Pause [RAR!]

[Borgholio]

I don't have that, so I am still at loss as to how to get the most legally-obtainable money while using the watch as minimally as possible.

You could use it to fight crime and get rich at the same time. Think about drug dealers...they usually have wads of cash on them. Pimps too. Get a rental car (just in case), and drive past them a quarter mile or so and stop time. Walk to the guy, rob him blind, walk back to the car, restart time and go. They'll never put 2 and 2 together since you'll be so far away at the time...and if they get lucky, it's a rental anyways.

[Zixinus]

By the way, am I the only one that is reminded by the power's description of a Nickelodeon show where there was a teen girl that had this power? It probably wasn't Sabrina the teenage witch, but I recall that there was one such. I saw it as a kid.

I don't have that, so I am still at loss as to how to get the most legally-obtainable money while using the watch as minimally as possible.

You could use it to fight crime and get rich at the same time. Think about drug dealers...they usually have wads of cash on them. Pimps too. Get a rental car (just in case), and drive past them a quarter mile or so and stop time. Walk to the guy, rob him blind, walk back to the car, restart time and go. They'll never put 2 and 2 together since you'll be so far away at the time...and if they get lucky, it's a rental anyways.

I may be wrong, but my city is too small and maybe too poor for street-dominating drug dealers who do their business in the open. Am now wondering where would there be criminals whom I can get pause-time-walking-distance to without being noticed. I'm sure more disreputable discos or whatever are probably such cases.

Good idea though. The people most likely harmed are drug dealers.

[Darth Tanner]

you can just use the pause-time function to go anywhere and listen to any conversation.

Would only work if you can hide somewhere within hearing range, time will be stopped after all so no one will be speaking. You could read any documents you wanted though.

I may be wrong, but my city is too small and maybe too poor for street-dominating drug dealers who do their business in the open.

I don't know about you but I would have thought too first world would have been the better objection... what sort of city has easily identifiable drug dealers on the street!

[Zixinus]

Would only work if you can hide somewhere within hearing range, time will be stopped after all so no one will be speaking. You could read any documents you wanted though.

Yes, but you don't need to hide you, you just need to hide a listening device.

You can then place a listening device (a recorder, so it will bypass wireless jamming), wait a while until its done, then use pause again to get the thing. You just need to be in sufficient walking distance to do it pause-time.

I don't know about you but I would have thought too first world would have been the better objection... what sort of city has easily identifiable drug dealers on the street!

You misunderstand: I don't think my city is too good for on-the-street drug dealers, I am saying that the city is too small and the people who'd be the clientele of such a seller too poor for the habit.

But I must stress, that I can easily be wrong. I am certain that less obvious kinds of drug dealers are almost certainly present somewhere in the city.

[Borgholio]

what sort of city has easily identifiable drug dealers on the street!

Compton. Watts. South-Central Los Angeles.

Just to name a few.

[Mr Bean]

what sort of city has easily identifiable drug dealers on the street!

Compton. Watts. South-Central Los Angeles.

Just to name a few.

To name a few more Detroit, Chicago, from what I hear stop and frisk has moved dealers inside in New York but lets toss in the entire states of New Jersey, Durham, Miami Cincinnati and a few more I can name. The styles change but dealers have territories and front men which you can pick out. Because of the war on drugs not all dealers have drugs on hand anymore but work on a delivery or courier service where money changes hands with the dealer along with a tiny sample and the main drugs are delivered later. This is of course for repeat buyers.

[Me2005]

They'll never put 2 and 2 together since you'll be so far away at the time...and if they get lucky, it's a rental anyways.

They'd never put 2 and 2 together because nothing will appear to have changed - the money will disappear from his hand while you're driving by as a part of traffic from his perspective. You could be a car on the freeway; he'd never know. Renting gives at least a partial trail, unless you're on vacation somewhere.

[Irbis]

But of course you can also use it for more lofty and hopefully beneficial role of recording politicians being their hypocritical selves behind closed doors. Record your president as he is openly talking with his staff on how to curtail the laws that he is supposed to uphold. Safeguard evidence exactly before it gets destroyed. That sort of awesome stuff.

We had that in Poland recently. The results... weren't pretty, shall we say. Politics making is often very dirty, even from normally polite and well mannered people.

Though, if I could do that to some annoying asshole opposition politicians, I would

[Zixinus]

They'd never put 2 and 2 together because nothing will appear to have changed - the money will disappear from his hand while you're driving by as a part of traffic from his perspective. You could be a car on the freeway; he'd never know. Renting gives at least a partial trail, unless you're on vacation somewhere.

Interestingly, the best solution would then be to use a stolen car. Or buy a not-noticeable junker on the black market with fake numberplates (and fake traffic license or whatever you need for a police check). This may not sound like an issue as you can always just leave a ghost car for the traffic cop but what if you need to transport more than one person? As long as you are driving within the rules and be careful to avoid parking, you should be OK though.

It might benefit to use a motorcycle even, as it would be easier to get away and you would be in motorcycle gear (or have to excuse to wear it) and thus not even identifiable by accident. This is in case you get noticed for whatever reason between pauses.

[Purple]

Honestly all that work makes me think it would be easier to hold up someone who is an easier target. Like say the local supermarket. Walk in to buy something like say an apple. Stay inside the view of cameras at all times. Check the time on your watch occasional. Go through the register as normal. Walk out with all the money inside.

[Irbis]

Go through the register as normal. Walk out with all the money inside.

Honestly, if you need to do something like it, why be a dick and cause huge problems for cashier (up to and including arrest, firing, fines, etc.)? If you wanted to raid something for money, do it where no innocent can be involved, like ATM machine, or target worst, most degenerate people around.

[Purple]

Honestly, if you need to do something like it, why be a dick and cause huge problems for cashier (up to and including arrest, firing, fines, etc.)? If you wanted to raid something for money, do it where no innocent can be involved, like ATM machine, or target worst, most degenerate people around.

And just what exactly is the difference functionally? Last time I checked both ATM machines and drug dealers have to get their money from somewhere. And that somewhere are regular citizens. Seriously, stealing money is a dikish move no matter how you do it. So at least be smart and minimize your chances of getting caught.

[Irbis]

And just what exactly is the difference functionally? Last time I checked both ATM machines and drug dealers have to get their money from somewhere. And that somewhere are regular citizens. Seriously, stealing money is a dikish move no matter how you do it. So at least be smart and minimize your chances of getting caught.

There is "slight" difference between stealing from huge, anonymous, insured institution raking in colossal profits, and stealing if from a place where minimum wage worker will be somehow responsible for the loss, you know, at least from utilitarian point of view.

I won't comment on drug dealers or armed gangs, what with them not being common here so I can't really relate to situation. But, stealing from people likely to increase amount of crimes to compensate doesn't strike me as a good idea either. I'd feel responsible for that, unless I could somehow get law enforcement to take them out, too, at which point the whole idea becomes impractical.

As they say, great power, great responsibility, and IMHO you need to ask yourself first: "What is the worst that can happen as consequence?".

[Purple]

There is "slight" difference between stealing from huge, anonymous, insured institution raking in colossal profits, and stealing if from a place where minimum wage worker will be somehow responsible for the loss, you know, at least from utilitarian point of view.

Yes. The difference is that it is much easier and safer to steal from a MCDonalds than to try and rob an ATM. At the very least I am more likely to accidentally leave evidence at the scene than if I were to just walk in when the cash register is open, empty it out and walk out before letting the cashier realize all the money is suddenly gone.

Furthermore. The individual working the register should realistically not get in trouble for as long as I pick stores that have security camera coverage. They can after all account for each and every employee and thus give them proof that they did not do it.

I won't comment on drug dealers or armed gangs, what with them not being common here so I can't really relate to situation. But, stealing from people likely to increase amount of crimes to compensate doesn't strike me as a good idea either. I'd feel responsible for that, unless I could somehow get law enforcement to take them out, too, at which point the whole idea becomes impractical.

There is this too.

As they say, great power, great responsibility

I disagree. With great power only comes great freedom. Responsibility is something we choose to tack on willingly.

[Borgholio]

The reason I selected drug dealers is because they are scum and if they start shooting each other due to lost profits or accusation of stealing, then nobody really cares. And if a drug dealer reports to the cops that someone stole his money...well...is that even going to happen in the first place? And if it does, who would believe them? Robbing a cash register though, even though it is a big corporation that can easily afford the loss, questions will be asked about how the register was emptied with full security camera footage when at one moment you see a tray full of cash and in the next you see nothing. If you steal only some of the money, the cashier could be fired since they minimum-wage Loss-Prevention drones would just say they used slight-of-hand to pocket some of the cash.

As far as unintended consequences, it's better to rob those who deserve to be robbed rather than someplace where innocents can end up being harmed.

[Purple]

The reason I selected drug dealers is because they are scum and if they start shooting each other due to lost profits or accusation of stealing, then nobody really cares.

Except all the innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.

And if a drug dealer reports to the cops that someone stole his money...well...is that even going to happen in the first place? And if it does, who would believe them?

Why do you think so? Just because someone is a drug dealer does not mean he can not own property or report it being stolen. If you live in a country that respects the rule of law like I do the police is expected to investigate these cases of theft just as for any other citizen.

Robbing a cash register though, even though it is a big corporation that can easily afford the loss, questions will be asked about how the register was emptied with full security camera footage when at one moment you see a tray full of cash and in the next you see nothing.

So let them ask. It's not like they can provide an answer that incriminates me.

If you steal only some of the money, the cashier could be fired since they minimum-wage Loss-Prevention drones would just say they used slight-of-hand to pocket some of the cash.

Maybe in america. Over here in Europe we have these things called unions.

As far as unintended consequences, it's better to rob those who deserve to be robbed rather than someplace where innocents can end up being harmed.

Even if the consequences of that are an escalation of violence and potential gang war depending on where you live? Remember as a general rule the places where you can actually find drug dealers out in the open handling large quantities of cash are places where stealing said cash is likely to provoke a lot of violence.

[Irbis]

Yes. The difference is that it is much easier and safer to steal from a MCDonalds than to try and rob an ATM. At the very least I am more likely to accidentally leave evidence at the scene than if I were to just walk in when the cash register is open, empty it out and walk out before letting the cashier realize all the money is suddenly gone.

Why would it be? The only defence most ATMs have is being in public. Remove that with time stop or in a pinch wait for refilling crew to open it and the problem is gone.

Furthermore. The individual working the register should realistically not get in trouble for as long as I pick stores that have security camera coverage. They can after all account for each and every employee and thus give them proof that they did not do it.

And you think shop just won't go 'you tossed it to your accomplice really fast when you opened register'? Most of these systems have crappy quality, and even if it's good one, nothing stops the store from revenge firing or even punitive lawsuit.

I disagree. With great power only comes great freedom. Responsibility is something we choose to tack on willingly.

Golden rule.

The reason I selected drug dealers is because they are scum and if they start shooting each other due to lost profits or accusation of stealing, then nobody really cares.

No, not each other, starting armed robberies to cover up lack of money they owe boss for the drugs. Alternatively, said boss murdering the small fish who dared to not cough up money immediately. Would you be really okay with that?

[Purple]

Why would it be? The only defence most ATMs have is being in public. Remove that with time stop or in a pinch wait for refilling crew to open it and the problem is gone.

Ah, you meant wait for filling and rob it than. I thought you meant cracking the thing open and robing it that way. Something which would draw attention once I unpause.

And you think shop just won't go 'you tossed it to your accomplice really fast when you opened register'? Most of these systems have crappy quality, and even if it's good one, nothing stops the store from revenge firing or even punitive lawsuit.

