Super Avenger Bros!

[TithonusSyndrome]

Another Avengers force sub, three years going? I guess this movie is bound to become a faithful standard for testing the abilities of various characters and franchises.

It's not much more complex than it sounds; you have the power to pick a team of heroes, equal in number to the heroes participating in the defense of NY during The Avengers film, to achieve the goal of defending NY's inhabitants and property from Loki's Chitauri, and with less property damage and casualties if possible - including diverting the tac nuke from the USAF F-35, to be clear. There's just a couple things to bear in mind:

1. Your roster has to be consistent within any one given Smash game. If you want Snake on your team, for instance, you can't have Shulk, if you have Mewtwo then you can't have Lucario, and so on.

2. The character you pick isn't simply restricted to their Smash abilities or durability; they can be drawn from any game they've appeared in, assuming that the character is the same individual in each game; for instance, Mario would be capable of every feat in every game he's been in because there is no indication that there isn't a common continuity in his games, but Link is emphatically a different individual in most, if not all of his games. In cases like his, you have to remain consistent within incarnations, and pick one you would prefer the most.

3. There's no Helicarrier, but any character with a floating battleship equivalent will bring it if you pick them, such as Fox's Great Fox or Metaknight's fortress thing. It's not required, but you get to choose.

4. Keep it interesting! Don't simply pick all powerhouses to overwhelm the enemy, try to maintain some sense of analogy to the Avengers in the film. After all, a lot of what they did was disaster management, and while someone like Ganondorf or Samus could probably blow away dozens of Chitauri at a time, you'll still need people to crawl under cars and into subways to retrieve trapped civilians and so on.

And now for bonus marks, do you think your Smash team could win a fight against the movie Avengers team after wrapping up the Chitauri?

[Jub]

My team would be as follows:

1) Kirby. He's probably the strongest member of the team if we look at all of his games and the feats he's shown in them. He's tough, strong, and if all else fails he can just eat anything and everything the comes through that portal.
2) Meta Knight. He might be stronger than Kirby and brings along a mobile base of operations.
3) Marth. Every team needs a leader and he's shown that he's more than capable of running both a battle and a war.
4) Mario. He's the face of the team and no slouch in combat. I see him as the one clearing civilians from the zone and administering some medical care if we grant him his medical skills from his doctor role.
5) Peach. The teams primary medic using her healing skills from the Mario RPG.
6) Sonic. He's fast enough to rescue civies and help with the combat.

AS for beating the Avengers, this team likely wipes the floor with them. Nearly every member is super human in some way, most of the team can fly in one form or another, and the heavy hitters of the team are on par with Superman in terms of strength and toughness. Kirby has been shown to be able to survive a planet exploding and can throw people hard enough that they break orbit. Meta Knight may be capable of similar feats being from the same race as Kirby. Marth might only be a normal human, but the Avengers have Hawkeye, Cap, and Blackwidow so he's not exactly out of his league in this battle. Mario is a beast able to smash brick blocks nearly as large as he is with his bare hands, he can also leap several times his own height, and run at 10's of meters per second. Peach can float, has healing magic, and has the diplomatic skills needed to rule over a multi-species kingdom. Sonic, especially if we get his comic abilities, is a beast with his speed, strength, and toughness if we grant him access to his super sonic form he gets even meaner.

[Eulogy]

Going by Melee only:

1) Kirby. Let's face it, there is NOBODY as versatile as he is. He doesn't just have power; his Copy Abilities can give him a powerset that fits a situation like a glove.
2) Ness. An utter beast. With the power of all Eight Sanctuaries and his psychic prowess, foes will have a hell of a time keeping him down. He can heal wounds, maladies, and even otherwise mortal injury, he's tankish, he has sheer offensive power in PSI Flash and Rockin (and Smash gives him Thunder, Fire, and Magnet too), he can put people to sleep or immobilize them for riot control or hostage situations, and he can teleport and destroy alien killbots by bashing them with baseball bats, because why not?
3) Mr. Game & Watch. He's a 2d creature, and a walking Outside Context Problem to damn near everything. With two dimensions comes infinite thinness, with all that that implies. Ever been cut with an infinitely sharp garden shears? Things like doors, bars, and cracks are nothing to one who doesn't have to deal with silly things like the third dimension.
4) Samus. Extremely fast, tough, deadly, and strong. The Space Pirates fear her for very good reasons. Brings her own ship that has infinite supplies thanks to Super Metroid.
5) Zelda (OOT incarnation) We know she's a potent spellcaster as well as being a princess with all that grants. Her Sheik guise makes her a freakin ninja, too, and every superhero team needs a ninja!
6) Mewtwo. Just to round things out. He sounds redundant next to Ness, but where Ness has physical prowess and durability, Mewtwo makes up for psychic potency and versatility. He's also very intelligent.

