Alternate WW2 RAR

[Purple]

The year is 1942. Just a month has passed since the successful attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese fleet. This is where our hypothetical history change comes in. On new years eve 1942 Japanese scientists unveil a super secret device that allows their forces to communicate with and to an extent control all marine mammals in the world. Distance between the controller and target is not an issue. And although one controller can only speak to one animal at a time the beasts will carry out most orders, assuming they are not flat out stupid or dangerous (so they can't order dolphins to clear mine fields of wails to ram american ships). The device is about the size of one of 1950's computers. So it can be placed on ships or built in large numbers. The cost per unit is roughly the same as one platoon of decent period tanks. No one, not the Germans, americans or anyone else can replicated this device or use captured units by act of plot. Apparently a requirement for its use is that the user is loyal to the Japanese emperor.

How does history change?

[Ahriman238]

Or whales?

and I'm thinking "cannot" be placed on ships or built in large numbers, given the related costs.

Anyways, naval war works out a bit better for the Japanese. With global range there's no reason to build a bunch of these. Three for redundancy, another one or two for a carrier or forward island so they can be convenient to Yamamoto, easily within their abilities. Now they can keep perfect tabs on every naval movement, everywhere. It's a bigger edge than radar. The device must, of course remain a strict secret or the Allies will prioritize capturing a device, and possibly start depth-charging every cetecean they run across.

[Irbis]

Even if Japanese can use to device to deny movement of every single ship on Pacific Ocean, USA can still ask Soviet Union for bases in Siberia (say in return for division of Japan into two zones), transfer several bomber fleets to Vladivostok via Alaska, then proceed to bomb Japan to the ground as IRL. Case closed?

[Purple]

Or whales?

Yea. Sorry about that. I was posting quickly and let the automatic spell check on firefox have a bit too much freedom.

and I'm thinking "cannot" be placed on ships or built in large numbers, given the related costs.

But they can be placed on any ship (due to the relatively small size) and built in large enough numbers to equip say every fleet with one. But basically, the "large numbers" bit is just my way of making sure that you understand it is not unique.

[Borgholio]

When in 1942 is this? I ask because if they develop this device late in the year, they're already screwed due to the battle of Midway. No amount of intel can help the Japanese replace four fleet carriers and their pilots. If it was before Midway, then they might be able to keep tabs on the location of the American carriers and things could be different. But then again remember, we had already cracked their naval codes, so we might hear something like this:

"Project X reveals location of American carriers at *coordinates*. Fleet ordered to intercept."

Then we'd wonder what the hell Project X is and spend a great deal of time trying to find out.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The OP specified it's a month after Pearl Harbour, so IIRC it's well before even Coral Sea, never mind Midway.

[Borgholio]

D'oh...totally skimmed over that part.

[Irbis]

Then we'd wonder what the hell Project X is and spend a great deal of time trying to find out.

*cue colossal witch hunt as OSS comes to conclusion it's either magic or spy network* ?

[Simon_Jester]

Hm.

In the long run I think the Japanese still lose the naval war in the Pacific, because the US can build fleets so large that even knowing exactly where all their ships are the Japanese are still unable to sink them. Moreover, it is not clear that the device can be used to keep track of, for example, a warship that is moving very quickly, because dolphins and whales don't swim at thirty knots.

However, for the US to do this will require a long period of time during which they are vulnerable to defeat in detail, and that's going to be bad for morale as they suffer a string of losses.

[biostem]

The OP says this is a "super secret device", so at first, the allies will have a bad time, as the Japanese will basically know most of the allies' ship movements. As long as the Japanese are smart about it, and don't make it so obvious that dolphins or whales are following their ships, or uncharactersitically patrolling certain areas, (only taking control for an intelligence update instead of keeping a particular whale or dolphin actively controlled all the time), then the allies are unlikely to ever catch on.

The next question would be how they use this information. The allies to eventually break Germany's Enigma codes, so if the Japanese were feeding them the info about the ship movements, the allies might then catch on. The allies do also start using radar, so even if the Japanese use the intel to try and ambush fleets, the allies would see the planes coming. The other unavoidable issue is that the allies can simply outproduce Japan in terms of food, raw materials, ships, and so on - they may not have the resources to handle the escalating deployment of allied military forces.

