Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

User avatar
Balrog
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2258
Joined: 2002-12-29 09:29pm
Location: Fortress of Angband

Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Balrog »

As in the Age of Ultron movie, except instead of taking on an enraged/mind-controlled Hulk in the middle of a busy nondescript African city it's a Greater Daemon of Khrone who has found a way out of the Warp and into our realm because reasons. Tony obviously must destroy the daemon before it levels the city, while the daemon is out on an errand to get more SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
User avatar
Kojiro
Jedi Master
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2005-05-31 06:04pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Kojiro »

It's hard to say how durable the Hulkbuster really is, but that's the qualifier. If the thirster can damage it then Stark will quickly find out that it is, unlike Hulk, a supremely skilled fighter that won't just take a beating.

That said, there's all sorts of variances in demons and we don't really know how tough the HB is. 'Able to be damaged by Hulk' encompasses an awful lot.
Dragon Clan Veritech
User avatar
Bedlam
Jedi Master
Posts: 1495
Joined: 2006-09-23 11:12am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Bedlam »

Well the demon (depending on it's preference) will rather than just rampage through the city, specifically try to massacre as many civilians as possible (although a few of them do have a honour thing where they'd prefer to kill the worthy opponent first).

Also if Tony has the satellite with the spare parts / upgrades to fix the armour mid battle or not, although I wouldn't expect it to last long once the demon figures out what it does.
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by GuppyShark »

Additionally, Bloodthirsters have not demonstrated that they are anywhere near as resilient as the Hulk.

Even ignoring game mechanics (where a single cannon ball can take them off), they are routinely defeated by medieval-technology armies.

For example, Prince Tyrion has defeated multiple Bloodthirsters in the fluff. He rides a horse into battle. He has a flaming sword that couldn't be longer than Hulkbuster's forearm. I think even repulsor blasts would defeat the Bloodthirster, let alone the superior might and durability of the Hulkbuster suit.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by bilateralrope »

GuppyShark wrote:For example, Prince Tyrion has defeated multiple Bloodthirsters in the fluff. He rides a horse into battle. He has a flaming sword that couldn't be longer than Hulkbuster's forearm. I think even repulsor blasts would defeat the Bloodthirster, let alone the superior might and durability of the Hulkbuster suit.
Which raises the obvious question: Is Balrog asking about a Warhammer Fantasy or a Warhammer 40k Bloodthirster ?

Because my understanding is that they are separate universes. So we can't use things that happen in one to make conclusions about the other.
User avatar
Kojiro
Jedi Master
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2005-05-31 06:04pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Kojiro »

GuppyShark wrote:Even ignoring game mechanics (where a single cannon ball can take them off), they are routinely defeated by medieval-technology armies.
This is why we need to differentiate between the type of Bloodthirster. 40k Bloodthirsters are considerably tougher than their WHFB counterparts, able to sustain multiple lascannon hits. They are flat out immune to bolter fire. They are a whole other beast that can tear dreadnoughts limb from limb and shrug off battle cannon hits.
Dragon Clan Veritech
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by GuppyShark »

1) It's pretty clear they're the same universe. There's a fricking Grey Knight in the Warhammer fluff.
2) Game mechanics are not considered canon here.
User avatar
Kojiro
Jedi Master
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2005-05-31 06:04pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Kojiro »

You do remember it was a bloodthirster that nearly beat Sanguinius? That fought against Lorgar? These are creatures who can go toe to toe with primarchs.
Dragon Clan Veritech
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by GuppyShark »

I do remember Sanguinius breaking a Bloodthirster's spine on his knee to prove a point as the Ultimate Gate Shut. I don't know who Lorgar is. Maybe primarchs are not a league above Avengers?
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Lorgar was Primarch of the Word Bearers and the one responsible for Horus falling to chaos, the bastard.

As for Primarchs being a similar level to Avengers, any Primarch will beat any Avenger apart from Hulk and Thor. And the stronger Primarchs? I'd still bet on them beating Thor.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Kojiro
Jedi Master
Posts: 1399
Joined: 2005-05-31 06:04pm
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Kojiro »

Primarchs have literally torn 40k tanks apart with their bare hands in the fluff. If this were a fight between a primarch and the Hulkbuster I would think it was decidedly in the primarchs favour.

There's just no way 40k bloodthirsters can be as squishy as their FB counterparts. The universe they inhabit and the weapons they face necessitate them being more durable to be considered threats. A normal space marine wouldn't die to an old world cannonball yet I assure you a bloodthirster is considerably more durable than that.
Dragon Clan Veritech
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12211
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Lord Revan »

actually the Horus heresy book might partially explain the difference, there is seemed that melee weapons and fire were more effective against daemons then firearms due to the cermonial importance of those things.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Elheru Aran »

In which case it may be possible for Tony to grapple the thing. It's got some more surfaces he can grab-- horns, wings, tail, fancy armour.

Can his Iron Man suit withstand a magical axe/sword/whip, though?
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
Replicant
Padawan Learner
Posts: 227
Joined: 2012-10-03 11:11am

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Replicant »

Elheru Aran wrote:In which case it may be possible for Tony to grapple the thing. It's got some more surfaces he can grab-- horns, wings, tail, fancy armour.

