Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, interesting new episode tonight.

The involvement of Struker is interesting. Isn't he going to be in Avengers 2?

Loved finally seeing Ward back in the mix, and Coulson's plan to wipe his memories is intriguing.

Also, 33 can change her appearance, right? Who wants to bet that its not actually Coulson who surrendered at the end?

[The Romulan Republic]

And I'm getting a bit tired of both Simmons and May's take on the conflict between the two versions of SHIELD.

On the one hand, Simmons kept secrets from her boss and aided fugitives while working for an intelligence agency, so what did she expect? May's right that she's lucky to not be locked up. And Coulson did hide stuff.

On the other hand, May and Coulson are spies. Spies hide things. May knows how this works. But now she's upset and switching sides because Coulson hid stuff? She should bloody grow up. Like she didn't spy on Coulson for a year for the previous director of SHIELD.

[Gaidin]

Also, 33 can change her appearance, right? Who wants to bet that its not actually Coulson who surrendered at the end?

She wasn't able to change her voice when she changed gender after breaking into the Pentagon.

[biostem]

And I'm getting a bit tired of both Simmons and May's take on the conflict between the two versions of SHIELD.

On the one hand, Simmons kept secrets from her boss and aided fugitives while working for an intelligence agency, so what did she expect? May's right that she's lucky to not be locked up. And Coulson did hide stuff.

On the other hand, May and Coulson are spies. Spies hide things. May knows how this works. But now she's upset and switching sides because Coulson hid stuff? She should bloody grow up. Like she didn't spy on Coulson for a year for the previous director of SHIELD.

Yeah - I knew from the get-go that we were going to get a very precarious shot of Ward & Coulson together, to "validate" the concerns May had about Coulson, (despite, as you pointed out, that she had been spying on hi to the former director).

It's getting a little repetitive that Skye doesn't just talk to her father and say "you have to control yourself - THAT's why I have a problem with you".

I just hope things don't simply get resolved with a "Fury ex machina" event, with him basically reclaiming leadership of SHIELD.

I'm also kinda surprised that Ward & Coulson wouldn't think that the Hydra guy that was conditioned wouldn't turn on them - Agent 33 basically broke her condition, afterall.

We basically only have 1 episode left before Age of Ultron is released, and since Fury is in one of the trailers, either he is going to be there in a strictly independent/non-SHIELD capacity, or the issues with SHIELD will get nicely wrapped up next week...

[bilateralrope]

On the other hand, May and Coulson are spies. Spies hide things. May knows how this works. But now she's upset and switching sides because Coulson hid stuff? She should bloody grow up. Like she didn't spy on Coulson for a year for the previous director of SHIELD.

I wonder how much is May being concerned over the scale of the secrets and how much is her keeping up appearances so she will remain in a position to help Coulson when carrier SHIELD uncover what those secrets are.

Also, 33 can change her appearance, right? Who wants to bet that its not actually Coulson who surrendered at the end?

She wasn't able to change her voice when she changed gender after breaking into the Pentagon.

Even if she couldn't, SHIELD knows about the face changer. Even if they don't check for it, when it's something that will be revealed by a strip search, there is simply too much about Coulson that she doesn't know for her to be able to keep them convinced. Especially when the topic of carrier SHIELD comes up.

I'm also kinda surprised that Ward & Coulson wouldn't think that the Hydra guy that was conditioned wouldn't turn on them - Agent 33 basically broke her condition, afterall.

We don't know what Ward's plan is. For all we know, the conditioning could be holding, but that conditioning is to follow Ward's plan.

[The Romulan Republic]

I kind of hope May is faking her hostility towards Coulson.

[Gaidin]

Also, 33 can change her appearance, right? Who wants to bet that its not actually Coulson who surrendered at the end?

She wasn't able to change her voice when she changed gender after breaking into the Pentagon.