Except workers rights legislation, unions and other similar stuff.

[Irbis]

Except workers rights legislation, unions and other similar stuff.

The worst, most ruthless stores exploiting their workers, places no one will miss robbed, also tend to have little to no unions (or store owned one), minimum wages, and repressive security. That's the paradox - the worse person is, the (potentially) worse things they can do in repression.

And on the other hand, stealing from nice, friendly store treating workers well would be incredibly counter-productive.

[Borgholio]

Except all the innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.

Is that a guarantee? Yes, I know full well of the countless civilians caught in drive-by shootings, but do we know for certain that the number of innocents shot would drastically increase or that there would be more drive-by murders? Say a dealer is approached by his supplier and he doesn't have the cash on him. They'd probably off him on the spot, not let him get away and murder him later.

Why do you think so? Just because someone is a drug dealer does not mean he can not own property or report it being stolen. If you live in a country that respects the rule of law like I do the police is expected to investigate these cases of theft just as for any other citizen.

Officer : "What seems to be the problem, sir?"
Dealer : "I was standing here with a wad of cash in my pocket and suddenly it vanished."
Officer : "Vanished?"
Dealer : "Yes, one minute it was there and the next it was gone."

At this point, the officer would probably think the guy was nuts. But let's assume the dealer presses the issue.

Officer : "Ok, sir. We'll file a report and ask around if anybody saw who stole your money. Can you please describe how much money you had and what size bills?"
Dealer : "Yes, I had two grand in $20s."
Officer : "And what was the source of this funds?"
Dealer : "Drugs."
Officer : "..."

Now naturally the dealer wouldn't tell the truth...he would lie his ass off, but any officer who is halfway familiar with the area would know the local dealers and where they hang out and immediately call bullshit. This is of course assuming the officer took him seriously in the first place.

So let them ask. It's not like they can provide an answer that incriminates me.

That's a selfish attitude. Do you not care about the cashier who could likely get fired and / or arrested?

Maybe in america. Over here in Europe we have these things called unions.

We have unions too. They exist to protect workers from dangerous or unfair working conditions, they are not capable of protecting against a criminal act that was committed by one of their members.

Even if the consequences of that are an escalation of violence and potential gang war depending on where you live? Remember as a general rule the places where you can actually find drug dealers out in the open handling large quantities of cash are places where stealing said cash is likely to provoke a lot of violence.

How would a gang war start by robbing drug dealers? You don't have rival gangs supplying each other with drugs. They fight each other to control selling territory but they all buy from the same central sources. At worst, the dealer's own gang might kill him just to cover their own asses. But it would not start a war.

No, not each other, starting armed robberies to cover up lack of money they owe boss for the drugs.

Armed robberies of stores and banks are taken far more seriously by police than a small-time drug dealer working a back alley. If they actually do go that route and the number of robberies increase, then they risk a large-scale anti-gang crackdown which may not have happened otherwise. The end result is an eviscerated gang and an overall much safer neighborhood. This is a good thing.

Alternatively, said boss murdering the small fish who dared to not cough up money immediately. Would you be really okay with that?

A big-time criminal murdering small-time criminals, thus reducing the overall criminal presence in the city? Fine by me. I don't really think you'd find too many in the general public would have an issue with having fewer drug dealers in the city.

[Irbis]

A big-time criminal murdering small-time criminals, thus reducing the overall criminal presence in the city? Fine by me. I don't really think you'd find too many in the general public would have an issue with having fewer drug dealers in the city.

Even if I wasn't opposed to death penalty, I'd need to struggle really hard to find a system dealing death penalty for minor crime often done by desperate or forced people okay

[Purple]

Except workers rights legislation, unions and other similar stuff.

The worst, most ruthless stores exploiting their workers, places no one will miss robbed, also tend to have little to no unions (or store owned one), minimum wages, and repressive security. That's the paradox - the worse person is, the (potentially) worse things they can do in repression.

