Anyone catch the pilot for The Flash? (SPOILERS)

[Havok]

My guess is they'll flog the whole "he's not a professional, he's an amateur" angle for as long as they can. Well-meaning young superhero never manages to actually do the job right until the last minute because he's never done this before. Something along those lines.

Maybe... but after his chat with Arrow he promptly zips off the side of a building and goes running through traffic (presumably back the 600 miles to home). Zipping between moving cars implies he's pretty confident in his abilities and not hitting them implies some degree of control. Surely it can grow- he's not vibrating through walls or anything yet but we can say right off the bat that any villain with a gun is moot.

Maybe they can make it work... I'm just skeptical. But the general formula is for the threat of the week to require some sort of action- usually difficult or time sensitive- to be performed. Neither of those criteria- unless another speedster in involved or his powers are stripped- should occur. When your opponent is more or less stationary there's only so much challenge in subduing them and stripping his powers will get old very fast. Plus we'll always wonder why Arrow never calls Barry when stuff gets difficult in future seasons.

We had a couple of threads about super heroes vs Avengers/X Men/etc. Flash could wipe the floor with the Brotherhood and the movie X Men or Avengers. Those he can't actually take out, like Hulk or Colossus, he could avoid with trivial ease (or bury them in so many chains they can't move). Speedsters are absurdly powerful. He could possibly find the right tools and come back to dismantle the Iron Man armour right off of Stark.

If they are smart they will curtail his powers by creating consequences. The Justice League cartoon did that and did it well. The best example is when Luthor ends up in Flash's body and vibrates through something and GL comments he didn't know Flash could do that and MMH responds he doesn't because it causes some sort of explosion. They basically let him alter the laws of physics to use his power, but limit what he can do with them because he is a good guy and the true potential of them would hurt innocents.

[FaxModem1]

Wentworth Miller has been cast as Captain Cold:

Newsarama

Wentworth Miller To Guest on THE FLASH as a Key ROGUE
by Newsarama Staff
Date: 18 July 2014 Time: 02:23 PM ET
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Wentworth Miller on Prison Break
Wentworth Miller on 'Prison Break'
CREDIT: FOX
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Captain Cold
[Pin It] CREDIT: DC Comics
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The CW’s The Flash just got a little bit cooler. Bad puns aside, executive producer Greg Berlanti announced the casting of Leonard Snart aka Captain Cold to the series at the summer TCAs. Wentworth Miller from Prison Break will play the iconic villain, one of The Flash’s signature “Rogues,” a group of villains that bands together and has their own unique moral code.

Right now Miller is only booked for one episode, the series’ fourth, but even money says he’ll be back for more after that. The pilot features fellow Rogue, Weather Wizard, so we could see an assemblage of that team sooner rather than later in the series.

Of course, we could also see a new take on Captain Cold - in the DC Comics the show is based on, Captain Cold has taken a heroic turn recently, even serving as a probationary member of the Justice League (alongside fellow usually-a-villain Lex Luthor).

So, will he be a Rogue or competing vigilante in this show?

[FaxModem1]

Okay, so the pilot is officially out and I just watched it. It was a lot of fun. I'm rather looking forward to this series.

[GuppyShark]

I loved it, I'm sold.

I never watched Arrow, was Barry a guest on that show?

[Broomstick]

Briefly, for several episodes. I missed those, but it's my understanding that Barry is the one who gave Ollie his mask.

[Lord Revan]

Briefly, for several episodes. I missed those, but it's my understanding that Barry is the one who gave Ollie his mask.

he was, it was a gift to Mr Queen when Barry returned back to his home city after the 2 parter.

[Simon_Jester]

Maybe they can make it work... I'm just skeptical. But the general formula is for the threat of the week to require some sort of action- usually difficult or time sensitive- to be performed. Neither of those criteria- unless another speedster in involved or his powers are stripped- should occur. When your opponent is more or less stationary there's only so much challenge in subduing them and stripping his powers will get old very fast.

I think the combination of good traps and making most of the episode focus on detective-type issues might help.

[Batman]

They made it work for Clark in 'Smallville' by and large, despite him being just as ridiculously fast (possibly faster) and having all his other powers on top of that. I'm not saying they're guaranteed to succeed, but it's definitely doable.

[GuppyShark]

Wow. This show is really good. Not only do they know exactly how to tug at the heart strings, but that final sequence of the second episode - I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

[Broomstick]

And they gave him a vulnerability - low blood sugar followed by fainting. Which makes sense in-universe and requires that Barry pace himself.