Even if she couldn't, SHIELD knows about the face changer. Even if they don't check for it, when it's something that will be revealed by a strip search, there is simply too much about Coulson that she doesn't know for her to be able to keep them convinced. Especially when the topic of carrier SHIELD comes up.

They're not exactly the most knowledgeable about Coulson either. I mean, about all both of them would have at hand is Coulson's official record. rSHIELD(if you don't mind the abbreviation) can't even be bothered to sit down in a conference room and ask him a question. They just go in guns blazing. And assuming this is backed by Coulson and she *could* speak in Coulson's voice, she suddenly has a major advantage. But again, all known evidence points to 33 being unable to speak in a male voice.

I'm pretty sure this is literally Coulson going "take me to your leader" and he's going to go "almost found my lost person you tried to kill in a gamble but that didn't work so, ask your idiotic questions you were to scared to ask without a gun to my head before". The difference? No Toolbox to hold over him. He holds the cards.

[Ted C]

Also, 33 can change her appearance, right? Who wants to bet that its not actually Coulson who surrendered at the end?

She can only change her face. There's no way she could pass for Coulson.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay. I've missed a lot of this season so I wasn't sure.

[Lord Revan]

Okay. I've missed a lot of this season so I wasn't sure.

they said in the episode where they restored the mask that voice chip was damaged, and was stuck in May's voice. I wonder if they're having Ming-na Wen dubbing over the actress playing agent 33 or just having that actress use her normal voice and imply that voice chip was turned off.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, the new episode tonight was interesting.

I have to say that it felt contrived, I'm having a hard time buying Ward's change of heart, and they made Simmons and May into complete assholes. I mean, May is jeopardizing a crucial mission and threatens to shoot Coulson because... she's pissed that he worked with her ex without conferring with her first? Give me a fucking break. That's not just crappy characterization, its arguably misogynistic.

That said, Skye kicks ass (to the point that its not entirely believable), Ward's stuff was mostly good, Mack and Hunter's reconciliation was pretty nice, and I'm impressed that they actually made me root for Ward over Simmons. Though it says something about how screwy things have gotten that Ward can actually justifiable call out Simmons. Also, it was nice to see Coulson call out May a bit (though he really should have said a lot more on that score if not for the fact that he needed her support) and spring Fury being alive on that racist shit running the hyper racist SHIELD.

And the end. Holy shit. A Maria Hill cameo and they actually had the events of this episode be the set up for Age of Ultron. I wasn't expecting that.

Looks like next episode will be a throw down between racist SHIELD and the Inhumans.

[biostem]

Yeah... the thing with Ward is confusing. At first, I thought that he was basically amoral, and completely conditioned by Garrett to do whatever he ordered. Then once Garrett was dead, he seemingly went on a rampage and killed his parents and brother. Now he's trying to play it off like he just made a few bad calls? I mean, he seemed genuine about Agent 33, but I still can't accept that he's actually trying to redeem himself. Perhaps he legitimately lacks any sense of right and wrong...

As for the whole "Theta Protocol" thing - it would have been more interesting if it did in fact turn out to be that Coulson was diverting funds to repair the original Helicarrier.

Did they ever explain how Gordon senses his surroundings? He can apparently tell if someone is calling for him, (as demonstrated when he met Skye at the safehouse and told her to call for him if she needed). Why couldn't he just teleport into the cell and rescue the electric guy and Deathlok? I know they said Hydra could track him, but were they able to actually respond that quickly?

I was really hoping to see Sam Jackson make another cameo and kinda set things straight, (though I guess they'll get to that eventually, as James Olmos's character seems to resent Fury anyway).

[The Romulan Republic]

I think Ward has a sense of right and wrong, but he tended toward obsessive loyalty and didn't have the strength of character to do what he felt was right- probably a tendency that was beaten into him by his family. See his following Garret and his obsession with Skye. He's basically a very weak, easily influenced person.

But once Garret was gone, Ward was kicked out of SHIELD, Skye rejected him (by shooting him no less), and his family was dead, all those old ties were severed. I remember he said something to 33 after Skye shot him about her being free now, and it occurred to me that he was speaking about himself as well- for the first time in his life, Grant Ward got to be, in some sense, his own man. I think that also potentially explains why he told Coulson that he liked who he was now (which Coulson seemed taken aback by).

And I actually think Ward is beginning to admit the magnitude of his own failiure, and that's a big step forward. Previously, I don't think he had admitted, to himself, much less to others, what he did. And I think he's more or less on the level when he says he regrets ruining his relationships with Coulson's team- Ward's a rather pathetic person who's never had a decent family and keeps latching obsessively onto others. Which means that letting 33 go is also a sign of real growth, even if he did it behind her back.

Their might be things that contradict that, but overall I think this fits, in my non-professional psychologist opinion.

I think that, when they write him well, Ward's a very nuanced character. There's a reason he's probably my favourite villain in the Marvel film universe.

But he definitely still has an asshole side. His repeatedly taunting May about their relationship was just crass and spiteful.

Edit: What I find makes his redemption unconvincing is hard to pin down. But I guess it seems too complete at the end of the last episode, especially given that he doesn't seem to have any real self-loathing even after everything he's done, even if he said something along the lines of not deserving to be forgiven in his final call to Coulson. They just didn't sell it somehow.

[Gaidin]

But he definitely still has an asshole side. His repeatedly taunting May about their relationship was just crass and spiteful.

Edit: What I find makes his redemption unconvincing is hard to pin down. But I guess it seems too complete at the end of the last episode, especially given that he doesn't seem to have any real self-loathing even after everything he's done, even if he said something along the lines of not deserving to be forgiven in his final call to Coulson. They just didn't sell it somehow.

One, I agree with all I cut out.

And two more things.

First, not that I blame May for her sheer readiness to outright shoot Ward, but I'm willing to bet that's Ward's version of a quid pro quo on that level for the taunting. And Second, I don't think he may ever get a redemption so much as an attempt at one. Every character gets an attempt at one. Whether they ever get there or not is another question. If Ward never tries he's never interesting. And whether it's redemption or 'they're not going to let me even try so I'll just go on' ala Simmons' little stunt and such. The only one that seemed, shall I say, on at least a business level with him was Coulson.

[bilateralrope]

Previously Fury has been unhappy about the Bus getting damaged. How is he going to react to finding out that, not only was it blown up, but that getting it destroyed was part of Coulson's plan ?

I know they said Hydra could track him, but were they able to actually respond that quickly?

Think about how little time it took for Hydra to cut his forehead. Remember that his teleport bubble has some protective capability, giving Hydra even less time.

Maybe Hydra got lucky. But, after that, it's easy to see why he wouldn't want to go into a Hydra base that is actively experimenting on powered people.

[biostem]

But wasn't Hydra tracking Gordon's movements - in other words, seeing that he teleported AFTER the fact? Are his teleports *not* instantaneous? Maybe there's actually some transit time that isn't portrayed on-screen?

[bilateralrope]

But wasn't Hydra tracking Gordon's movements - in other words, seeing that he teleported AFTER the fact? Are his teleports *not* instantaneous? Maybe there's actually some transit time that isn't portrayed on-screen?

Could be. All we know is that he was gone from Afterlife* for mere seconds, before returning with that cut.

*Am I the only one who thinks that Afterlife is a creepy name for a sanctuary ?

[Iroscato]

Excellent episode, best one of the whole show so far IMO. It had a bit of everything, and it was everything I imagined the show could potentially be back in 2013 when it was about to premiere. It may be a spike in quality due to the tie-in with AoU, but it does does keep getting better.
I think Fury will find it in himself to forgive Coulson for losing the Bus, after a bit of slapping about of course
And it looks like Raina's stirring up shit with the Inhumans. Perhaps this will be setting up a schism in the community that explodes in the eventual movie and have two factions fighting. The Inhumans are basically the MCU's answer to mutants - or at least, they will be - so I can see that making sense.Also, good to see the show taking a leaf out of the still-better (though the gap is slowly closing IMO) Daredevil with the one-shot fight scene, that was awesome.

[biostem]

Excellent episode, best one of the whole show so far IMO. It had a bit of everything, and it was everything I imagined the show could potentially be back in 2013 when it was about to premiere. It may be a spike in quality due to the tie-in with AoU, but it does does keep getting better.
I think Fury will find it in himself to forgive Coulson for losing the Bus, after a bit of slapping about of course
And it looks like Raina's stirring up shit with the Inhumans. Perhaps this will be setting up a schism in the community that explodes in the eventual movie and have two factions fighting. The Inhumans are basically the MCU's answer to mutants - or at least, they will be - so I can see that making sense.Also, good to see the show taking a leaf out of the still-better (though the gap is slowly closing IMO) Daredevil with the one-shot fight scene, that was awesome.

On the subject of the Inhumans - they seemed to make a big deal about Skye having been directly exposed to the mist - does that mean that they have some *other* way of bringing about the change? I mean, Skye's father seemed 100% confident that Skye would/could undergo the change - so is there some definitive way of knowing who can/will go through that process, or can we chalk it up to him being crazy?

[Lord Revan]

I got the impression (mind you I've not seen the most recent episode yet) that any Inhuman exposed to the mists will change 100% of the time and the elders at afterlife are actually choosing who gets exposed, it would mesh with russian woman stealing the crystals for her daughter. Also I got impression it's not so much being exposed to the mists directly that's the big deal but that it was in the temple and basically uncontrolled.

And Skye's father might know this too.

[The Romulan Republic]

Previously Fury has been unhappy about the Bus getting damaged. How is he going to react to finding out that, not only was it blown up, but that getting it destroyed was part of Coulson's plan ?

I know they said Hydra could track him, but were they able to actually respond that quickly?

Think about how little time it took for Hydra to cut his forehead. Remember that his teleport bubble has some protective capability, giving Hydra even less time.

Maybe Hydra got lucky. But, after that, it's easy to see why he wouldn't want to go into a Hydra base that is actively experimenting on powered people.

Hey, Fury made Coulson the director of SHIELD. I guess that means he gets the final say on when SHIELD gear gets blown up.

[Iroscato]

Welp, that meeting went about as well as could be expected. Fantastic job all round
Jiaying surprised me at the end, though I guess I really should've seen it coming. And I can sympathise with her to a point, even.
I was sure Bobbi was dead, that was definitely a headshot Ward tagged her with. Even an ICER would kill or cause severe brain damage, surely?
A very good, butt-clenching episode overall, looking forward to the finale.

[The Romulan Republic]

Missed it due to a job. Fortunately I should be able to catch the finale.

So Ward's back to enemy status now? Pity, but not unpredictable.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Damnit, I liked Gonzales!

And, y'know, given all that Jaying (or however it's spelt) was talking about fear and so on, she decides to launch a fucking war? That seems...dubious at best.

[Adrian McNair]

So Ward's back to enemy status now? Pity, but not unpredictable.

Why is it a "pity"? Ward certainly isn't worthy of redemption or of rejoining the team (not without seriously damaging the credibility/intelligence of everyone on Team Coulson) after everything he's done. No, I prefer the way the writers are utilising him - as a wildcard/unpredictable third party. One of my favourite moments from the previous episode was when Ward makes his completely unconvincing apology and the team shuts him down. They're having none of it and neither am I.

Besides, the last thing we need is for those braindead SkyeWard shippers/Ward apologists out there to be vindicated. You should hear the stomach-churning excuses they keep making for the pretty-boy Nazi. Honestly, I doubt Ward would have the pull that he does if he were being played by say...Pruitt Taylor Vince.