Avengers 2 (Spoilers)

[Gandalf]

I saw this last night and was unimpressed.

Avengers 2 feels like two decent stories crammed into one bloated mess. The Ultron story is fundamentally decent, as is the Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch one. Unfortunately to make one big film, each side of the story just crams together poorly.

The film opens with a raid on German Hydra guy’s base in Not Slovakia. In this base is the Loki-Poki stick from Avengers, and Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch. Quicksilver runs around and slows the Avengers’ advance, and Scarlet Witch gives Iron Man a vision of everyone dying because he didn't protect them enough. Q/SW get away, and the Avengers get the Loki-Totally Not a Dick Metaphor Stick. He scans it, finds out that it’s actually a computer with an AI, and decides to plug it into his ongoing Ultron project. But apparently the evil spear of evil when plugged into a computer made an evil AI, and thus the plot is set in motion. Ultron becomes sentient, kills Jarvis, and decides the only way to have world peace is to wipe out humanity. He works out that inside that computer Iron Man found is an Infinity Gem, and it will make him way powerful. Can the Avengers stop him?

The whole film feels like a retread of the first one, but with twice the cast. The best thing I can say about it is the acting, especially Hawkeye, who carries a lot of the film and basically becomes the “team dad.” The film tries in an incredibly hamhanded way to engage with the theme of family and legacy, but I’ll post about that later. Overall I think the plan was to basically repeat everything that made Avengers 1 profitable, but to insert more potentially spinoffable characters played by cheaper actors in case contracts start running out and some actors can’t come back, but in an attempt to give everyone some screentime, the runtime blows out. Unfortunately because the first film worked well without having any great depth, the attempts to insert it here just brought it all down.

There's some great moments, but it's just a great big mess.

[Kojiro]

There's some great moments, but it's just a great big mess.

Sad but true.

It seems like the film more...a visual effects piece? There was story but mostly it felt added on. I'm not sure, I only saw it an hour ago and I can only really say a few moments made any impression, even though I remember all of it.

Also if Ultron didn't back back himself up or leave one god damn bot out of the fight, safe he's a staggeringly large moron.

I also think there just felt like far, far too much plot demands it and plot armour.

[ray245]

I think Avengers 2 have cemented my views on Joss Whedon as a movie director. He isn't good at making the movie itself feel cinematic despite having big set-action piece. Everything just feels like a big-budget version of a TV series finale as opposed to a movie.

[Broomstick]

Hmmm... think maybe I'll wait for it on Netflix...

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm going to take the criticisms with a grain of salt.

People had huge expectations for this film. Plus there is probably the usual knee-jerk "the sequel is worse" attitude. Frankly, it would be a wonder if this film didn't have a lot of detractors.

I'll see it and then judge it.

[Alkaloid]

Well, I liked it more than the Winter Soldier, but I also thought the Winter Soldier was a steaming pile, so...

Jeremy Renner was brilliant. They put as much characterisation into Hawkeye in a few scenes as the big 3 got across their respective movies. He, James Spader and Paul Bettany carried a lot of the acting, tagging in Downey Jr, Ruffalo and Johanssen from time to time, but god the action scenes were just a chaotic mess.

The whole film feels like a retread of the first one, but with twice the cast.

Pretty much this. Right down to refilming the whole "super slo mo Cap and Thor fighting" scene but with the whole damn cast. SLJ, Cobie Smulders, Stellan Skarsgard and Don Cheadle could have not been in the film and it would have lost nothing.

[Broomstick]

I'm going to take the criticisms with a grain of salt.

Normally I'd just say screw it, go for the ride on the popcorn movie but my finances are too stretched for that right now. Which is the other reason I'm waiting for Netflix. Or my library. Whichever gets it first.

[The Romulan Republic]

Fair enough.

I just like to give films the benefit of the doubt unless I have a really strong reason not to.

Experience has taught me that Whedon's work is about one third awesome, one third mediocre, and one third horse shit.

[Crown]

I was bored during large parts of it. It will gross $1 billion regardless.

[Adam Reynolds]

The problem with Joss Whedon is that he is very good at one specific thing, creating memorable character interactions and dialog in an ensemble piece. This is what made Buffy and Firefly/Serenity so beloved as well as the first Avengers. The problem, as more than one person noted with Avengers, is that the plotting in his films is often problematic and shows signs of not being very well thought out. This was also true with Serenity(which I liked heavily overall) in which Malcolm Reynolds had a plan that was incredibly stupid and yet worked nearly perfectly because it allowed the story to progress.

A more important question, was the Star Wars trailer in front of it the same one we already saw?

[Crown]

A more important question, was the Star Wars trailer in front of it the same one we already saw?

Nope

[mr friendly guy]

Well I enjoyed it, but I was expecting a pop corn movie anyway. Whedon does nice dialogue.

Ultron is somewhat different from the comics in the sense he has a lot of human motivations so has a personality, rather than just an evil robot. The need for him to create a human type body seemed contrived, but then how else would they justify the creation of the Vision.

There were parts which I guess were necessary but I didn't particularly enjoy, such as when Scarlet Witch shows Black Widow her vision.

********************************
Now bring on Thanos already (since he appeared at the end again).

[GuppyShark]

Loved it, thought it was better than the last one.

[Iroscato]

Loved it, thought it was better than the last one.

Agreed. I just came back from it. I can understand people's problems with it, but personally I think they did a damn good job juggling that many balls in the air. Was it over the top, crammed to overflowing, and disjointed? Absolutely, but I still enjoyed myself immensely

[fgalkin]

The pacing was sluggish, but that is forgivable, given that the movie was basically a plot hook for something like five different storylines, seamlessly introduced four new characters and a bunch of old ones, broke up and re-assembed the Avengers, all in two and a half hours. There was tons of exposition, but basically no filler- every scene was significant in some way.

