe. Buffy had probably just turned sixteen at the start of season one. She turns seventeen mid-way through season two which might make her fifteen at the start of season one, but season one was a short season and there's no mention of her birthday. She'd been a Slayer for a while at that point, so she was probably fifteen when called.

That's making an assumption about the age being set when a slayer is called, and that's not something that really should be made without considering Chosen and all the slayers called in that instance -- and the age range of them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not at all. Presuming Faith is a year younger than Buffy, the math works based on stuff in the show.

Edit: If its a question of weather Faith is a year younger than Buffy, perhaps FaxModem1 could provide a source?

[FaxModem1]

The big issue is that Faith was never given the Cruciamentum, by Wesley or Giles, while she was in Sunnydale, meaning that if she was old enough, she would have been tested, and probably have given Buffy a heads up about it, or left their company a lot sooner due to what it is. This makes Faith younger than Buffy.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I want to ask is weather its wise for the Council to have an HQ in a fucking big building in the middle of a city. Not only is that a very obvious target, it pretty much ensures an assault on the place will result in civilian casualties and high publicity. I suppose that's a deterrent to enemies who want to keep a low profile, but is it worth it?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm thinking of the First Evil's forces bombing the place and Wolfram and Hart's space weaponry and how the fact that Wolfram and Hart's access to mass memory alteration might make them willing to do something as high profile as blast my HQ from orbit when I try to take them out.

[FaxModem1]

The First and Wolfram and Hart are clearly opposed to each other, as WR&H gave the Scooby Gang through Angel a means to destroy the First's army, so the two of them collaborating together would be improbable.

As for your big question about Headquarters, that might just be a necessary evil, due to being a multinational organization that monitors and patrols major cities across the globe. Otherwise, the logistics of keeping in touch with those in power, influencing them, monitoring the evil in cities, and fighting them, becomes much more difficult if everyone has to take a two hour flight just to get anywhere near a city of power for fear of being hit.

Now, as for WR&H's satellite weapon, having a 1990s, early 2000 version of wikileaks or whatever expose to the world that a law firm has this, along with their other dirty laundry, would probably be the best way to go. 'Follow the money', as it were, making all non-demonic customers distance themselves due to being associated would be rather toxic to their careers. Though, this would rather be like taking down the Koch Brothers, possible, but would require a significant amount of resources and effort. Breaking the Masquerade and letting people know there are goddamn vampires and demons controlling things behind the scenes might do wonders.

[The Romulan Republic]

I wasn't suggesting a collaboration but discussing how either of them could launch a major attack. Though frankly I think they'd ally with anyone who could advance their interests at the time.

Edit: As for needing an HQ in a city to coordinate, I don't know. You may need a large facility to coordinate things, but if we have the money, why not set up a base (or better yet, multiple bases) somewhere a bit more remote? I'm not talking about Antarctica or anything, just somewhere not surrounded by civilians.

It might be a bit inconvenient for visitors, but any visitors from far away are likely to come by either plane (and airports are sometimes outside or on the edge of major cities) or by magic (in which case it may not matter).

[FaxModem1]

Also, better to hide in plain sight as a research institute or private library organization than establishing what look like military or terrorist bases in the boonies. There's no indication whatsoever that WR&H have any way to know where the Watchers are, and the only time there is any sort of contact is after the destruction of the Watchers Council, wherein the less scrupulous of the Council have defected over to the law firm. If you want to establish a secure fortress site for all the dangerous items, books, and archives, that's probably a good idea, but I see no real reason to draw attention to ourselves by having us establish bases separate from everyone else, almost as if we were some sort of international terrorist organization out to do mischief in other countries.

Teleportation also isn't a feasible means of travel for Watchers, as they seem to require airplane, bus, train, and car travel, just as much as everyone else, so commutes are a factor in business dealings.

[Purple]

Manipulation is not really required, unless you think giving her a good home with a caring guardian, such as this Diana Dormer, who can provide her a place to sleep, food to eat, proper instruction, and a feeling of belonging counts as manipulation.

Of course it counts. Manipulation is anything you do with an ulterior motive. And here the motive is not to make her happy but to manipulate her into becoming the kind of person we can count on and use.

[The Romulan Republic]

Also, better to hide in plain sight as a research institute or private library organization than establishing what look like military or terrorist bases in the boonies.

Either approach has its problems. On the whole, though, I'd rather keep out of a city.

There's no indication whatsoever that WR&H have any way to know where the Watchers are, and the only time there is any sort of contact is after the destruction of the Watchers Council, wherein the less scrupulous of the Council have defected over to the law firm.

At the very least, Wolfram and Hart knew what a Slayer was as of season one of Angel. And with their assets I don't really doubt they could find out a lot if they want to.

If you want to establish a secure fortress site for all the dangerous items, books, and archives, that's probably a good idea, but I see no real reason to draw attention to ourselves by having us establish bases separate from everyone else, almost as if we were some sort of international terrorist organization out to do mischief in other countries.

A lot of the Watchers seem like rich English gentleman types. Perhaps some of them have nice big mansions/estates in the country that we can use to have some isolation without being overtly suspicious.

Teleportation also isn't a feasible means of travel for Watchers, as they seem to require airplane, bus, train, and car travel, just as much as everyone else, so commutes are a factor in business dealings.

I wonder if the Watchers have ever had access to a witch as strong as Willow before. That might open up some magical options. Not for every routine trip necessarily, but at the very least for emergencies.

[FaxModem1]

Here's a unique idea, since we're going to be taking over Apple and Google. What if we have a team of preachers, priests, or holy men work on-site at the factory, blessing every cell phone, computer and technological wonder. That way, if they're bought by a demonic force, they literally cannot use them without being burned.

[The Romulan Republic]

Those are massive companies. The products they produce number in the millions if not billions. Is blessing them all going to be practical?

I also wonder if commercializing/industrializing the power of religion in that way would dilute or negate it, but I don't know if it would work that way in this setting. Just a thought.

Still, I kind of feel like if that were practical, someone would have done it.