Now, while the OP says they can't get the controlled creatures to do anything suicidal, they may be able to get them to carry magnetic mines that could be remotely or time-detonated, (the dolphin or whale could plant the mine then make it to safety). Still, this may only work in limited circumstances, and the allies may simply take to killing any such creatures that approach their ships, after a while.

Intelligence gathering may be the best use of this technology, and even then, it may only prolong the war. I doubt, for instance, that it would have any impact on the allies' development and use of the nuclear bomb, however...

[Irbis]

In the long run I think the Japanese still lose the naval war in the Pacific, because the US can build fleets so large that even knowing exactly where all their ships are the Japanese are still unable to sink them.

Once the fleet is parked next to island, have dolphins entangle steel cables in screws, place limpet mines at weak points, or jam steering mechanisms. Unless you pack every ship with depth charges in every possible space (making them extremely vulnerable to conventional arms) you have no way of beating that.

Moreover, it is not clear that the device can be used to keep track of, for example, a warship that is moving very quickly, because dolphins and whales don't swim at thirty knots.

So what? Have them surround islands in several layers. As fleet moves from island to island, each layer will inform you of the course and by timing messages you can gauge speed. Ships generally pick shortest course, not float randomly.

However, for the US to do this will require a long period of time during which they are vulnerable to defeat in detail, and that's going to be bad for morale as they suffer a string of losses.

Wouldn't that make them even angrier, though?

And actually, if Japanese can pass the data to Germans, they can make much better use of it - not only they can abandon wolfpacks and just attack every convoy head on with massed U-boots, but they could also mass their surface fleet and have them attack every unprotected convoy (though it would be very risky still, but much less than IRL).

The other unavoidable issue is that the allies can simply outproduce Japan in terms of food, raw materials, ships, and so on - they may not have the resources to handle the escalating deployment of allied military forces.

If you can sink all of that while at sea, outproduction might not matter. Shiny new tank division that got sunk during transit is nothing more than huge money sink. That's why I suggested using air power instead of trying to win at sea.

Still, this may only work in limited circumstances, and the allies may simply take to killing any such creatures that approach their ships, after a while.

How? Dolphin with a knife is lethal threat to modern commando divers. WW2 vintage diver? Good luck, especially seeing that only IIRC Italy had any big or competent combat diver unit. The only thing that would work would be depth charge saturation.

[Captain Seafort]

Once the fleet is parked next to island, have dolphins entangle steel cables in screws, place limpet mines at weak points, or jam steering mechanisms. Unless you pack every ship with depth charges in every possible space (making them extremely vulnerable to conventional arms) you have no way of beating that.

Where exactly are they going to get all these cables and mines from?

they could also mass their surface fleet and have them attack every unprotected convoy (though it would be very risky still, but much less than IRL).

The slight problem with that idea is that in order to mass a surface fleet you first need a surface fleet to mass. The best concentration the KM ever had was the invasion of Norway, which just gave the RN a big fat juicy target, which it took full advantage of. They tried to concentrate a much more powerful squadron than they eventually got for the Bismarck's sortie by adding S&G, but engine trouble and an aerial torpedo put paid to that. End result: the only heavies available were the twins and Tirpitz, none of which could stand up to anything the RN's heavies.

If you can sink all of that while at sea, outproduction might not matter. Shiny new tank division that got sunk during transit is nothing more than huge money sink. That's why I suggested using air power instead of trying to win at sea.

Control of the sea is central to winning the war in both western and eastern theatres. Fortunately, the US Navy is more than capable of doing so through sheer numbers, regardless of improved intelligence for the Japanese. Knowing exactly where the steamroller is at any given moment isn't going to make enough of a difference to allow them to stop it.

How? Dolphin with a knife is lethal threat to modern commando divers. WW2 vintage diver? Good luck, especially seeing that only IIRC Italy had any big or competent combat diver unit. The only thing that would work would be depth charge saturation.

The Italians had the best, but the British Commandos were also very good, as the cockleshell raid proved, and sending divers in ahead of an amphibious assault to clear mines laid off the beaches was a key part of US doctrine in the Pacific. Attacking those units (by ramming and biting them, not by waving a knife around! ) would be the most effective combat role controlled dolphins could play, and it would just make they assaults a lot bloodier, not impossible.

