How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

Post Reply
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by FaxModem1 »

In the Lord of the Rings movies, Legolas is capable of some rather impossible things, either due to CGI or trick photography. How is he capable of this? As an example, in the Pass of Caradras scene, Legolas is walking on the snow, so either he is lighter than it, or is able to somehow bypass gravity and not have his weight force himself down. So, what's the reason for this? Are all elves capable of this, or is there a specific reason Legolas can bypass the rules of physics as he pleases?

The scene in question



Start around 1:50 to see his amazing ability.

So, what are the reasons for this?
Image
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Gandalf »

It's just a racial ability that's never really explained.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12211
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Lord Revan »

basically elves are magical, that particular scene Legolas of walking on top of the snown that humans are knee deep in, is in the books, Frodo even observes that Legolas isn't wearing boots but lighter shoes.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Batman »

It's not like they came up with this for the movie-in the same sequence in the book, Frodo notices that Legolas feet 'left little imprint on the snow'. Hey, at least in the movie he's actually wearing boots. :)
It's a fantasy setting so the real world rules of physics are already potentially optional for a lot of people, and Tolkien elves aren't exactly strangers to magic.
Last edited by Batman on 2015-04-09 07:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Borgholio »

Yeah, Elves are just supposed to be magically very sure on their feet.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Thanas »

Elves are more in sync with the earth, in some cases their magic directly affects the world they live in. Thus, due to this magical ability, I'd imagine the earth accommodates them whenever it can.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Batman »

Given they're highly magical creatures, Tolkien elves may have something akin to the D&D druid's Trackless Step ability (or for those of DSA turn of mind, a built-in always on 'Spurlos/Trittlos').
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Simon_Jester »

This also ties into their ability to make artifacts with magical properties (such as ropes that untie themselves when you need them to). It's not that they ritually chant spells when making the rope as such, it's that the inherent grace and divine aura of elves is such that they are just that good at making rope. Or walking across snow.

They're like... I think it was Nietzsche who made the observation that man stands on a tightrope between the apes and the angels. Tolkien's elves are pretty close to the 'angel' side of that tightrope, and consequently have some inherently supernatural abilities.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Serafina »

This is just an example of the subtle magic in Tolkiens work.

Elves are just so good at not disturbing what they walk upon that they don't sink into the snow either. And it's not even necessarily an universal elven property, it might just be something Legolas has a lot of training in.

The same applies to a lot of their works. Ropes that untie themselves only when you want them to are just very well-crafted ropes. Cloaks that make you near-invisible are just cloaks that are very-well crafted for the purpose of keeping you warm. Lembas and Miruvor are food that is so well-cooked that it is extremely nourishing.

This is not necessarily limited to Elves. The Valar and Maiar do it, just in slightly more exotic ways. Humans were certainly capable of it as well, as least the most mighty and experienced - the weapons forged in Anor are a good example, and Aragorns skills border on the supernatural as well (such as his healing hands).

Note that elves don't call these things "magic", since it's just a natural extension of their skills. They reserve the word "magic" for unnatural warping of things - pretty much only things done by Morgoth and his servants.
But even that magic is mostly about imbuing things with one skill and power. The One Ring is so powerful because Sauron poured so much of his essence into him. It makes you invisible because of his aptitude at trickery, and has a mighty controlling will because Sauron has one as well.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
Isolder74
Official SD.Net Ace of Cakes
Posts: 6762
Joined: 2002-07-10 01:16am
Location: Weber State of Construction University
Contact:

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Isolder74 »

Their ropes don't just untie themselves when you need them to they are also as long as you need them to be as well. 600 foot cliff, it's long enough. 20 foot one, just the right length.

Metal that is super strong but light as a feather, while not being special ore like Mithril. Elvish tech is filled with magical extras.
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
User avatar
LaCroix
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5193
Joined: 2004-12-21 12:14pm
Location: Sopron District, Hungary, Europe, Terra

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by LaCroix »

Serafina wrote:This is just an example of the subtle magic in Tolkiens work.

Elves are just so good at not disturbing what they walk upon that they don't sink into the snow either. And it's not even necessarily an universal elven property, it might just be something Legolas has a lot of training in.
True to some extent - we usually only see these blatantly supernatural abilities in older and/or very experienced Elves. Normal elvish soldiers are a lot weaker than these characters. Still way better than Humans, Dwarves, or Orcs, but significantly less powerful than "hero" Elves.
Serafina wrote: The same applies to a lot of their works. Ropes that untie themselves only when you want them to are just very well-crafted ropes. Cloaks that make you near-invisible are just cloaks that are very-well crafted for the purpose of keeping you warm. Lembas and Miruvor are food that is so well-cooked that it is extremely nourishing.
Isolder mentioned the ropes being actual magical, and Lembas must be magical as well. It is described as something alike zwieback or crispbread, and according to the books you can get a full marching day's nutrition from one slice(the movies claim it's from one small bite). Since the real version of that wasa stuff would only be 60 calories per slice (15 gram - 4 calories per gram), and even peanut butter only barely reaches 6 calories per gram and butter, the most caloric procuct, is at 7-7.5 cal/gram.

