Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

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Season 2, Ep 1: Give your Opinion

Poll ended at 2014-10-01 12:37am

1 Star: Coulson needs to give up
0
No votes
2 Star: Coulson might pull it off
1
11%
3 Star: Good team effort. Pity about the arm.
3
33%
4 Star: Who needs the Bus?
4
44%
5 Star: Excelsior!
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9

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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by biostem »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Damnit, I liked Gonzales!

And, y'know, given all that Jaying (or however it's spelt) was talking about fear and so on, she decides to launch a fucking war? That seems...dubious at best.
It was interesting to see Raina be right about both her visions and not to let Jai-Ying handle the negotiations. I think that we'll see more about how she basically only allows those who are loyal to her to go through the change, and perhaps she was set off by Gonzalez trying to compare his leg injury to her being vivisected alive. Given her longevity, I wouldn't be surprised if she has been fostering a superiority complex for a while now.

Now that Shield has access to Cal's serum, I wonder what will come of that.

I can somewhat understand Agent 33 returning to Ward, but it's not like they could keep a quinjet indefinitely. While Ward is resourceful, I can't believe that, at this point, even he has enough money and facilities stashed away to keep such a craft secret and fueled and maintained.

Given that Shield can now track Gordon, I suppose his abilities would be almost useless - the moment he teleports to wherever the Inhumans move to, their location will be compromised...
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

To Adrian McNair: I'd like to see Ward be redeemed and I think he could be, though I also think he's not at that point yet (and it has nothing to do with his looks- I'm a heterosexual man).

But as for Ward rejoining the team... I don't see May, Fitz, or Simmons going for that right now. Skye and Coulson, however, seemed willing to work with him more or less respectfully provided he didn't cause problems (if only temporarily). That said, I'm thinking of Ward more as a neutral party/occasional ally than a member of Coulson's force.

I agree that Skye and Ward should not get together, however. To compare Agents of SHIELD to another Joss Whedon show, it bothers me how Buffy remains in love with, and gets back together with, her various abusive exes despite supposedly being a strong female character. That Skye was willing to apparently reject Ward for good actually made her a stronger character in comparison. Even if she forgave Ward, even if she worked with Ward, I wouldn't want to see her in a relationship with him- it would destroy perhaps the most appealing thing about her characterization for me. No, that bridge should be burned for good.

Edited.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Truth be told, I think that if May's attitude of late is any indication, her relationship with Coulson is strained enough that if he invited Ward back permanently, she'd either shoot him, depose him, or defect. And Fitz and Simmons might walk too. Even if Coulson felt Ward could be useful, it wouldn't be worth alienating half his team.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

I also think there's a difference between Ward being redeemed and SHIELD trusting him as far as they can throw him... One doesn't require the other.

Aside: Does SHIELD really have access to Cal's serum, or a few foreshadowingly partially empty bottles as Jai-Ying gets all paranoid?
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by GuppyShark »

My guess is that Cal was loaded up on serum so he could 'rescue' Skye from SHIELD after Jai-Ying's war starts.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Lord Revan »

it seems I was right about Theta Protocol being the orginal Helicarrier (check the age of ultron thread for my post about that), as soon as I heard that orginal helicarrier was suppose to be in Age of Ultron it made sense for the Theta Protocol to be about that, I mean the stuff Rodriguez said would work for any large scale project not just building an army.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Incidentally, I'm very glad I saw Age of Ultron between this episode and the previous one. It would have felt quite weird otherwise.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I, sadly, have seen neither.

I'm planning to do a Marvel-themed double feature on Tuesday- go to see Age of Ultron in the afternoon and then watch this season's finale of Agents of SHIELD that night.

Does the newest episode tie in to Age of Ultron heavily?
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by RogueIce »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I, sadly, have seen neither.

I'm planning to do a Marvel-themed double feature on Tuesday- go to see Age of Ultron in the afternoon and then watch this season's finale of Agents of SHIELD that night.

Does the newest episode tie in to Age of Ultron heavily?
Not hugely, though of course it's mentioned and you'll see the helicarrier, which I guess is a spoiler. Various incidents and plot points in AoU are important, but only in placing context for Gonzalez's mindset in the episode, regarding powered people and his feelings toward Coulson.