Bonus: I'd say yes, since Ness could just paralyze most if not all of them, Mewtwo could toss them into the sun (the Hulk is held up in the air unitl he reverts to Bruce Banner), and well, this team has Kirby in it.

[Purple]

What happens if Kirby eats the Hulk?

[Crossroads Inc.]

In the spirit of trying to make an Even match, as opposed to just Super Humans.. (lets be honest... MewTwo by himself could defeat the Avengers... Probably) Yes yes... I know It's supposed to be smash bros only.. But so many in there are REALLY over power compared to Avengers.

Hulk = (can't think of a good 1 to 1 comparison :/
Thor = Ganondorf (super human strength with "magic")
Iron Man = Samus (Human in Power Armor)
Captain America = Adult Link (semi superhuman with tools)
Black Widow = Lara Croft (Human with combat experience)
Hawkeye = Pit / Kid Icarus (Human, kinda, with arrows)

[Simon_Jester]

What happens if Kirby eats the Hulk?

Kirby becomes an unstoppable yet adorable green ragemonster?

In the spirit of trying to make an Even match, as opposed to just Super Humans.. (lets be honest... MewTwo by himself could defeat the Avengers... Probably) Yes yes... I know It's supposed to be smash bros only.. But so many in there are REALLY over power compared to Avengers.

Hulk = (can't think of a good 1 to 1 comparison :/
Thor = Ganondorf (super human strength with "magic")
Iron Man = Samus (Human in Power Armor)
Captain America = Adult Link (semi superhuman with tools)
Black Widow = Lara Croft (Human with combat experience)
Hawkeye = Pit / Kid Icarus (Human, kinda, with arrows)

Hm. The Hulk, well, the best counter to him would appear to be Kirby because the only thing powerful enough to beat himself is himself.

Thor versus Ganondorf would, I suspect, go to Thor after a hard-fought battle. Ganondorf is typically immune to anything but the most powerful and 'holiest' of weapons, but I suspect Mjolnir can fit that bill. And Thor is frankly a lot stronger, although Ganondorf's weirder and wilder magics could make it difficult.

Iron Man versus Samus, well, Samus has a comparable arsenal of weaponry, I think, but her armor isn't flight capable and that's a serious limitation. Edge to Iron Man.

Captain America versus Link... I'm going to give this one to Link, after a battle that'd probably be even more protracted than Ganondorf versus Thor. They're both incredibly determined, heroic fighters with (assuming we use a 'fully upgraded' Link) a wide arsenal of combat moves. But Link has more flexible equipment choices (i.e. sword, bombs, outright magic). Link also has some really amazing healing magic, so if they beat each other to a pulp he's the one most likely to walk away.

Lara Croft versus Black Widow would be interesting, assuming the fanbase didn't all have heart attacks within the first thirty seconds. Possibly a tie.

Hawkeye versus that other guy... uh, I got nothing.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Don't forget to explain how your team deals with the Council's nuke, closing the wormhole, and beating this piss out of Loki.

Lara Croft

Which version of Smash Bros you been playing?

Hm. The Hulk, well, the best counter to him would appear to be Kirby because the only thing powerful enough to beat himself is himself.

