Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
And if they want to plunder, there are plenty of discontented little lords in the North Bolton wants wiped out.
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
In this scenario they aren't mercenaries Bolton hired as far as anyone knows. They're mercenaries Stannis hired to fight Roose whom Roose massacred same as the rest of Stannis's troops.Block wrote:That's a great way to never get mercenaries to work for you again. It's not necessary either. Pay them and they'll go looking for work elsewhere.Ralin wrote:Sellswords that aren't working for Roose Bolton are a direct threat to his authority, and one best dealt with while they're tired and drunk and surrounded by his troops.
There are only so many people in the North in the market for sellswords right now, and most of them really fucking hate the Boltons.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
You're assuming they want to remain in the North.Ralin wrote:In this scenario they aren't mercenaries Bolton hired as far as anyone knows. They're mercenaries Stannis hired to fight Roose whom Roose massacred same as the rest of Stannis's troops.Block wrote:That's a great way to never get mercenaries to work for you again. It's not necessary either. Pay them and they'll go looking for work elsewhere.Ralin wrote:Sellswords that aren't working for Roose Bolton are a direct threat to his authority, and one best dealt with while they're tired and drunk and surrounded by his troops.
There are only so many people in the North in the market for sellswords right now, and most of them really fucking hate the Boltons.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
With Stannis dead and heirless, the Stormlands will be up for grabs - plenty of employment opportunities down south.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
The North is a big place and winter has come. There are any number of ways heading south could be problematic enough to make them say "Fuck it" and look for things to do locally.
I mean hell, look at how they got snowed in on the way to Winterfell
I mean hell, look at how they got snowed in on the way to Winterfell
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
It is, historically, pretty rare for people that hire mercenaries and assassins to immediately turn on them like that. Not unheard of, but rare.Ralin wrote:Sellswords that aren't working for Roose Bolton are a direct threat to his authority, and one best dealt with while they're tired and drunk and surrounded by his troops.
Because the soldiers and assassins fight back, they can take a big bite out of your own loyal troops you used to kill them.
Because even your own loyal troops will wonder, "gee, what if he sends US to do some dirty work and WE become a liability." People will start deserting your service a lot more often.
Because, as noted, no one in their right mind will ever work for you again.
Because, ultimately, it's totally unnecessary. Once you stop paying mercenaries, they generally leave. Indeed, the hard part is usually keeping them from deserting too quickly before the war's over. And if you live in a rough, unpleasant countryside like the North of Westeros as winter's setting in... you are NOT going to have to worry about those mercenaries overstaying their welcome.
They're not a liability. They're not a threat. They're contractors who have far more interest in going home than they do in hanging around to give you a hard time.
By the same token, the odds are that very little campaigning can even happen now that winter's come. Even if the mercenaries do form an army under some northern leader and try something, they're likely to get crushed under a blizzard the same way Stannis almost did.Ralin wrote:The North is a big place and winter has come. There are any number of ways heading south could be problematic enough to make them say "Fuck it" and look for things to do locally.
I mean hell, look at how they got snowed in on the way to Winterfell
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
They have no tabor, no food, no nothing. North is also not known to posses any cities, big inns or stores where you could buy enough food for march south. Real life mercenaries in similar campaigns (like Thirty Years War) tended to just squeeze the food from population as needed, by murdering and pillaging if necessary (and often even if totally unnecessary, just for some extra gold). Indeed, some were so famous of doing so rulers tried to keep them as far away as possible.Simon_Jester wrote:Because, ultimately, it's totally unnecessary. Once you stop paying mercenaries, they generally leave. Indeed, the hard part is usually keeping them from deserting too quickly before the war's over. And if you live in a rough, unpleasant countryside like the North of Westeros as winter's setting in... you are NOT going to have to worry about those mercenaries overstaying their welcome.
What is Roose going to do, give them lots of food he doesn't really have to march South, pay them with money he doesn't have either, or let them pillage and make North hate him (plus get his Warden of the North title into question)? Though, yes, you do have a point killing them doesn't work for him that well too so convincing them to turn might be pyrrhic victory after all, and Stannis might have last laugh in the end.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
That is exactly what I expect him to do, nobody gives a damn about the small folk and the little Lords hate him anyway.Irbis wrote:or let them pillage and make North hate him (plus get his Warden of the North title into question)?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Doesn't exactly leave him much to rule over. Roose is evil and calculating, not the dark lord SauronThanas wrote:That is exactly what I expect him to do, nobody gives a damn about the small folk and the little Lords hate him anyway.Irbis wrote:or let them pillage and make North hate him (plus get his Warden of the North title into question)?
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Why doesn't it? The North is very large and the people hate him anyway. Might just as well reduce their power if it costs him nothing.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Because they are theoretically his vassals and letting (Southern) sellswords rampage across their lands means that can't send him taxes and troops and pushes them towards open rebellion against him? Which far as I can remember they yet doing.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Doesn't feudal contract explicitly say you get to be top dog if you happen to act in interests of people beneath you? Including protection? And if you don't, the very same people will quickly elect someone else to be top dog, who then proceeds to voice his disapproval to old one with business end of the sword? See both Baron Wars in England for one, not to mention dozens of other civil conflicts through medieval era.Thanas wrote:That is exactly what I expect him to do, nobody gives a damn about the small folk and the little Lords hate him anyway.