IOW, it's not necessary to see AoU, but it is helpful and adds some additional context and understanding.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Adrian McNair »

The Romulan Republic wrote:To Adrian McNair: I'd like to see Ward be redeemed and I think he could be, though I also think he's not at that point yet
Why? Why is it necessary that he be redeemed? What makes you think he even can be? He isn't worthy of it. If Ward tried to pick up Mjolnir it would drag him down to the centre of the Earth. That's how unworthy he is. This latest episode proved that his latest act of altruism was in fact nothing more than a ruse which led to Morse's capture (the implication being that he and Kara Palamas are going to brainwash and perhaps torture her before killing her). He's too unpredictable and untrustworthy. He's left behind too much wreckage in his wake. Fitz's brain damage is a testament to that. Does every scumbag in fiction have to be redeemed as seems to be the trend nowadays? I don't believe so. As far as I'm concerned the only way Ward can make up for his deplorable past is to sacrifice himself for the greater good. Anything else would be hollow.

But don't get me wrong I like what they've done with his character. He was a generic slab of beefcake before his true nature came to light, revealing something far more interesting. I just don't want his continued survival to come at the expense of the show like it did with Heroes' treatment of Sylar (that was a clusterfuck and a half). Thankfully that hasn't happened thus far.
(and it has nothing to do with his looks- I'm a heterosexual man).
I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned that. I was merely giving voice to my frustration towards the legions of idiot fangirls who seem to be watching a different show. The one where he's some sort of tortured anti-hero rather than a villain and ends up getting the girl. They gloss over his transgressions and mention his upbringing as though that's a legitimate excuse for his actions! It's the bad boy effect, pure and simple.
But as for Ward rejoining the team... I don't see May, Fitz, or Simmons going for that right now. Skye and Coulson, however, seemed willing to work with him more or less respectfully provided he didn't cause problems (if only temporarily). That said, I'm thinking of Ward more as a neutral party/occasional ally than a member of Coulson's force.
Even so, Coulson was uneasy about the whole affair and Skye openly said that she didn't regret shooting him. This current development with Morse makes any future team-up unlikely. Given that HYDRA has suffered several crippling blows of late his value as an intel source is negligible. So he doesn't even have that going for him. The impression I've had this season is that Ward has been working an angle the entire time. Any positive acts are deceptions that further his ulterior motive. They'd be fools to let him back into the fold. The situation would have to be truly dire for them to work with him again. The only reason why the most recent team-up made any sense was because Ward had a brainwashed Bakshi to use as a pawn.
I agree that Skye and Ward should not get together, however. To compare Agents of SHIELD to another Joss Whedon show, it bothers me how Buffy remains in love with, and gets back together with, her various abusive exes despite supposedly being a strong female character. That Skye was willing to apparently reject Ward for good actually made her a stronger character in comparison. Even if she forgave Ward, even if she worked with Ward, I wouldn't want to see her in a relationship with him- it would destroy perhaps the most appealing thing about her characterization for me. No, that bridge should be burned for good.
Well, that's something we can agree on at least. Yes, it was quite refreshing that Skye didn't fall for Ward's bullshit and was actually disgusted with him. A lesser show would have made her forgive him eventually. On the other hand her relationship with Lincoln is unremarkable but inoffensive. For the moment it does seem as though she'll end up with him which I'm fine with since it removes the possibility of SkyeWard. Try telling that to some of the die-hards on Tumblr, though. Their willful denials and stupidity are just nauseating.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The show has been renewed for a third season. Agent Carter has also been renewed.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/07/on ... c-renewals
Great news out of ABC: The network has renewed 10 dramas and six comedies.

Related
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On the drama side, Castle, Grey’s Anatomy, How to Get Away with Murder, Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Nashville, Once Upon a Time, Scandal, American Crime, Secrets and Lies and Marvel’s Agent Carter have all scored additional seasons.

As for the comedies, freshman fare black-ish and Fresh Off the Boat join The Goldbergs, The Middle, Modern Family and Galavant. Yes, Galavant.

On the alternative side, America’s Funniest Home Videos, The Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars, Shark Tank, Beyond the Tank and 20/20 have all been renewed.

The news comes on the heels of ABC ordering six dramas, including Shonda Rhimes’ The Catch, Don Johnson’s untitled oil boom project, biblical saga Of Kings and Prophets, FBI thriller Quantico, anthology series Wicked City and the Joan Allen-starring project The Family. The network also ordered three comedies: a reboot of The Muppets, Ken Jeong’s Dr. Ken and Dan Savage’s The Real O’Neals, which stars Martha Plimpton.

But it was bad news for Forever, Resurrection and Cristela, which were canceled.

More to come: We’re in the thick of a frantic annual three-day period of TV broadcasters making big decisions, so expect more series orders today—and perhaps some verdicts on existing shows as well. Follow @jameshibberd and @natalieabrams for up-to-the-minute details.
Also, a proposed spin-off of Agents of SHIELD has been shot down.

ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/08/agents-of-shield-spinoff-not-moving-forward-at-abc
BY MATT FOWLERNow that both Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter have been renewed, questions still lingered about the SHIELD spinoff series that ABC and Marvel were developing.

As it turns out, that project is not moving ahead - according to Deadline. The show was to be a direct, contemporary spinoff of SHIELD featuring Adrianne Palicki's Bobbi Morse and Nick Blood's Hunter as leads.

We're not sure why the breaks have been put on the spinoff series, but many wondered how Agent Carter would fit into the mix if this Mockingbird/Hunter series had gone forward. Now that Agent Carter is returning, it seems the spinoff is dead. For now.
I'm pretty happy about the news (other than the stuff about the spin-off, which I don't feel strongly about).
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Iroscato »

If Ward tried to pick up Mjolnir it would drag him down to the centre of the Earth. That's how unworthy he is.
Love it :lol:
And yeah, Ward is best used as a resourceful sociopath that the team needs on occasion to help deal with A Problem. I hope they can be inventive with ways to continue that dynamic in future series.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by RogueIce »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Also, a proposed spin-off of Agents of SHIELD has been shot down.

ca.ign.com/articles/2015/05/08/agents-of-shield-spinoff-not-moving-forward-at-abc
BY MATT FOWLERNow that both Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter have been renewed, questions still lingered about the SHIELD spinoff series that ABC and Marvel were developing.

As it turns out, that project is not moving ahead - according to Deadline. The show was to be a direct, contemporary spinoff of SHIELD featuring Adrianne Palicki's Bobbi Morse and Nick Blood's Hunter as leads.

We're not sure why the breaks have been put on the spinoff series, but many wondered how Agent Carter would fit into the mix if this Mockingbird/Hunter series had gone forward. Now that Agent Carter is returning, it seems the spinoff is dead. For now.
I'm pretty happy about the news (other than the stuff about the spin-off, which I don't feel strongly about).
I didn't even know there was a spinoff in the works. :razz:

This might be for the best. I like those two, but could they carry a series alone? And what exactly would they even be doing that would differentiate them from AoS? Maybe the finale will show us whatever their "set-up" would have been and we can try and judge then?

Although spoiler alert, guess she isn't going to die if they had a spinoff planned. :lol:

I hope they'll be able to stick around on AoS though, because I like their characters.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Maybe she's going to die because the spinoff isn't going ahead. Though that would be a pity.

Also, Chimaera, I'm not sure that the term sociopath would apply to Ward. He's a villain, yes, but not all villains are sociopaths. It seems too simplistic a label to apply to Ward.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by RogueIce »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Maybe she's going to die because the spinoff isn't going ahead. Though that would be a pity.
Unless they knew way ahead of time, doubtful. If ABC didn't decide until a day or two ago, filming would have long since wrapped on a finale set to air this Tuesday. Unless they made two versions but that seems unlikely.
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This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Lord Revan »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Maybe she's going to die because the spinoff isn't going ahead. Though that would be a pity.

