Michelle Rodriguez: "Stop steal white superheroes!"

[Gandalf]

So why did GARTH ENNIS bring up Colt's Manufacturing LLC, if not to be completely dishonest?

That does not answer my question.

Because IT IS. Read 'The Punisher MAX' yourself, and see how Garth Ennis REPEATEDLY shoehorns anarchist and anti-capitalist propaganda in his stories. Hell, in 'The Punisher: Army of One', he has the US indirectly support a mercenary's plan to launch a terror attack against the European Union, for its plan to impose restrictions on the use of private military companies.

I've read Punisher MAX. Being critical of the US/capitalism doesn't make it commie propaganda. You'll have to try harder, freedom patriot.

[NeoGoomba]

original Annie in its first few moments. I know its quasi-racist to refer to it as "black" Annie just like saying "black" Debbie (I wonder if anyone will get that reference)

Wait, does this mean there's a...*whispers* Black Stormy?

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is especially so when the change is treated as though it were a color palette swap and no serious attempt is made to examine just how different, say, a black Captain America could be from a white Captain America.

Man, that would actually be a really cool story idea, if the author were actually brave/intelligent enough to tackle the race issue head on. Hell, you could even have a subplot of creepy Red Skull Nazi guy (I don't care enough to remember or look up his name at the moment) almost getting the Captain to turn on his country because of how they treat black people and whatnot.

[The Romulan Republic]

It would take a real level of stupidity to decide to join the Nazis because America is too racist. That's like saying "I object to punching someone because its violent, so I'm going to shoot them instead." I couldn't respect a character who was susceptible to such idiocy.

[Simon_Jester]

There's always the "Whatever color you are, it doesn't matter, now you are a superman, join Hydra, we'll respect you even if the garden-variety Nazis don't!" option.

[Batman]

That's never going to work on any character recognizable as Captain America.

[Joun_Lord]

This is especially so when the change is treated as though it were a color palette swap and no serious attempt is made to examine just how different, say, a black Captain America could be from a white Captain America.

Man, that would actually be a really cool story idea, if the author were actually brave/intelligent enough to tackle the race issue head on. Hell, you could even have a subplot of creepy Red Skull Nazi guy (I don't care enough to remember or look up his name at the moment) almost getting the Captain to turn on his country because of how they treat black people and whatnot.

A black Captain America, especially during World Scuffle Part Two, would probably be questioning what exactly he is fighting for. He is fighting for freedom and democracy but blacks in America are segregated, don't have the same rights, and are still seen as lesser.

His being Captain America represents the ideal America just like the whitey Cap'n does. Steve Rodgers represents honesty and integrity and just being a good person. For the the black Captain America he represents equality and the ability for anyone to become great. For both these are ideals America wants to live up to even if too often we fall short.

Cap being black would mean he's only too aware of how short society is. He is fighting to liberate Europe but can't drink from the same fountain as white soldiers and can rarely serve in the same units. He is looked down upon and belittled.

It would weight heavily on him, sure, but nowhere near enough to join literal freaking Nazi's. He wants equality and the weak and downtrodden to be respected. Nazi's aren't going to fit that bill. Even if they respect him it will only be because of his power, not for who he is. Certainly will not share the same respect for his people.

He might leave the fight maybe. Even Steve left government service in some comics from what I can remember when all the bullshit the modern government and the Marvel comic version of it is pulling got too much for him. A WWII black Captain would maybe see how some of the policies the Nazi's employ with racism, xenophobia, and eugenics as things the Allies do too, even if to a far less fucked up extent.

Now that would be a truly amazing comic if done right.

[Sidewinder]

A black Captain America, especially during World Scuffle Part Two, would probably be questioning what exactly he is fighting for. He is fighting for freedom and democracy but blacks in America are segregated, don't have the same rights, and are still seen as lesser.

His being Captain America represents the ideal America just like the whitey Cap'n does. Steve Rodgers represents honesty and integrity and just being a good person. For the the black Captain America he represents equality and the ability for anyone to become great. For both these are ideals America wants to live up to even if too often we fall short.

