Avengers: Age of Ultron Leak

[Mr Bean]

Maybe Cap is worthy, but he is still just nowhere near strong enough anyway?

To those that are worthy it weighs no more than it needs to.

*Edit remember this is comic book logic, Thor can plunk it down on Loki chest who can't move it period yet it does not slam through Loki chest into the ground despite Loki being strong enough to pick up two hundred plus pound people. Not to mention Thor set it down on a coffee table. While you can dump a hundred pound weight on one of those I don't think it will take five hundred and Captain can bench several hundred.

[Gaidin]

An important detail on the halfway point of putting it on Loki's chest and it not crush through it to the ground is that Loki could still semi-comfortably breathe and yet not lift it off.

[FSTargetDrone]

There's already been discussion here regarding the properties of the hammer--Hulk was unable to budge it from an interior deck of the Helicarrier in Avengers, to the point where his feet where digging into the metal floor, but the hammer also hung from a simple coat hook in Thor: The Dark World without tearing it from the wall. Clearly, it does what Thor wants it to.

[Batman]

In 'Thor 2' Thor hung the damned thing on a coat rack. No, I don't think Mjolnir simply being really really heavy is the answer.

[FSTargetDrone]

In 'Thor 2' Thor hung the damned thing on a coat rack. No, I don't think Mjolnir simply being really really heavy is the answer.

Plus the numerous times he's seen merely controlling its flight. It does exactly what it needs to do when he needs it to do it.

[Lord Revan]

the way I understood it is that Hammer cannot moved relative to the surface it's resting on if you're not worthy, hence the Helicarrier can move while the hammer is onboard but the Hulk can't lift it from the floor onboard the helicarrier.

we got remember that Asgardians either use literal magic or technology so advanced that it might as well be magic

[FSTargetDrone]

the way I understood it is that Hammer cannot moved relative to the surface it's resting on if you're not worthy, hence the Helicarrier can move while the hammer is onboard but the Hulk can't lift it from the floor onboard the helicarrier.

we got remember that Asgardians either use literal magic or technology so advanced that it might as well be magic

And Mjolnir is bound to Thor such that he probably doesn't need to even overtly think about the details when wielding it.

[Kojiro]

I love that scene. I thought long ago about Stark trying to lift it and this is beautiful to my inner geek. That said as soon as she saw it my partner declared it a hint for Cap actually wielding the hammer later.

What would be interesting would be if Ultron tried to lift Mjolnir. Either he'd fail, which wouldn't be a surprise and boring or he'd lift it. But if he lifts it there are possibilities. A) he's simply so strong he can negate the spell- highly doubtful and B) he lifts it easily and nothing happens. This to me would actually be interesting, since it seems at least part of Ultron's personality is that he is 'a real boy now'. He is a fully sentient, alive being. To have Mjolnir treat him like the coat rack or helicarrier- just another inanimate object, would be deeply troubling to him I suspect.

Or he never tries and I'm just geeking out a lot.

[Tsyroc]

I love that scene. I thought long ago about Stark trying to lift it and this is beautiful to my inner geek. That said as soon as she saw it my partner declared it a hint for Cap actually wielding the hammer later.

What would be interesting would be if Ultron tried to lift Mjolnir. Either he'd fail, which wouldn't be a surprise and boring or he'd lift it. But if he lifts it there are possibilities. A) he's simply so strong he can negate the spell- highly doubtful and B) he lifts it easily and nothing happens. This to me would actually be interesting, since it seems at least part of Ultron's personality is that he is 'a real boy now'. He is a fully sentient, alive being. To have Mjolnir treat him like the coat rack or helicarrier- just another inanimate object, would be deeply troubling to him I suspect.

Or he never tries and I'm just geeking out a lot.

In the comics some artificial beings have had some luck moving Mjolnir. The Air Walker robot was able to hold it without it dropping from his grasp*. Some of Hephaestus' automatons were able to move it from it's resting point but it took a lot of time, effort and pulleys and the like.

So it could be interesting. Ultron might be able to lift and move the hammer but not access any of it's powers. It might be cool if Ultron lifts the hammer but slowly the worthiness aspect kicks in as Ultron becomes more "alive", or the hammer adjust to Ultron as a being. I've seen some posters suggesting that the Vision is going to be in the movie. Perhaps at some future point the Vision not being able to move Mjolnir will be proof that he is alive?


*The Air Walker robot was also more susceptible to Mjolnir going through his chest when compared to a living Herald of Galactus.

[LadyTevar]

The 'hang on coat hanger' was one of the funniest 'blink and you miss it' scenes in Marvel. Mjolnir seems to become inert when Thor sets it down, as if it become quantum-locked to one place, not harming what it's on, but unable to be removed from that position. Only one who is 'worthy' can release Mjolnir from that lockdown, and then the Hammer becomes suited to their level of strength and becomes deadly weapon of destruction.

[The Cooler King]

In the comics some artificial beings have had some luck moving Mjolnir. The Air Walker robot was able to hold it without it dropping from his grasp*. Some of Hephaestus' automatons were able to move it from it's resting point but it took a lot of time, effort and pulleys and the like.

So it could be interesting. Ultron might be able to lift and move the hammer but not access any of it's powers. It might be cool if Ultron lifts the hammer but slowly the worthiness aspect kicks in as Ultron becomes more "alive", or the hammer adjust to Ultron as a being. I've seen some posters suggesting that the Vision is going to be in the movie. Perhaps at some future point the Vision not being able to move Mjolnir will be proof that he is alive?


*The Air Walker robot was also more susceptible to Mjolnir going through his chest when compared to a living Herald of Galactus.

Don't forget that Beta Ray Bill, probably THE most worthy apart from Odin and Thor himself, was an artificial being (a cyborg, or more accurately, a robot with an organic brain), and was easily able to wield the hammer and all of its properties. At the Baltimore Comic Con a few years back, Walt Simonson mentioned that what the Asgardians would consider 'worthy' would be very different from what we would consider worthy:

One of the cool things about Thor was the enchantment around Mjolnir and the original inscription on it. So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! So since then, some other big characters, people's favorites, have picked up the hammer, Captain America, Superman, whoever. But at this point, no one had ever picked up the hammer. I liked the idea of Cap walking to the bathroom and seeing it, and grabbing and just tugging, not being able to. So this had to be someone new. This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be.

[Elheru Aran]

Re Cap wielding Mjolnir:

We've already seen the Guardians of the Galaxy wield the power of an Infinity Gem when in 'sequence' together. If an IG is much more powerful than Mjolnir in overall power, I think it's possible a mortal can wield the hammer, just would have to be pretty exceptional. And Cap is nothing if not exceptional.

We'll see, though...

[Ted C]

We don't really know in the comics either, presumably because the writers know any simple explanation will be poked full of holes (especially since Deadpool qualifies). That and they have no reason to explain when we're perfectly willing to accept that it was very strict standards.

In the comics, the criteria for lifting Mjolnir is specifically "worthy in Odin's opinion". It is presumably the same in the MCU. Basically, Odin defined the criteria when he placed that enchantment on the hammer.

[Gandalf]

So since Odin effectively has admin rights over Mjolnir, what happens when he dies?

[Kojiro]

At a guess the Odinforce (which is presumably the source of said admin rights) passes to whomever he has named as his successor which is undoubtedly Thor.

[Eternal_Freedom]

At a guess the Odinforce (which is presumably the source of said admin rights) passes to whomever he has named as his successor which is undoubtedly Thor.

What if Thor then has a massive self-confidence crisis and doesn't deem himself "worthy?" That would be...weird.

[Kojiro]

It would depend if he actually 'updated' the definition I suppose. In Avengers we see Thor, after Coulson's death, clearly concerned and hesitant about trying to pick up Mjolnir again after his 'failure' to stop Loki's schemes. He clearly doubts himself but Mjolnir is picked up because whatever Thor is feeling, he's still worthy in Odin's eyes.