Also, Chimaera, I'm not sure that the term sociopath would apply to Ward. He's a villain, yes, but not all villains are sociopaths. It seems too simplistic a label to apply to Ward.
something I like about Ward as villain is that you can never be sure about him, he might telling you the truth as far as he knowns it, laying thru his teeth or someting between you just can't tell before hand (and something not even after), all too often they make character like Ward be compulsive liars to the extent that you wonder how anyone you ever trust them, but with Ward that doesn't seem to be the case.

while it's clear that in the Grant Ward's plans and plots benefit only 1 person (aka himself), he's not imcapable of using thruth, either full thruth or partial truth to gain that end.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Iroscato »

Also, Chimaera, I'm not sure that the term sociopath would apply to Ward. He's a villain, yes, but not all villains are sociopaths. It seems too simplistic a label to apply to Ward.
Yes, I see what you mean. 'Tricky Shit' would be a better label, perhaps? :P
Either way, you get what I mean I hope.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

Not just tricky shit, but he's done a lot interesting this season in severing ties to the past he doesn't like. The question sometimes comes up lately whether he's helping 33 deal with her own past. I wonder what he'll do if 33 wants a crack at Jemma. Redemption worthy or not, which I don't think it is, but just feelings. I at least happen to believe what he said regarding the loss of the team they had.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by TimothyC »

What the hell was that ending?
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

Something that will reveal what that thing is maybe...
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well that was a shitty way to end the episode. I was thinking they'd avoid the Whedon cliche of "people fall in love and something horrible happens to one of them". Still, I'll eat my hat if Simmons is really gone for good. Maybe that's just wishful thinking though.

It would take too long to go through all my other thoughts on this episode, so here are a few points:

First of all, fuck Ward. I'd still like to think he could be redeemed, but he's a sadistic, manipulative bastard and Bobbie nailed at least a couple things about him. First, he was turning 33 into someone like him, and look where it got them. 2. He keeps making excuses. The first step to redemption is admitting what you did wrong. That is the step Ward seems unable to fully take.

Second of all... Is Ward... running... Hydra...? Bloody hell. I wonder what his ultimate plan is. Revenge for 33's death (despite the fact that he killed her) would fit, though a part of me actually wondered if he's going to try to use Hydra tech. to resurrect her somehow. In any case, we can at least say that on some level, in his warped way, he seemed to truly care about her (much good it did her).

Also, Bobbi, Coulson, and Skye all got some chances to be awesome this episode, but the prize goes to Raina. She apparently knew her death was coming and, if I got the right impression, baited Skye's mother into killing her in front of Skye, exposing the villain. Raina played the arch. villain like a fiddle and saved the day. Who'd have thought it of her of all people?
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another thing... has it crossed Ward's mind that taking over Hydra could make him a big enough foe to put him on the Avengers' radar? Not that I think they're likely to show up on the show at this point.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Lord Revan »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Another thing... has it crossed Ward's mind that taking over Hydra could make him a big enough foe to put him on the Avengers' radar? Not that I think they're likely to show up on the show at this point.
While I think Ward is smart to enough to avoid Vision, War Machine (while in armor), Falcon or Cap and he does know what Black Widow is capable of so he'll probably avoid her too, he might under estimate Scarlet Witch (and Elizabeth Olsen is also probably cheap enough that it wouldn't kill the budget to include her as a guest star) hell they could even make it so that Ward is the source of the codename for her (as they called her just "Wanda Maximoff" in Age of Ultron).

That's one of Ward's biggest faults is that he can get arrogant if he doesn't think too high of his opponent.
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

It just occurred to me that Ward is not entirely responsible for 33's death. May basically manipulated things and caused that misunderstanding.

And you know, I actually feel sorry for 33. She suffered something horrible and needed psychological help. Instead she got Ward, who, whatever you may think of him, is more in need of a therapist himself than qualified to be one.

Of course, her evil and the reasons for it and Ward killing her could be seen as paralleling and foreshadowing the fate of Skye's mother.

On that note, how did Skye's mother die given her healing ability? And how did that suitcase end up in the ocean at the end?
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Re: Agents of SHIELD: Season 2 (Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

The Romulan Republic wrote: On that note, how did Skye's mother die given her healing ability? And how did that suitcase end up in the ocean at the end?
Her healing ability involves sucking the life out of someone. Not just merely healing. When she was sucking the life out of their daughter, Cal basically not only viewed his alliance with Coulson well and good, but also good times for him to make good on his promise to protect Skye even if in a way he didn't care to. He flat out killed her. Following dialogue, also so he could live with the burden of killing family and Skye didn't have to. As Coulson noted, Cal apparently was the one manipulated into being a monster where Jiaying was the actual monster. The suitcase was knocked into the ocean when Skye knocked the plane with it into the ocean, provoking Jiaying's decision to kill her.
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