The North might reluctantly accepted Boltons as Starks are presumed dead and they were second most powerful house, one recognized by king at that, but they were treading on thin ice as it was, without their mercenaries rampaging unchecked.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
The vassals are not strong enough to challenge the Boltons, who are already in violation of the vassal contract and the most important religious law anyway.Irbis wrote:Doesn't feudal contract explicitly say you get to be top dog if you happen to act in interests of people beneath you? Including protection? And if you don't, the very same people will quickly elect someone else to be top dog, who then proceeds to voice his disapproval to old one with business end of the sword? See both Baron Wars in England for one, not to mention dozens of other civil conflicts through medieval era.Thanas wrote:That is exactly what I expect him to do, nobody gives a damn about the small folk and the little Lords hate him anyway.
The North might reluctantly accepted Boltons as Starks are presumed dead and they were second most powerful house, one recognized by king at that, but they were treading on thin ice as it was, without their mercenaries rampaging unchecked.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
What evidence is there that the Boltons are so much more powerful then the rest of the North that they don't have to worry about their new vassals? Roose is a monster, but he's a monster smart enough to not want to fight rebellions when he doesn't have to. He knows that if he gives them nothing but the stick he's ensuring the general revolt that has not yet happened.
By religious law do you mean the Red Wedding? Because I don't think Roose killing Robb Stark counts as violating guest right after his host opened fire on the Starks
By religious law do you mean the Red Wedding? Because I don't think Roose killing Robb Stark counts as violating guest right after his host opened fire on the Starks
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Indeed, but letting the mercenaries run rampant is quite common for the times anyway and keep in mind there are territories in open rebellion already he might steer them towards anyway.Ralin wrote:What evidence is there that the Boltons are so much more powerful then the rest of the North that they don't have to worry about their new vassals? Roose is a monster, but he's a monster smart enough to not want to fight rebellions when he doesn't have to. He knows that if he gives them nothing but the stick he's ensuring the general revolt that has not yet happened.
I think it does, and even if it did not he killed his sworn overlord after swearing loyalty to him. Sure, royal pardon and traitor and all that.By religious law do you mean the Red Wedding? Because I don't think Roose killing Robb Stark counts as violating guest right after his host opened fire on the Starks
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Maybe I missed it being posted, but that's Coldplay's special for Red Nose day:
Game of Thrones, The Musical
regarding Jon Snow: Spoiler
Game of Thrones, The Musical
regarding Jon Snow: Spoiler
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Amazon.de has 'Winds of Winter' available as of July, 14th, 2016
"In view of the circumstances, Britannia waives the rules."
"All you have to do is to look at Northern Ireland, [...] to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable." George Carlin
"We need to make gay people live in fear again! What ever happened to the traditional family values of persecution and lies?" - Darth Wong
"The closet got full and some homosexuals may have escaped onto the internet?"- Stormbringer
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Aaaargh. I thought it'd be out this year
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Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Sweet summer child.Raesene wrote:Amazon.de has 'Winds of Winter' available as of July, 14th, 2016
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Ian McShane is appearing in Season 6, role undisclosed (probably Randyll Tarly if you ask me, he seems a little too old for any one of the Greyjoy brothers). Or he's Aerys in some sort of flashback.
And looks like we might have eight seasons of GoT, though given what they've cut out from Season 4 and 5, they might have to invent some new padding to stretch things out to Season 8. http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/30/ga ... ht-seasonsIan McShane, best known for his terrifying turn as the foul-mouthed anti-hero of Deadwood, will be returning to HBO, by way of Westeros. According to Entertainment Weekly, McShane and his unsettling eyes have been cast in an undisclosed role for season six of Game of Thrones. McShane, who once had a career as a sexy crooner before trying his hand at playing sociopaths, will have “a relatively small amount of screen-time during the season, yet his character is of key importance.” The 72-year-old actor plays scary men of authority, and homocidal Santa Clauses, better than anyone else. We can't wait to see what he does, and who he kills.
http://www.vulture.com/2015/08/ian-mcsh ... son-6.html
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Aerys seems unlikely for McShane. I know that this is the TV thread, but Aerys died short of his 40th birthday in that continuity; even with the age inflation in the show that would be a stretch.
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I'm waiting as fast as I can.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Given GRRM hasn't even finished writing the series yet, I don't see any issues with going to eight seasons (or beyond?), given so much is still up in the air - at least so far as the audience knows.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
The show runners have the outline, RR Martin has talked with them on where plots are going. The problem is going eight seasons will involve some serious deviation from book material and they have demonstrated before in the past.... their fanfic writing skills are terrible.RogueIce wrote:Given GRRM hasn't even finished writing the series yet, I don't see any issues with going to eight seasons (or beyond?), given so much is still up in the air - at least so far as the audience knows.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
I hope he doesn't ham it up like he did in Pillars of the Earth.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 5 (TV ONLY)
Outlines and preliminary idea can change? I mean if HBO wants it to keep going, who's to say GRRM himself wouldn't think of ways to expand the plot? It's not like the story of ASoIF was engraved on stone tablets or anything, and I'm betting GRRM likes money as much as the next person, so...if he can get away with more books that'll no doubt be bestsellers - especially if the show keeps on being the hot property is now - who can say he won't do so?Mr Bean wrote:The show runners have the outline, RR Martin has talked with them on where plots are going. The problem is going eight seasons will involve some serious deviation from book material and they have demonstrated before in the past.... their fanfic writing skills are terrible.RogueIce wrote:Given GRRM hasn't even finished writing the series yet, I don't see any issues with going to eight seasons (or beyond?), given so much is still up in the air - at least so far as the audience knows.
That's putting aside of course subjective opinions on whether or not various story elements between the show and books worked or didn't work. This is the 'no books' thread so it's not like the entire audience is going to give a shit about when, where or why it deviates, so long as they think the show itself is still good.
Such as myself.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight