So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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mr friendly guy
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So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by mr friendly guy »

http://time.com/2987940/thor-female/

Note its not just TIME but lots of mainstream sources are carrying it as well
Here’s Why a Female Thor Makes Total Sense

Thor's power derives from his (or her!) hammer

The mighty Thor, that symbol of masculinity, aggression, violence and war, is going to be a woman. And it makes total sense.

Marvel announced the upcoming female incarnation of the character on The View Tuesday morning. The reaction was swift and, in many cases, far too negative. “I love women who kick add but Thor’s a dude,” [sic] wrote one Twitter user. “Marvel comics being stupid,” announced another. And then there’s this, from a Marvel editor:

Here’s the deal: Marvel Comics has long borrowed Norse mythology for many of its beloved characters and plots. That’s free intellectual property, after all. But the comics are only inspired by Norse mythology, and they’ve almost never followed the stories line-for-line (and even if they did, mythology suffers from a massive case of The Telephone Game, with lots of different tellings evolving over the years).

Thor, in the Marvel Universe, isn’t just a character: He’s also an intangible idea. And Thor’s power, which most notably includes the ability to summon up lightning to layeth the smacketh-downeth upon his foes, isn’t really embedded inside him, per se. It’s in his hammer, Mjolnir — to mix comic book universe metaphors, he’s more like Green Lantern, who derives his power from a ring that’s charged by a lantern that’s charged by a planet.

That wasn’t always the case. Thor’s power used to be embedded in Thor directly. But when Thor’s father, Odin (also the king of Thor’s realm, Asgard), wanted to punish Thor for violating his direct commands, Odin stripped Thor of his powers and enshrined them instead in Mjolnir. Here’s the spell Odin put on the hammer to do so:

Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.
Translation: To get Thor’s power, you have to be deemed worthy of it by successfully picking up the hammer. In most Marvel Thor origin stories, eventually Thor redeems himself, reclaims his hammer (without first knowing why he couldn’t pick it up any longer) and then becomes the “real” Thor again, ready to return to his lightning-summoning, hammer-slinging self.

But Thor isn’t the only person who’s lifted the hammer: Captain America, the Hulk (eventually!) and Superman (crossover!) were deemed worthy and got Thor’s power. Who does the deeming is something of a mystery, but I’ve long thought that Mjolnir itself is sentient and the hammer itself decides who’s worthy of it.

And there’s the rub: What will probably happen in the Marvel comic book that introduces the new female Thor is that the male Thor we’ve all known for decades will either bite the bullet or do something to piss off the hammer. Either option would mean Thor couldn’t be Thor any longer, and some female character will come along — whether Asgardian or otherwise — try to pick up the hammer, succeed, and effectively become a female Thor. That Odin’s spell specifically says “he” doesn’t really matter: Storm and Wonder Woman (another crossover!) have both been deemed worthy, signaling Mjolnir has perhaps developed a less strict constructionist ideology about itself than Odin ever had.

Of course, a female Thor won’t really address another problem facing the comic book world: The lack of original, well-advertised female superheroes, particularly at the movies. None of the upcoming DC or Marvel films, for example, feature a woman — no Wonder Woman from DC, no Black Widow flick from Marvel. The best we’ve gotten so far are Elektra and Catwoman, both total flops. Both companies will need more than a female version of a top character to fix that issue.
Lets get this out the way first.

1. Thor has had other people replace him, namely during Tom Defalco's run where Eric Masterson was his human host, and then eventually Thor in his own right
2. There was already a Thorgirl - http://www.comicvine.com/thor-girl/4005-12335/ (so that's what happened to her)

So its hardly revolutionary. Now back to the topic.

Ok so its not quite a sex change like how some people make it out to be (not sure if its because they don't understand comics or they are trying to be humourous). It seems the Thor that we know and love is taking a breather. What would be good is if he gets a "promotion" sort of like at the end of Avengers Disassembled he becomes All Father and since the World needs heroes, a female Thor arrives. I however suspect that it will be either

a. Thor gets shafted until he becomes worthy enough to wield Mjolnir again
b) Thor gets lost in some other dimension (perhaps tieing in to the fact Angela is now revealed to be his sister)
c) Thor gets killed off / disappears (AGAIN).