Movie Hulk, like all other MCU versions, is significantly less powerful than comic version and was knocked unconscious after freefalling from the Helicarrier. The two obvious counters, on the other hand, are more powerful than all but perhaps the most outrageous comic book Hulk incarnations; Bowser is strong enough to lift and toss an immense cannonball fired directly on top of his own head - none the worse for wear - ballparked in the several thousands of tons, and has survived two separate falls into black holes intact in the Super Mario Galaxy games. On top of this, he's a sorcerer with lots of well-practiced black magic abilities like teleportation, magical resizing and geomancy, and depending on how much leeway you want to grant him, might actually just be able to magically transmogrify all the Chitauri and Avengers into inanimate objects like coins and bricks as per every Mario game. He's also a good pick because he's got flying ships of his own, but even if he didn't, there is literally nothing any Avenger here could do to hurt him. He needs to be fighting upper-level comic book characters or DBZ villains in order to risk serious personal harm.

If for whatever reason Bowser isn't your style, Donkey Kong has knocked a small moon out of orbit, which taken together with the fact that his fist merely glowed red-hot afterwards means that he's durable and strong beyond anything Hulk can dish out or take here.

Iron Man versus Samus, well, Samus has a comparable arsenal of weaponry, I think, but her armor isn't flight capable and that's a serious limitation. Edge to Iron Man.

Samus has downed countless flying enemies before, and much like DK and Bowser, her armor is simply beyond anything that Iron Man could even scuff.

Captain America versus Link... I'm going to give this one to Link, after a battle that'd probably be even more protracted than Ganondorf versus Thor. They're both incredibly determined, heroic fighters with (assuming we use a 'fully upgraded' Link) a wide arsenal of combat moves. But Link has more flexible equipment choices (i.e. sword, bombs, outright magic). Link also has some really amazing healing magic, so if they beat each other to a pulp he's the one most likely to walk away.

Crossroads Inc. didn't specify an incarnation as per the OP, but if it's Majora's Mask Link, transforming into Fierce Deity Link will be enough to squash all six Avengers simultaneously.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Ghetto edit: Bowser's cannonball toss. Starts at 0:50.

[Tribble]

And let's not forget Jigglypuff... she can just put them all to sleep. Have the other characters kill 'em while they're napping.

[Purple]

If the Hulk is put to sleep will he turn back to Banner? And if so, what happens when Kirby eats him?
And what happens if Kirby eats them all whilst they sleep? Do we get some sort of super mega Kirby?
And what happens if he eats the atomic bomb?

[Simon_Jester]

And let's not forget Jigglypuff... she can just put them all to sleep. Have the other characters kill 'em while they're napping.

The other characters will also be asleep. Jigglypuff is adorable, yet indiscriminate.

Don't forget to explain how your team deals with the Council's nuke, closing the wormhole, and beating this piss out of Loki.

Beating up Loki would be the easy part. Dealing with the nuclear missile would be hard, I think.

Movie Hulk, like all other MCU versions, is significantly less powerful than comic version and was knocked unconscious after freefalling from the Helicarrier. The two obvious counters, on the other hand, are more powerful than all but perhaps the most outrageous comic book Hulk incarnations; Bowser is strong enough to lift and toss an immense cannonball fired directly on top of his own head - none the worse for wear - ballparked in the several thousands of tons, and has survived two separate falls into black holes intact in the Super Mario Galaxy games. On top of this, he's a sorcerer with lots of well-practiced black magic abilities like teleportation, magical resizing and geomancy, and depending on how much leeway you want to grant him, might actually just be able to magically transmogrify all the Chitauri and Avengers into inanimate objects like coins and bricks as per every Mario game. He's also a good pick because he's got flying ships of his own, but even if he didn't, there is literally nothing any Avenger here could do to hurt him. He needs to be fighting upper-level comic book characters or DBZ villains in order to risk serious personal harm.

Given that Bowser tends to lose to a man who just plain isn't that big and never seemed to me to be that superhumanly strong, I hadn't figured he was operating at that power level, so much as he was benefiting from cartoon physics.

On the other hand, he does have his own army and magical powers, and he's certainly no lightweight in close combat. He'd probably use minions to do what the Hulk does by brute force, but he might well still pull it all off.

If for whatever reason Bowser isn't your style, Donkey Kong has knocked a small moon out of orbit, which taken together with the fact that his fist merely glowed red-hot afterwards means that he's durable and strong beyond anything Hulk can dish out or take here.

Similar observations about cartoon characters apply to Donkey Kong.

Iron Man versus Samus, well, Samus has a comparable arsenal of weaponry, I think, but her armor isn't flight capable and that's a serious limitation. Edge to Iron Man.