And on the other hand, stealing from nice, friendly store treating workers well would be incredibly counter-productive.

You are operating under the american system of thought where such businesses are legal. I am not 100% familiar with legislation where I am from but I do know that unions are much stronger and you can't just abuse your workers any way you like.

Is that a guarantee? Yes, I know full well of the countless civilians caught in drive-by shootings, but do we know for certain that the number of innocents shot would drastically increase or that there would be more drive-by murders?

Do we know for a fact that they won't? And more importantly. Without knowing for a fact that they won't would you be able to sleep at night and not think about it?

Now naturally the dealer wouldn't tell the truth...he would lie his ass off, but any officer who is halfway familiar with the area would know the local dealers and where they hang out and immediately call bullshit. This is of course assuming the officer took him seriously in the first place.

I guess.

That's a selfish attitude. Do you not care about the cashier who could likely get fired and / or arrested?

To be perfectly honest better them than me. Plus, I'd much rather get an innocent man fired than any man dead.

We have unions too. They exist to protect workers from dangerous or unfair working conditions, they are not capable of protecting against a criminal act that was committed by one of their members.

They are however capable of making sure that the employer can't do anything without proving that the employee committed said criminal act to begin with.

How would a gang war start by robbing drug dealers? You don't have rival gangs supplying each other with drugs. They fight each other to control selling territory but they all buy from the same central sources. At worst, the dealer's own gang might kill him just to cover their own asses. But it would not start a war.

I rob drug dealer a from gang A. He makes kills one of his couriers and makes up a story for his boss how the rival gang B did it. Repeat every time I want to go shopping.

Armed robberies of stores and banks are taken far more seriously by police than a small-time drug dealer working a back alley. If they actually do go that route and the number of robberies increase, then they risk a large-scale anti-gang crackdown which may not have happened otherwise. The end result is an eviscerated gang and an overall much safer neighborhood. This is a good thing.

And all the lives that get ruined, people that get robbed and destroyed and stuff that happens in the meantime is ok?

A big-time criminal murdering small-time criminals, thus reducing the overall criminal presence in the city? Fine by me. I don't really think you'd find too many in the general public would have an issue with having fewer drug dealers in the city.

You seem to place very little value on human life just as long as said human belongs to a demographic you disprove off. Honestly, I can not agree with that sort of thinking. The life of the worst criminal is still a life. Especially since small time criminals are usually in it because they have no choice either due to poverty or addiction.

[Darth Tanner]

Yes, but you don't need to hide you, you just need to hide a listening device.

Within hearing range... I have to hope people don't notice a recorder jumping into existence. Also I'm going to have to break into wherever the people I want to spy on are and hope they talk about something I care about... or that I can find them at all, there would be a lot of searching with locked doors in the way.

Interestingly, the best solution would then be to use a stolen car

Why would a drug dealer/cop check a car that could be miles away from the crime scene and if there was any video evidence clearly shows it not stopping while the crime took place. Obviously if its going to be a major theft (as in emptying a bank vault) then they will probably run all the licence plates they can get but there will be nothing to imply you had anything to do with it unless you use the same car for all the thefts and they can see the back of the car suddenly fill with cash from the CCTV.

Go through the register as normal. Walk out with all the money inside.

Surely the till operator is going to immediately notice that the till has been emptied before closing it? Seems a lot to hope for... also you are going to have to be right there to be able to pause when the till opens... otherwise just go from till to till hoping at least one is open.

Furthermore. The individual working the register should realistically not get in trouble for as long as I pick stores that have security camera coverage. They can after all account for each and every employee and thus give them proof that they did not do it.

I don't think cameras watch each till at most supermarkets I've visited... not enough that each cash register is watched to the extent that they can tell when and how much cash is taken out.