It was not necessarily a good or entertaining movie, but an impressive one from a storytelling perspective nonetheless.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Iroscato]

Apparently the original cut was around three hours (!) long, and there are strong rumours of an extended cut for the home release a la LOTR. If that's the case, I can sympathise with the pacing issues with the film, and I'll certainly be watching the full edition when the time comes.

[Crazedwraith]

Just got back form it and i'm pretty pumped. Was it all I wanted? No. Did it hit the notes I thought it was going to hit? Not really. But by the end I really quite liked it. I'd avoided trailers and things. So I went in pretty blind aside from knowing Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Vision were it.

So my gripes Didn't show the team getting back together and especially didn't tie in well with IM3's end. I was hoping for an Avengers Assemble style get the band back together sequence. It hit the crowd running really fast and depended on really knowing your stuff from the previous film to follow. This was bad as I went with my folks who have seen no previous marvel films. So i was hoping for a slow start and set up for their sake. Only one new female Avenger and Nat's big subplot was the Banner romance. Urgh.

One last really minor gripe but I don't see how the hell Agents Of SHIELD are going to integrate this movie at all. With Fury turning up with a fricken helicarrier.

Stuff I've mixed feelings on; There was a really high action to plot quotient there. Not sure it was to the film's benefit. I noticed they were doing a shitload of collateral damage early on but then it became clearer after the hulk fight Stark was trying to clean up on that and prevent civillian deaths was a really big deal in the finale so that turned out to be big. They really tried to have at least a bit with everyone which was good but it ended up the film didn't know who or what it wad trying to be about. Loved the inclusion of War Machine and Falcon, not so sure about the New Avengers thing.

I really liked all Vision's scenes though. Especially the 'pick up the hammer = instant trust' tthing that really worked. And its nice for Paul Bettany to finally getting his face on screen after being there from the start from the MCU.

So yeah fun, fighty smashy superhero flick. Very flashy, very epic. Possibly more flashy and epic than the first one but doesn't pull it all together quite so well.

Oh and no Avengers Assemble at the end. Whedon you tease.

[Gandalf]

Apparently the original cut was around three hours (!) long, and there are strong rumours of an extended cut for the home release a la LOTR. If that's the case, I can sympathise with the pacing issues with the film, and I'll certainly be watching the full edition when the time comes.

If nothing else, I'd like to see a better resolution to Black Widow's "I'm a monster because I can't have children" discussion.

[Kojiro]

So my gripes Didn't show the team getting back together and especially didn't tie in well with IM3's end. I was hoping for an Avengers Assemble style get the band back together sequence.

This also for me- there was no build up just instant action for the sake of action. While I can appreciate the action (though I thought it was badly done by the Avengers- really just send in Thor and Hulk to clear the place unless you need the squishies there) the coming together thing is something I want to see. It was after all one of the defining moments in the first film when they do, indeed, assemble.

Only one new female Avenger and Nat's big subplot was the Banner romance. Urgh.

This I really expected more from Whedon on, especially given his stance of female depictions.

Loved the inclusion of War Machine and Falcon, not so sure about the New Avengers thing.

I would have liked to see Falcon show up with Warmachine actually. He felt oddly absent there.

I really liked all Vision's scenes though. Especially the 'pick up the hammer = instant trust' tthing that really worked. And its nice for Paul Bettany to finally getting his face on screen after being there from the start from the MCU.

I also rather liked that, one of the few really memorable moments. I also liked the discussion it prompted at the end. I actually thought that with Bettany coming on board we might see an appearance of his wife (Jennifer Connelly) as Betty Ross again. I guess the Hulk/Widow thing just does away with her?

Also maybe I missed it, but after Starks absurd decision to exit his suit in an enemy stronghold and go traipsing into the depths of it unarmed, why did Wanda not murder him when she found him?

[Iroscato]

Apparently the original cut was around three hours (!) long, and there are strong rumours of an extended cut for the home release a la LOTR. If that's the case, I can sympathise with the pacing issues with the film, and I'll certainly be watching the full edition when the time comes.

If nothing else, I'd like to see a better resolution to Black Widow's "I'm a monster because I can't have children" discussion.

I think that was meant to convey how the facility she was trained/broken at basically took away most of her humanity, and sterilisation was just a part of the whole shitty deal, rather than sterile=untermensch. But it could easily be taken the other way, I guess.

[streetad]

Yeah - for example they seemed to be using live human prisoners for target practice at one point.

I would also like to know what the deal is with Shield at the moment. We apparently have Coulson's group, Gonzales' group, and now a third faction answering directly to Fury with enough resources to run a Helicarrier...

[Enigma]

Yeah - for example they seemed to be using live human prisoners for target practice at one point.

I would also like to know what the deal is with Shield at the moment. We apparently have Coulson's group, Gonzales' group, and now a third faction answering directly to Fury with enough resources to run a Helicarrier...

Which helicarrier? Avengers 1 or CA:WS?

[Iroscato]

Yeah - for example they seemed to be using live human prisoners for target practice at one point.

I would also like to know what the deal is with Shield at the moment. We apparently have Coulson's group, Gonzales' group, and now a third faction answering directly to Fury with enough resources to run a Helicarrier...

Which helicarrier? Avengers 1 or CA:WS?

Avengers carrier. Made me squeal.

[Enigma]

Also, Hulk's freakout, was it SW's doing?

[J Ryan]

Also, Hulk's freakout, was it SW's doing?

Yes. She managed to get all the avengers apart from Iron Man and Hawkeye making them mostly go catatonic. Apart from the Hulk of course.