Samus has downed countless flying enemies before, and much like DK and Bowser, her armor is simply beyond anything that Iron Man could even scuff.

How so? What things has it survived, that we can be sure Iron Man armor would not survive?

Captain America versus Link... I'm going to give this one to Link, after a battle that'd probably be even more protracted than Ganondorf versus Thor. They're both incredibly determined, heroic fighters with (assuming we use a 'fully upgraded' Link) a wide arsenal of combat moves. But Link has more flexible equipment choices (i.e. sword, bombs, outright magic). Link also has some really amazing healing magic, so if they beat each other to a pulp he's the one most likely to walk away.

Crossroads Inc. didn't specify an incarnation as per the OP, but if it's Majora's Mask Link, transforming into Fierce Deity Link will be enough to squash all six Avengers simultaneously.

So far as I know, in that game, we never saw Fierce Deity Link fight anything but the incarnation of Majora's Mask, and it's hard to accurately evaluate the power of such an entity. Its ability to perform amazing magical feats like shifting the moon in its orbit or magically binding giants does not mean that its avatar is any tougher a customer than, say, Ganondorf. Being a mighty sorceror who can work incredibly powerful complicated spells doesn't necessarily help much when some lunatic is whaling on you with a sword right there.

For purposes of my visualization, I sort of used an 'amalgam' of various game Links, who often acquire various magical spells or devices capable of triggering same, a variety of musclepowered weapons, the ability to slaughter their way through large numbers of monsters that, informally, look about as tough as normal human soldiers or a bit tougher... The ability to pick up gigantic rocks and so on, that's common, but it doesn't seem to have any effect on Link's ability to hurt enemies in hand to hand combat, so it may only impact his ability to lift huge objects.

[Tribble]

The other characters will also be asleep. Jigglypuff is adorable, yet indiscriminate.

So I guess that just means that Jigglypuff will have to kill them all. And then die from the nuke as there would be no one to stop it... but it would be a glorious death, worthy of song!

[Formless]

Any of these teams becomes close to redundant if they include Mewtwo. The original movie showed a Mewtwo who could dominate human minds, edit the memories of whole groups of people and poke'mon at once without leaving clues of the time loss, had mastered or improved several poke'verse technologies including pokeballs and the very cloning tech that created him, owned an island with a castle he presumably built himself, levitate large groups of people and poke'mon, surround himself with psychic barriers that were impenetrable even to the original mew (who had the same ability), had several of his own poke'mon, considered himself equal or superior to human trainers, and most of all, could control the weather on a massive or even global scale. He was essentially a Dragon Ball villain, possibly equal to early DBZ characters (I'll stop short of saying he was on par with Frieza, but its possible).

There was a second Mewtwo created in Unova which was feminine and weaker than the original in terms of sheer power, but even then... she had the ability to mega-evolve into Mewtwo Y, and had intense power in that form as well. She could levitate thousands of gallons of lake water, travel at hypersonic speed, and even travel to the edge of space while carrying a Genesect against its will. The first time she did this she passed out and fell to Earth at terminal velocity, surviving the re-entry. The second time she also passed out at first, but moments later woke up in low orbit, somehow able to survive despite the low atmospheric pressure (as did the Genesect). This one also knew electroball instead of shadowball, which would probably be more effective against the Iron Man suit. The main things that the second one lacked was the ability to modify human minds, and mastery over technology as she was more afraid of humans in contrast to the original's grudge with them-- her creators survived her escape and sent a bounty hunter after her, whereas the original deliberately blew his up as revenge for his mistreatment.

Either one is so superhuman that the poke'mon canon considers Mewtwo to be the most powerful poke'mon species to exist, at least in terms of sheer combat prowess, even beating out literal gods like Arceus and his servants. That was the design goal of the people who created it, and they succeeded.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Given that Bowser tends to lose to a man who just plain isn't that big and never seemed to me to be that superhumanly strong, I hadn't figured he was operating at that power level, so much as he was benefiting from cartoon physics.