The crew refilling the cash machine while you empty it however are likely to be fired and go to prison as the only realistic explanation is that they emptied it of cash themselves. I have no idea how you would smash open a cash machine yourself but I presume the money is quite well secured... although if you can take it out while paused you should avoid any traps that mark or burn the money.

Maybe in america. Over here in Europe we have these things called unions.

I'm pretty sure even European working practices the employee is in deep shit if the till empties itself on their watch.

A big-time criminal murdering small-time criminals, thus reducing the overall criminal presence in the city? Fine by me.

I imagine the first reaction of a drug dealer noticing his wad of cash has vanished from his pocket is to strike out violently at the first potential suspect... either his customer or the innocent bystander walking past at the time.

[Zixinus]

Purple does have a point that drug dealers might use violent action to try and quickly recuperate their losses. It would be prudent to try and minimize that if possible. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

1. Steal or sabotage their guns. Without money they'll have a harder time replacing them. Stealing, aside profit, can be useful, see second point.

2. Take the drugs from whoever the runner is and plant it on the dealer or his car. You can use guns as well, if you can manage. Call the cops describing the drug dealer specifically. Drug dealer thinks cops have nothing on him until he can make the honest lie that he doesn't know how that coke got into his pocket.

3. Warn the dealer or just leave a sign. A stick note on their face which reads: "I just took your coke, money and gun. Get out of town and consider honest work." You can also do something like tie their shoelaces together or tie their hands to a nearby pipe or something.

4. A variant of the previous one: You'll have to do this carefully, maybe using a shotgun with beanbag rounds, but shot the guys to leave injuries. That way their boss will see that they just got robbed rather than their underlings stealing from them. Meta-criminals stealing from criminals is a risk that most criminals already have to live with.

5. This is risky but potentially the most profitable. Steal the dealer's phone and use stuff on it to learn what the next step is on the criminal ladder. You can even switch phones to make a bugged phone for you. Carefully work your way up the ladder. The greatest issue is that pause-time does not help you here. Criminals like these are always careful not to be watched or seen doing business with suppliers. But it would be a worthwhile payoff because in these cases much greater amounts of money are present for you to steal.
A low-level grunt might get into trouble for having his money disappear. But the boss finding that the massive take just disappeared right after he counted it in a locked room? Who's he going to punish, himself? Is he going to even tell anyone that he can't secure the organization's money.


Of course some of these also potentially exposes the fact that there are people that can pause time. But somebody will figure it out eventually anyway, if you do it often enough. This is another reason to go around on a stolen/unregistered bike in full gear too. You only have to get caught twitching with magically-filled bags once for someone to put two and two together.

Another problem is that you'll have to be careful about this. How are you going to use the money exactly? You can't just put in a sudden increase of thousands of dollars into your bank account, that will be suspicious to the bank and tax agency. Do you know how to launder it? You'll be limited to paying everything by cash. I would partially get around this money by converting the stolen money into inflation-resistant foreign currency, like Swedish franks or pounds or whatever.

Within hearing range... I have to hope people don't notice a recorder jumping into existence. Also I'm going to have to break into wherever the people I want to spy on are and hope they talk about something I care about... or that I can find them at all, there would be a lot of searching with locked doors in the way.

A Dictaphone is quite a small thing. You can easily slip it into a person's unused jacket pocket or briefcase. Then you just have to wait until they come back out.

That said, you are right that you may have to use more advanced spy gear.

[Purple]

Another problem is that you'll have to be careful about this. How are you going to use the money exactly? You can't just put in a sudden increase of thousands of dollars into your bank account, that will be suspicious to the bank and tax agency. Do you know how to launder it? You'll be limited to paying everything by cash. I would partially get around this money by converting the stolen money into inflation-resistant foreign currency, like Swedish franks or pounds or whatever.

Personally I do not see any point in trying to steal huge amounts of money to begin with. If you can pause time at will than you can also steal just enough to cover your everyday trip to the grocery store every single day. And once you abstract away that day to day expenditure the money you do earn from a regular job is basically just there for you to play with.