Cap being black would mean he's only too aware of how short society is. He is fighting to liberate Europe but can't drink from the same fountain as white soldiers and can rarely serve in the same units. He is looked down upon and belittled.

It would weight heavily on him, sure, but nowhere near enough to join literal freaking Nazi's. He wants equality and the weak and downtrodden to be respected. Nazi's aren't going to fit that bill. Even if they respect him it will only be because of his power, not for who he is. Certainly will not share the same respect for his people.

He might leave the fight maybe. Even Steve left government service in some comics from what I can remember when all the bullshit the modern government and the Marvel comic version of it is pulling got too much for him. A WWII black Captain would maybe see how some of the policies the Nazi's employ with racism, xenophobia, and eugenics as things the Allies do too, even if to a far less fucked up extent.

Now that would be a truly amazing comic if done right.

I agree, but given Marvel Comics' tendency to FUCK UP its attempts at social commentary for the post-9/11 world, I have very little confidence in the publisher's ability to do this right.

[Simon_Jester]

That's never going to work on any character recognizable as Captain America.

It's not gonna work, naturally, but I bet you could create a sufficiently convincing sales pitch that the reader has a moment of eyes-wide, holy-shit, then turns the page and sees Cap shield-bash the Red Skull in the face or whatever.

I mean, it's like, I figure most people watching The Empire Strikes Back knew at a gut level that Luke wasn't really going to join Darth Vader and rule the galaxy as son and father. But that doesn't mean the scene where Vader offers isn't compelling and dramatic.

[Kon_El]

There is a black Captain America http://marvel.wikia.com/Isaiah_Bradley_%28Earth-616%29 It was a great mini. He is even the grandfather of Patriot, leader of the young avengers.

[Murazor]

Edit to hastily correct myself: Apparently there have been some Muslim superheroes, actually. Go figure. I thought Baz was at least the first DC Muslim hero, but I guess not. First *major* hero, I suppose?

There was a Justice League Annual or some such thing that was ALL about Janissary, a Turkish doctor who finds the lost books of Merlin and gains spellcasting powers as a result. In spite of the utter hilarity of the codename they gave her, there seemed to be a serious effort at portraying the islamic faith in a non-cartoonesque fashion and whatnot.

Alas, that was published in August of 2000 and after 9/11, the character literally disappeared for like half a dozen years and since then to Flashpoint was only used like half a dozen times in non speaking roles, with big gatherings of superheroines. Kinda sad, tbh.

[Stormin]

This is especially so when the change is treated as though it were a color palette swap and no serious attempt is made to examine just how different, say, a black Captain America could be from a white Captain America.

Man, that would actually be a really cool story idea, if the author were actually brave/intelligent enough to tackle the race issue head on. Hell, you could even have a subplot of creepy Red Skull Nazi guy (I don't care enough to remember or look up his name at the moment) almost getting the Captain to turn on his country because of how they treat black people and whatnot.

Scientist: "Okay mister Black Steve Rogers, it seems there was a mix-up in our experimentation. The intent was to inject you with syphilis because...well this is the forties and we are kind of terrible people like that. Instead we accidently gave you a super soldier serum so...fight for your country!"

And thus Captain Reich was born?

[Elheru Aran]

Funnily enough, Ultimate comics Nick Fury derives from a very similar base... he was one of the original Super-Soldier serum recipients, a test case before they gave Steve the shot. He is literally the same age as Cap... but he made it all the way from WWII to now!

[Gandalf]

Scientist: "Okay mister Black Steve Rogers, it seems there was a mix-up in our experimentation. The intent was to inject you with syphilis because...well this is the forties and we are kind of terrible people like that. Instead we accidentally gave you a super soldier serum so...fight for your country!"

And thus Captain Reich was born?

If you wrote Red Skull the right way, that could work pretty well. Essentially you'd have to make him a bit like Shaw in X-Men: First Class, who appears to work within the Nazi system as opposed to for it.