[SilverDragonRed]

I see Yamamoto exploiting this tech to hunt for the American carriers. With a near round-the-clock update on their locations, he could make a battleplan to destroy them. Assuming, of course, that he can be heard over the Imperial Army in the persistent squabbles between the branches.

It would certainly help prevent the Doolittle Raid from happening.

However, they still have the issue of bringing the U.S. to heel in six months. If the carriers aren't destroyed without equal or greater cost to the Japanese by that time, then the muscle of American logistics will overpower them in manpower and materiel.

The big question after that point is how well could this equipment protect Japanese shipping from sub attacks.

[Simon_Jester]

Even if the US carriers are destroyed in the first half of 1942, the US isn't going to just give up.

It has occurred to me that long range coordination between dolphin-controllers is problematic. My submarine (or even my aircraft carrier) could carry a dolphin-controller, but it can only carry one (or a few). I can only talk to one dolphin at a time and I don't have the means to keep track of where a large number of dolphins all hunting the same convoy are.

So I'd need to talk to some kind of fixed base that does have the ability to coordinate such a network. And if I'm constantly communicating with a centralized base that puts together lots of intelligence information from its many dolphin-controllers, I become vulnerable to being found by radio direction finding methods.

[Purple]

You can only talk to one creature at a time but you don't need to micromanage them. There is no need to keep a constant communication going with the target sea mammal in order to be sure he will keep obeying. You can just order them to do something and they will keep doing what they were told until you order them to do something else. All you need to do is check on them periodically to ask for data and reports and stuff.

[Borgholio]

Still, if you have too many dolphins, then even cycling through them all would leave gaps in your coverage. Remember they also need to eat and rest as well. They can't follow a ship 24/7. So you'd need lots of dolphins and have to rotate through them consistently. That means if you get an update on an American carrier's location, but it takes an hour for you to go through all your other dolphins and get back to the carrier...well guess what? An hour is plenty of time for them to launch an airstrike. And once the planes are in the air, the dolphins can't track them.

[Purple]

That is true.

[Tribble]

Although you can't outright tell the animals to commit suicide attacks, is it possible to trick them? For example, could I tell an Orca whale to carry an item (such as a torpedo or mine) as close to a US warship as possible without telling it what the item is?

[Purple]

Although you can't outright tell the animals to commit suicide attacks, is it possible to trick them? For example, could I tell an Orca whale to carry an item (such as a torpedo or mine) as close to a US warship as possible without telling it what the item is?

The basic assumption here is that the sea mammals are for some reason intelligent enough to have conversations with human controllers, remember complex orders and commands and stuff. So you can try. But they will ask you what the device is. And if they are not satisfied with the answer you provide they won't do it.

[Simon_Jester]

To be fair, planting a magnetic mine on someone's hull isn't a suicide mission in the first place.

[Purple]

But moving toward someone armed with guns whilst transporting a very big and obvious device belonging to someone that guy hates and wants to shoot is.

[LaCroix]

Doing it from deep below is pretty safe, though. It's not as if you could watch out for dolphins approaching your ship at all times. It should be easy to explain this to them.

[Purple]

Only if the supply of weaponry is close by. I can't imagine it would be safe for a sea creature to swim many kilometers or days on end with a bomb attached.

[Borgholio]

Japanese mines were not very advanced in that era though. They didn't have any magnetic mines that I know of, and their lightest mines (designed to be deployed in large numbers vs submarines) were nearly 300 pounds. The ones used for anti-ship work ballooned to nearly a full ton. I can't see dolphins towing that kind of weight. Only large whales might be able to work with the heavier mines, but they would also be bigger targets themselves.

[Simon_Jester]

I think under the circumstances, developing a magnetic mine might be a high enough priority for Japan that they could do it. Or find some other way to affix demolition charges to a ship's hull, which is really all that's being called for here. HOW this is done matters less than the idea of doing it.

Think about the Italian commando raid on Alexandria in December 1941, the one with the 'human torpedoes' (that is, torpedo-like vehicles that were designed to allow a few divers to penetrate defenses, not actual explosive weapons guided by a human pilot).

They managed to put two battleships out of action for months by sticking some limpet mines onto the British ships' hulls.