Might be interesting although it would be good if they didn't shit on an existing character to create this female version of Thor. Fingers crossed. But then this is Marvel so...
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Tsyroc »

It's funny that the articles covering this they remember that Captain America and Superman were able to lift Mjolnir, but they complete forget that Wonder Woman did so as well. Plus, she didn't need any extreme circumstances to do so. She just nonchalantly handed Mjolnir to Thor. :)

I've seen pictures of the character. She looks okay, better than what they did with the poorly named "Thor-girl".

I'm not entirely sure what the reasoning behind this is. The recent "God Butcher" and "God Bomb" storylines were excellent so I'm not sure what is driving this change. Not that they've been
entirely clear what this change is. I'll just have to wait and see. I've read something that suggested she might be from a future time-line, which I think would be okay. In the Spider-girl timeline Thor's daughter, Thena wields Mjolnir. This could be something similar with a bit more deviation from Thor's look. I'm also assuming that this time the female "Thor" will be the recently revealed half-sister of Thor.

Personally I think it would have been cool if the character is one of Thor's granddaughters from the "God Bomb" storyline. Those three characters were fun the little bit we saw them. An older version of one of those girls being given Mjolnir by Thor would work well.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Um, the article explicitly says Wonder Woman picked it up. As did Storm. It mentions them both as having lifted Mjolnir.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by mr friendly guy »

To be fair this is most probably the only article which mentions Wonder Woman picking it up. I also don't recall Storm picking it up in the crossover nor in Marvel comics (Loki created another hammer with similar powers for her to hold).
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Grumman »

I hate this. A lot.

First, the thing I have always hated about Marvel's Thor is this "Donald Blake is Thor" concept. I much prefer the movie's "Thor is Thor". I would have more respect for the idea if they didn't dredge that shit back up, and just had a woman who wields Mjolnir without claiming that makes her Thor. It doesn't, no more than Wonder Woman was Thor or the Red Hulk was Thor.

Second, the Sword of Damocles is already hanging over this character. Marvel couldn't even resist pushing Nick Fury out of the spotlight - a popular character who's been around for fifty years - to replace him with a Samuel L. Jackson lookalike. Does anyone honestly believe that TINO will fare any better when Avengers 2 or Thor 3 comes out?
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Vendetta »

mr friendly guy wrote:To be fair this is most probably the only article which mentions Wonder Woman picking it up. I also don't recall Storm picking it up in the crossover nor in Marvel comics (Loki created another hammer with similar powers for her to hold).
There's an alt universe one shot where Storm is the Thor of that 'verse.

There's also Earth X, where Thor is turned into a woman (by Loki, ofc.)
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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Napoleon the Clown wrote:Um, the article explicitly says Wonder Woman picked it up. As did Storm. It mentions them both as having lifted Mjolnir.
Sorry, I only read the quoted bit. :oops:

In regard to Storm, I don't remember her ever picking up Mjolnir. Loki made a hammer specifically for her that essentially did the same things as Mjolnir. I probably just missed that part though.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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Grumman wrote:I hate this. A lot.

First, the thing I have always hated about Marvel's Thor is this "Donald Blake is Thor" concept. I much prefer the movie's "Thor is Thor". I would have more respect for the idea if they didn't dredge that shit back up, and just had a woman who wields Mjolnir without claiming that makes her Thor. It doesn't, no more than Wonder Woman was Thor or the Red Hulk was Thor.

Second, the Sword of Damocles is already hanging over this character. Marvel couldn't even resist pushing Nick Fury out of the spotlight - a popular character who's been around for fifty years - to replace him with a Samuel L. Jackson lookalike. Does anyone honestly believe that TINO will fare any better when Avengers 2 or Thor 3 comes out?
Y'know, with Thor's original appearance it sort of seemed like they were trying to do a Marvel version of Shazam! (Captain Marvel) except having the power be from one god and located in the hammer. I don't know if they intended people to think this and then switched it to him really being Thor according to plan, or if was something they did as they went along or because of grumbling from outside the company.