A "marching day" would easily require 3000 calories (probably twice as much), which means for the waver thin lembas with nutritional values as good as butter to work like described, each slice would need to be as big as 33 wasa slices. That's a couple of square feet. What if "wafer thin" means something thicker than wasa, and mybe three times as big? A whole package contains 12 slices, so you'd need 3 packs. Put them side by side either way, and it's still a huge block. Either way you look at it, this is impossible to match with the description.

You'd need something with like 10 to 30 times the caloric content of butter to create Lembas in a reasonable size that maches the description - you just can't "cook that well". You simply can't do that without magic.

Also, just like the ropes, its mere touch actually hurts 'evil' creatures.
Serafina wrote: This is not necessarily limited to Elves. The Valar and Maiar do it, just in slightly more exotic ways. Humans were certainly capable of it as well, as least the most mighty and experienced - the weapons forged in Anor are a good example, and Aragorns skills border on the supernatural as well (such as his healing hands).
This is where your argument falls apart.
Valar and Maiar are magical beings like the Elves, and Aragorn is a Dúnedain, and therefore part elvish. They all don't count.
And Anor - that's the old name of Minas Tirith - the home of the Dúnedain - so if they made magical blades, they are most likely also made by part-elves.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Guardsman Bass »

No, it's implied that righteous humans (relatively) uncorrupted by Melkor's warping of the world can do this type of stuff as well, although their innate ability to do so isn't as great as that of the Elves. The Numenoreans at their peak built nearly indestructible fortifications that were utterly resistant to weather and time (Orthanc), the whole "healing hands" mentioned up-thread, and so forth.

Some of them may have had more openly "magical"-seeming personal power as well, considering that Elendil and Gilgalad were capable of "killing" post-Ring creation Sauron at the peak of his power.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Simon_Jester »

LaCroix, the point here is that in Tolkein, the normal practice of craftsmanship and what we call 'magic' are blurred. In English there is a distinction between 'preternatural' and 'supernatural,' and

So lembas is 'preternaturally' nutritious bread. But it is not 'supernatural' in that it has no capabilities that are not logically part of the nature of bread.* It doesn't let you fly, or pick up a huge boulder, or heal your wounds. Lembas isn't 'supernatural' in that it does anything other than what bread ought to do. It is 'preternatural' in that it does the one thing thirty times better than bread ought to do it, better than normal bread as we know it in the Fourth Age can ever do it.

Likewise, elven swords and armor are preternaturally sharp and strong... but as a rule they don't do anything exotic like shoot out bursts of flame, their functions are restricted to doing the normal things a sword does, very well. Elven cloaks hide you really well and shelter you really well, both of which are things cloaks are normally intended to do. Elven boats are really good boats, elven ropes are really good ropes, and so on.
_____

*Aside from being at least mildly harmful to evil creatures on contact... Which one can argue is from the residual grace imparted to it by the elves, who represent capital-g Good in a world where there is a very definite conflict between Good and Evil.

Now, whether we call such a thing, with preternaturally superior qualities, "magical" or not, depends on our attitude toward magic. In the context of Tolkein's novels, theology, and worldview...

It's like this. No, they are not magical, they are the product of superior craftsmanship, of a kind that was only possible in the Third and earlier Ages when a certain special grace had not yet faded from creation.

Nowadays, of course, it has, and no one could conceivably make a rope that unties itself and is as long as you need it to be. Or a slice of traveling bread nutritious enough to feed a strong man for a whole day. Even high technology might not let you do these things- because high technology is not the same as divine grace.

To expand on this, we can quote a character from one of Tolkein's friends novels, and say "it's all in Plato."

We can imagine lembas as being very close to the Platonic ideal form of bread, not just a bread but Bread itself. The 'ideal' bread is a bread that partakes of the fundamental nature of bread so much, so well, that if you saw it and tasted it you would say "this is exactly what bread is supposed to be!" Lembas may not be this perfect or this ideal- but, thanks to the divine grace that is present in the elves, it comes close.