Can his Iron Man suit withstand a magical axe/sword/whip, though?
Iron Man's armor is not like Supermans skin. It has no special weakness to magic. So it would stand up as well as any other object of equal hardness. The Hulkbuster suit was able to handle several punches from an enraged Hulk.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12211
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Lord Revan »

Replicant wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:In which case it may be possible for Tony to grapple the thing. It's got some more surfaces he can grab-- horns, wings, tail, fancy armour.

Can his Iron Man suit withstand a magical axe/sword/whip, though?
Iron Man's armor is not like Supermans skin. It has no special weakness to magic. So it would stand up as well as any other object of equal hardness. The Hulkbuster suit was able to handle several punches from an enraged Hulk.
that said the weapons of daemon are not physical matter but like the daemon itself are "magic"(read:warp energy) given form and thus depending on the local ambient warp presence a Bloodthirster could cleave thru the Hulkbuster like it was made of paper or not even scratch the paint on the suit. the strength and durability of a daemon isn't something that's easily pinned down as it quite literally doesn't follow the laws of physics

Though Iron Man's status as a "hero" might give him an edge, also if he makes a challenge a greater daemon of Khorne can't just ignore him, as one thing is always consistent about Khorne and it's that he hates cowards with intensity that makes even the strongest hate of mortals pales in comparisson and a warrior that ignores a challenge is a coward in the eyes of the Blood god.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Then again, given Tony's previous hedonism, the Bloodthirster might see him as a Champion of Slaanesh and fight all the harder to kill him. More to the point, it's possible that Khorne might see Tony that way and help the Bloodthirster win.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by GuppyShark »

Lord Revan wrote:that said the weapons of daemon are not physical matter but like the daemon itself are "magic"(read:warp energy) given form and thus depending on the local ambient warp presence a Bloodthirster could cleave thru the Hulkbuster like it was made of paper or not even scratch the paint on the suit. the strength and durability of a daemon isn't something that's easily pinned down as it quite literally doesn't follow the laws of physics
Which means our hypothetical daemon has the damage output of an angry kitten then, as there's no background warp radiation to power him up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But that's as lame as "The Jedi lose because there's no Force in this universe."

It does explain the vast gulf of difference between the tank-shredding daemons and the ones getting brought down by medieval armies though. The Warhammer World had a magical vortex getting rid of all that warp energy.
User avatar
Balrog
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2258
Joined: 2002-12-29 09:29pm
Location: Fortress of Angband

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Balrog »

Yeah meant to specify it's a 40K Bloodthirster, with all the strengths and weaknesses you would expect of a "generic" daemon (or as generic as you can get with a denizen of the Warp).
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Simon_Jester »

Kojiro wrote:Primarchs have literally torn 40k tanks apart with their bare hands in the fluff. If this were a fight between a primarch and the Hulkbuster I would think it was decidedly in the primarchs favour.
Agreed. Then again, in a fight between a bloodthirster and a primarch the primarch pretty much invariably wins. Sometimes easily, sometimes not so easily... there is reason to think that not all bloodthirsters are created equal, and that some daemons of the same basic 'type' are inherently older and stronger and bigger than the 'rank and file' of that 'type.'
There's just no way 40k bloodthirsters can be as squishy as their FB counterparts. The universe they inhabit and the weapons they face necessitate them being more durable to be considered threats. A normal space marine wouldn't die to an old world cannonball...
That's in his armor, I assume?
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
GuppyShark
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2829
Joined: 2005-03-13 06:52am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by GuppyShark »

I'm unfamiliar with 40k in general and 30k moreso - my last read of a Warhammer 40,000 army book was in 2nd Edition.

Does anyone have examples of a bloodthirster demonstrating strength or endurance that is objectively greater than that of the Hulk & Hulkbuster? So far the evidence is all relative (Bloodthirster vs Primarch, Hulk vs Hulkbuster). Without a common yardstick, it's an unresolvable comparison.
Block
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2333
Joined: 2007-08-06 02:36pm

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Block »

Well, they can supposedly cleave a MBT in half with a single blow from their axe. That would be hulkish strength no?
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Simon_Jester »

Honestly, yes. You'd have to hand the movieverse Hulk a really good axe to chop a tank in half, I think. That, or get him really mad.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Elheru Aran »

Bloodthirsters have some fun stuff attested to them, but in general most of the fluff is just 'these guys are awesome killmachines'.

That said, they have size and possibly strength on the Hulkbuster, and if they have a decent connection to the Warp, it'll be very hard for Tony to hurt it without sanctified weaponry.

Perhaps if he flies it into a church and dunks it into the baptistry...
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
InsaneTD
Jedi Knight
Posts: 667
Joined: 2010-07-13 12:10am
Location: South Australia

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by InsaneTD »

He's give it a minor burn, most churches wouldn't have enough holy water to do more but annoy it.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: Hulkbuster Iron Man vs Greater Daemon of Khorne

Post by Batman »

Isn't the Ganges holy in Hinduism? Yes, quite a trip if they start out in New York, but a hell of a lot of holy water :)
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Post Reply