But if he has the Odinforce than presumably he could simply reset or alter the parameters to suit himself. Perhaps the Odinforce simply overrides Mjolnir's other instructions- Odin certainly has no trouble snatching Mjolnir from Thor (though that's before 'charm' is added). Either way Odin clearly has a level of power/authority over Thor and Mjolnir which would presumably pass to Thor.

[Elheru Aran]

In the comics, whenever Thor has had the Odinforce, he's never had issues with Mjolnir. My headcanon is that basically Mjolnir will obey whoever has the Odinforce ('admin rights', as Gandalf put it) without question regardless of however that person is feeling.

[Tsyroc]

In the comics, whenever Thor has had the Odinforce, he's never had issues with Mjolnir. My headcanon is that basically Mjolnir will obey whoever has the Odinforce ('admin rights', as Gandalf put it) without question regardless of however that person is feeling.

During "The Reigning" storyline he had the Odinforce and he lost the ability to wield Mjolnir after he killed Jake Olson. Olson had been linked to Thor for a time until Odin separated them back into two people. Odin never got a chance to put them back together correctly before he died. Supposedly Thor killed his human half when he killed Jake.

I keep thinking that I read a story where Thor (or some character) was able to use the Odinforce to fake being worthy of Mjolnir by overpowering the hammer's magic enough that he could still carry the hammer but I can't remember where I read that.

[Havok]

Mjolnir determines who is worthy. Odin simply created the enchantment, he's not sitting up there watching Thor and keeping tabs on who is trying to lift it and giving a thumbs up or down.

Mjolnir is based on Asgardian magic/science and was forged by the dwarves. Odin really doesn't have much to do with it at all. Again, he just put the enchantment/lock on it.
The Odin Force isn't what makes Asgard stuff work. It is just the highest from of magic/energy manipulation they have. In the comics, it's a cosmic level power the likes of which can challenge Galactus IIRC. Odin and his father just happen to view the 9 realms as the be all end all of existence so luckily, they never venture out with the power and the rest of the universe doesn't have to give it much thought.

[Kojiro]

Mjolnir determines who is worthy. Odin simply created the enchantment, he's not sitting up there watching Thor and keeping tabs on who is trying to lift it and giving a thumbs up or down.

That's debatable in the MCU. In the first Thor movie, when Thor is dying/killed by the Destroyer there is a cut back to Odin. Odin is clearly aware of what's going on- hence the tear at Thor's sacrifice. It's not proof of course, but it always seemed to me that it implied the possibility that Odin relaxed the enchantment simply to save Thor, as he's been said to do with others in times of great need.

Whether or not he did alter the enchantment is debatable but he does appear to be up there watching in some fashion.

[Havok]

Nooooo, Thor just lived up to the enchantment Odin placed on it. He became worthy through the act of self sacrifice and for realizing how important the "little" people actually were. Whether Asguardians or Midguardians. Odin would certainly be aware of something, but I think only Heimdale can see everything.

I also don't remember any scenes or cuts to Odin watching, but I'll take your word for it until I watch it again.

[Havok]

One of the cool things about Thor was the enchantment around Mjolnir and the original inscription on it. So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! So since then, some other big characters, people's favorites, have picked up the hammer, Captain America, Superman, whoever. But at this point, no one had ever picked up the hammer. I liked the idea of Cap walking to the bathroom and seeing it, and grabbing and just tugging, not being able to. So this had to be someone new. This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be.

Walt Simonson is a fucking pimp. This is by far the best interpretation of the 'worthy' issue.

[Iroscato]

I seem to remember Odin not watching per se, but a tear rolled down his cheek when Thor appeared to have been killed, implying he was keeping an eye on things. I always interpreted it as Odin recognising Thor's worthiness and telling the hammer to go to him. After, he was the one who took the hammer and armour from Thor at the start of the film.

[Havok]

Oh right, he was in the Odin Sleep. So yeah, he wasn't watching per se, but literally felt Thor's death as a mortal.