I liked it when they got rid of the Donald Blake persona. I was fine with Sigurd Jarlsen (sp?) if he had to have a "human" civilian identity. Really, Thor is a much more interesting character when he's being Thor and not when he's being someone else or pretending not to be Thor. I really didn't care for Thor being bound to Eric Masterson. I was fine with Eric being Thor but the combo version was a not very successful attempt to do the Captain Mar-Vel/Rick Jones thing again. One of the other things I liked about Thor just being Thor is losing that stupid 60 second rule where he would revert to Donald Blake if he lost contact with the hammer for more than 60 seconds.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Ahriman238 »

Oh hey, it's Earth X Thor.

I notice that list is missing Beta Ray Bill, Bill Matherson, and Deadpool.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by avatarxprime »

I've been thinking about this, and was wondering if they're gonna link 616 and Ultimate again with this. Currently Ultimate Thor is stuck in the Negative Zone, it would be interesting if in an attempt to escape his hammer ends up in 616 and then well FemThor happens.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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The thing that worries me most about this is something mentioned in the Escapist article on the subject:
One possible candidate is Angela, the former Spawn character acquired by Marvel whose most recent appearance in Aaron's Original Sin tie-in miniseries, Thor: The Tenth Realm, in which it was discovered that she is, in fact, the daughter of Odin and sister to both Thor and Loki.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by mr friendly guy »

From the escapist article
And what of the original God of Thunder? If the upcoming "Time Runs Out" story, running through the Avengers and New Avengers books is any indication, Thor (assuming he's still called "Thor) has a tough road ahead. Recent art for the even shows Thor still fighting with his Avengers cohorts, though sporting an artificial arm and a large battleaxe. One can only speculate, but it seems likely that eventually, the old version of Thor will find a way to reclaim his title.
Right so they might be shafting the character of Thor. Hey, they had Nick Fury shit on the Geneva Convention so what the hell. :D
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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SAMAS wrote:The thing that worries me most about this is something mentioned in the Escapist article on the subject:
One possible candidate is Angela, the former Spawn character acquired by Marvel whose most recent appearance in Aaron's Original Sin tie-in miniseries, Thor: The Tenth Realm, in which it was discovered that she is, in fact, the daughter of Odin and sister to both Thor and Loki.
I saw a picture that has Angela standing next to the new Thor so I think that kills that idea. I think it was a picture of the new version of the Avengers because it had Sam Wilson as Captain America, and Iron Man was in his "Apple" Suit (ie all white).
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Darmalus »

So is Thor a title now, not a personal name? If it's a title, that's fine. It's it's a name, shouldn't we be calling her Angela, not the new Thor? And what's Thor's real name then?
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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Darmalus wrote:So is Thor a title now, not a personal name? If it's a title, that's fine. It's it's a name, shouldn't we be calling her Angela, not the new Thor? And what's Thor's real name then?
Thor seems to be both his name and title. Its weird, but shouldn't the title be God of Thunder, not Thor? Since it sounds like a rank.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

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My roommates just read this story. Theyve been whining about it for about 20 minutes now
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Sidewinder »

Trying to steal the identity of an established and well-publicized character? A character who is STILL ALIVE, according to the article, meaning Marvel can't just say, "Thor died and was reincarnated as a woman"? This poor girl will end up in a refrigerator, like Jean-Paul Valley as Batman.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Batman »

Actually, Jean Paul had quite a few productive years as Azrael after his (admittedly unsuccessful) stint as Me.
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Re: So Thor's a woman, what else is new?

Post by Bedlam »

Batman wrote:Actually, Jean Paul had quite a few productive years as Azrael after his (admittedly unsuccessful) stint as Me.
Well I wouldn't call that many of them productive, maybe the first 3 years or so, but the run did go on for quite a while.
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