Likewise elven ropes are Ropes, elven cloaks are Cloaks, these artifacts do everything that it is in the nature of a rope or a cloak to do, and do it very well.

Of course, it is possible for a very materialist person to say "ah, well, that's just a bunch of philosophical and religious mumbo-jumbo. It's really just magic bread." And within the frame of reference of said person... yes, lembas is simply 'magic bread.'

But to stop at that point is to fail to grasp a point about how Tolkein set up the world of his fiction.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23145
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by LadyTevar »

The explaination I've always heard was "Elves walk lightly upon the world". Who aid it and where I have to look up
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23145
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by LadyTevar »

This is fanfic: but it's as good an explanation as any imho.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10357006/1 ... nt-To-Know
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Elheru Aran »

The Numenoreans were exceptional more or less due to Elven blood from the line of Luthien that goes all the way back to Thingol and Melian, one of the very first Elves and a Maiar. That's a heaping load of magic genetics right there. I don't recall if there was other intermarriage with the Elves, but they were descended from Men of the First Age, specifically the Houses of Beor and Hador, Elf-friends and allies in the war against Morgoth. So it's pretty much a given that they received High Elven technical knowledge and capabilities at least when Numenor and the Elves were friends. The specific magical feats such as healing hands seem to be limited to those of the royal lineage, hence Aragorn.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
PhilosopherOfSorts
Jedi Master
Posts: 1008
Joined: 2008-10-28 07:11pm
Location: Waynesburg, PA, its small, its insignifigant, its almost West Virginia.

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by PhilosopherOfSorts »

As far as the ropes "burning" Gollum, I actually always took that as Gollum just, you know, lying. Yelling and screaming and carrying on and generally throwing a tantrum so that the soft-hearted Hobbits would untie him, but not actually in any pain.
A fuse is a physical embodyment of zen, in order for it to succeed, it must fail.

Power to the Peaceful

If you have friends like mine, raise your glasses. If you don't, raise your standards.
User avatar
SpottedKitty
Jedi Master
Posts: 1004
Joined: 2014-08-22 08:24pm
Location: UK

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by SpottedKitty »

PhilosopherOfSorts wrote:As far as the ropes "burning" Gollum, I actually always took that as Gollum just, you know, lying. Yelling and screaming and carrying on and generally throwing a tantrum so that the soft-hearted Hobbits would untie him, but not actually in any pain.
I dunno, look at the scenes where he reacts (before Frodo tells him what they are) to the touch of other elf-made or -influenced materials, like the lembas. If you look at it as the materials having a "virtue" simply because of who made them, Gollum's "corrupted" nature causing something like a violent allergic reaction makes sense in that context.
“Despite rumor, Death isn't cruel — merely terribly, terribly good at his job.”
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Elheru Aran wrote:The Numenoreans were exceptional more or less due to Elven blood from the line of Luthien that goes all the way back to Thingol and Melian, one of the very first Elves and a Maiar. That's a heaping load of magic genetics right there. I don't recall if there was other intermarriage with the Elves, but they were descended from Men of the First Age, specifically the Houses of Beor and Hador, Elf-friends and allies in the war against Morgoth. So it's pretty much a given that they received High Elven technical knowledge and capabilities at least when Numenor and the Elves were friends. The specific magical feats such as healing hands seem to be limited to those of the royal lineage, hence Aragorn.
There's other stuff, too, though - like the longer life-spans which then (according to Tolkien) diminished regardless of interbreeding with other groups of Men back in Middle-Earth. It's not just a matter of them having Elvish knowledge and kings descended from a half-elf.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: How(or why) does Legolas ignore gravity?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:The Numenoreans were exceptional more or less due to Elven blood from the line of Luthien that goes all the way back to Thingol and Melian, one of the very first Elves and a Maiar. That's a heaping load of magic genetics right there. I don't recall if there was other intermarriage with the Elves, but they were descended from Men of the First Age, specifically the Houses of Beor and Hador, Elf-friends and allies in the war against Morgoth. So it's pretty much a given that they received High Elven technical knowledge and capabilities at least when Numenor and the Elves were friends. The specific magical feats such as healing hands seem to be limited to those of the royal lineage, hence Aragorn.
There's other stuff, too, though - like the longer life-spans which then (according to Tolkien) diminished regardless of interbreeding with other groups of Men back in Middle-Earth. It's not just a matter of them having Elvish knowledge and kings descended from a half-elf.
I thought the implication was quite obvious that the lifespan was from their Elven heritage, given how it keeps getting shorter after Elros, as they kept marrying other humans after that point. If other Numenoreans had similarly long lifespans, I'm not aware of that.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
Post Reply