Jub has already posted that Mario can run at 20m/s and shatter brick cubes four times his own body volume into rubble with a single blow, but he also can hold his breath and strenuously swim five minutes, hammer throw Bowser the length of a hockey rink, jump dozens of feet in the air, survive thousand-foot falls, tear down castles bearhanded and survive accelerating to well above lightspeed almost immediately. Whatever your opinion is about the aesthetics of the Marioverse, there's no reason not to take any of these abilities at face value, once we adjust for gameplay mechanics where possible.

Regarding Bowser "losing" - that's really all it is, isn't it? In spite of Mario's considerable physical power, well above a lot of comic book superheroes, we never see him actually batter Bowser into submission, do we? He always triggers some environmental hazard that allows him to bypass Bowser long enough to recover Peach, and Bowser tenaciously comes back to try again later. Mario hasn't so much as afflicted Bowser with a bruise, not even when throwing him headfirst into explosives. You can call that "cartoon physics" if you like, but that still shouldn't disqualify it from inclusion.

On the other hand, he does have his own army and magical powers, and he's certainly no lightweight in close combat. He'd probably use minions to do what the Hulk does by brute force, but he might well still pull it all off.

No minions, to be clear; not unless the character temporarily generates them on the spot, like King Dedede.

How so? What things has it survived, that we can be sure Iron Man armor would not survive?

A BDZ, from the looks of pages 115-119. It's also worth pointing out that in non-Smash games, she can usually screw attack for extended periods of time, which more or less amounts to flight.

So far as I know, in that game, we never saw Fierce Deity Link fight anything but the incarnation of Majora's Mask, and it's hard to accurately evaluate the power of such an entity. Its ability to perform amazing magical feats like shifting the moon in its orbit or magically binding giants does not mean that its avatar is any tougher a customer than, say, Ganondorf. Being a mighty sorceror who can work incredibly powerful complicated spells doesn't necessarily help much when some lunatic is whaling on you with a sword right there.

You can transform into Fierce Deity Link to fight any of the bosses in MM and can usually defeat them in two or three swings of the sword, either by hitting them with the beams or the blade. Deity Link is also a lot tougher than normal Link, so he's a good match for Thor in this form.


Anyways, I may as well post a team here, so here's how I'd do this:

1) Bowser: I've been arguing on his behalf more than anyone, so I may as well own him. Comes with flying battleships from which to host the team, he can tank any blow that the Chitauri or Avengers can dish out while wreaking merry hell all across the battlefield with claws, flame and black magic. He's not as slow as commonly believed to be, capable of breaking out into sprints in many games and leaping five stories high to get back onto the boss platform in SM64, so his athleticism can match the Hulk's in every needed regard here.

2) Lucario: A hadouken-throwing fighter who can sense the life-auras of all living things around it will make it hard for the enemy to hide, but it'll also be great at finding and recovering trapped and injured civilians.

3) Fox McCloud: I won't be bringing Great Fox or his Arwing, but with his jetpack from SF: Adventures, blaster pistol, shoulder-mounted heavy blaster, G-diffuser reflector and funky dinosaur-dropping bo staff, he should be able to keep Iron Man from operating with impunity.

4) Luigi: He's in the same ballpark as Mario physically, but has some unique combat abilities like the Green Missile from the Smash games, and his Ultra Hammer and Thunder Hand lightning-control technique from the Mario & Luigi series on DS. He's probably not as powerful as the other guy here with a hammer who can control lightning, but he's more than a match for some of the other characters.

5) Link: In case the lack of a sharpshooter or person with a sacred weapon turns out to be a serious liability against the Avengers, the Majora's Mask Fierce Deity Link will hedge the bets back to where they ought to be.

6) Captain Falcon: Not just an ordinary man who happens to have a floating space car, this dude is capable of dishing out serious hurt without breaking a sweat. His obscene reaction times from F-Zero racing exceeds those of anyone else here and will make him practically impossible to hit, and in the anime is capable of this. One look at this and even Thanos is going to "nope" his way to the furthest spiral arm he can find in a damn hurry.

[Simon_Jester]

Given that Bowser tends to lose to a man who just plain isn't that big and never seemed to me to be that superhumanly strong, I hadn't figured he was operating at that power level, so much as he was benefiting from cartoon physics.

Jub has already posted that Mario can run at 20m/s and shatter brick cubes four times his own body volume into rubble with a single blow, but he also can hold his breath and strenuously swim five minutes, hammer throw Bowser the length of a hockey rink, jump dozens of feet in the air, survive thousand-foot falls, tear down castles bearhanded and survive accelerating to well above lightspeed almost immediately. Whatever your opinion is about the aesthetics of the Marioverse, there's no reason not to take any of these abilities at face value, once we adjust for gameplay mechanics where possible.

Hm.

I do not recall reading the part where Jub detailed these things but I concede that they are accurate representations of gameplay (except that I missed the part where he tore down a castle barehanded, and accelerated to FTL speeds).

It's simply that if someone told me Mario was really only on the power level of, say, Captain America, I would believe him. He moves around in a cartoonish universe where it's hard to say what physical feats are or are not possible for him, and he may struggle with objects or obstacles in one place that he should easily be able to destroy in other places. Questions arise like "If the man can shatter big piles of solidly assembled bricks with his bare hands, how come he can't punch down wooden partitions in another place?"

Regarding Bowser "losing" - that's really all it is, isn't it? In spite of Mario's considerable physical power, well above a lot of comic book superheroes, we never see him actually batter Bowser into submission, do we? He always triggers some environmental hazard that allows him to bypass Bowser long enough to recover Peach, and Bowser tenaciously comes back to try again later. Mario hasn't so much as afflicted Bowser with a bruise, not even when throwing him headfirst into explosives. You can call that "cartoon physics" if you like, but that still shouldn't disqualify it from inclusion.

Okay, that's a fair point, the main reason I tend to reject cartoon physics from consideration is that it's almost impossible to analyze. If you have a guy who's invulnerable to being thrown head-first into a mountain of dynamite one day, and who can be seriously inconvenienced by a (not too thick) collapsing ceiling the next, it's hard to get a consistent picture of his capabilities.

Bowser does, as I recall, seem to be nigh-invulnerable in many of his appearances.

On the other hand, he does have his own army and magical powers, and he's certainly no lightweight in close combat. He'd probably use minions to do what the Hulk does by brute force, but he might well still pull it all off.

No minions, to be clear; not unless the character temporarily generates them on the spot, like King Dedede.

Sorry, I'd forgotten that rule.

How so? What things has it survived, that we can be sure Iron Man armor would not survive?

A BDZ, from the looks of pages 115-119. It's also worth pointing out that in non-Smash games, she can usually screw attack for extended periods of time, which more or less amounts to flight.

Hm. OK, hadn't even heard of the comic books, let alone read them. Conceded, her armor is at least tough enough to take any heat Iron Man can take, and probably to take more than he can dish out, if she really was at or very near the hypocenter of that explosion.

So far as I know, in that game, we never saw Fierce Deity Link fight anything but the incarnation of Majora's Mask, and it's hard to accurately evaluate the power of such an entity. Its ability to perform amazing magical feats like shifting the moon in its orbit or magically binding giants does not mean that its avatar is any tougher a customer than, say, Ganondorf. Being a mighty sorceror who can work incredibly powerful complicated spells doesn't necessarily help much when some lunatic is whaling on you with a sword right there.

You can transform into Fierce Deity Link to fight any of the bosses in MM and can usually defeat them in two or three swings of the sword, either by hitting them with the beams or the blade. Deity Link is also a lot tougher than normal Link, so he's a good match for Thor in this form.

Ah. Hm... maybe. I suppose I can buy that...

1) Bowser: I've been arguing on his behalf more than anyone, so I may as well own him. Comes with flying battleships from which to host the team, he can tank any blow that the Chitauri or Avengers can dish out while wreaking merry hell all across the battlefield with claws, flame and black magic. He's not as slow as commonly believed to be, capable of breaking out into sprints in many games and leaping five stories high to get back onto the boss platform in SM64, so his athleticism can match the Hulk's in every needed regard here.

Accepted.

3) Fox McCloud: I won't be bringing Great Fox or his Arwing, but with his jetpack from SF: Adventures, blaster pistol, shoulder-mounted heavy blaster, G-diffuser reflector and funky dinosaur-dropping bo staff, he should be able to keep Iron Man from operating with impunity.

Just how good is that personal shield of his? I... wouldn't count on him surviving Iron Man weaponry unless it's very good.