[FaxModem1]

Which means that Barry will either have to really stretch his checkbook when it comes to food, or become the terror that haunts every Central City buffet.

[Broomstick]

Joe brought him three pizzas at the end of the most recent episode, I have a feeling the family and friends will help with his food bill.

[Batman]

Heck the STAR Labs team came up with this super protein bar, they'll probably try to help keeping him fed.
Also, Barry moving people at superspeed with no ill effects. Typical Hollywood physics ignorance, Barry actually not being all that fast this time around (the guy can still outrun bullets by a comfortable margin so my bet is 'no' on that one) or leadup to the Speed Force?
And why the hell did I think Simon Stagg is a Marvel character?

[Tsyroc]

Heck the STAR Labs team came up with this super protein bar, they'll probably try to help keeping him fed.
Also, Barry moving people at superspeed with no ill effects. Typical Hollywood physics ignorance, Barry actually not being all that fast this time around (the guy can still outrun bullets by a comfortable margin so my bet is 'no' on that one) or leadup to the Speed Force?
And why the hell did I think Simon Stagg is a Marvel character?

Powers wise they seem to be leaning closer to how Wally West was when he first took over as Flash. Over time his powers grew and he was the one who discovered the speed force, and became faster than any of the other Flashes, including Barry Allen. I think they retconned the speed force to tie to Barry somehow. The speed force is one of the main ways they get around a lot of the physics issues. I think an earlier explanation in the comics had to do with the Flash generating some sort of field around him that protects him and those he carries from some of the effects of his speed. Of course, it's really questionable how that works when it appears to not work when the writers want to do something cool, like have his clothes get scorched when he's running etc...

Isn't Simon Stagg usually associated with Metamorpho of DC Comics? I'm not sure who you were thinking of over in Marvel. To be fair, I mostly only know the character because of the Timverse Metamorpho episode (I think it was JLU).


So, speculation on Dr. Wells?
Spoiler

The way he is acting makes me think Zoom but I'm wondering if they are going to combine bits of Zoom (Hunter Zoloman) and Reverse Flash (Eobard Thawne).

The future knowledge could be Reverse Flash, but Zoom's powers were time traveling giving the appearance of speed so it could be either.

Having Reverse Flash be some sort of nutbar fan that wants to make Flash a great hero by doing Zoomish stuff like killing Barry's mother could work better than a time traveling fan who essentially causes his own death at the Flash's hands because he became a villain to oppose the Flash because he saw Flash kill him.

I kind of like the idea of taking the best bits of both. Zoom got a little too nutbar for me at times, and Reverse Flash ended up being kind of sad, in a loser sort of way.

[Ahriman238]

Saw the first one, will check out the second.

Yeah, it was apparently a terrible risk and a strain for Barry to sustain 700 mph earlier, so I think you can still have a racing clock situation for a while yet. Or they can just give him problems that can't be consistently solved with his speed. For that matter, Flash's Rogues have plenty of characters capable of restricting his mobility (Trickster, Cold) matching his speed (Zoom, Inertia, Cobalt Blue) unleashing mass destruction (Weather Wizard, Nimrod, Major Disaster) or messing with Barry via psionics (Grodd) sonic weaponry (Piper) or illusions (Frost). Without even touching on the broken OP-ness of Mirror Master or Abrakadabra. Or Vandal Savage, whose power admittedly comes in the form of being older than civilization with vast resources. Or how many Flash villains are from the distant future. Plenty of room for dramatic tension.

My thoughts on the episode: it was a great origin story, didn't feel remotely padded or compressed, introduced the characters in ways that made them relatable. I do have a nitpick and a concern. First, I felt like some of the character conflict was forced, like Barry's fight with West, or Dr. Wells. The "you're not a hero" line just feels like something no one would actually say in those circumstances. Likewise, the scene with Green Arrow felt more like two people sharing a rooftop while they spoke trailer-fodder lines than two people discussing a major life decision. My concern is that giving Barry a large scientific support cast could detract from one thing that always made Barry stand out among generic Silver Age heroes: that he's himself a scientist who actually knows quite a bit about physics and chemistry.

I did like the little nods, like the cage with the bent bars and the nameplate 'Grodd.'
Spoiler

"Eddy" Thawne? I guess Zoom isn't going to be from the distant future then. Unless he's been living in the present incognito for a while.

My first thought when I saw Dr. Wells in his secret room was actually that he was Flash/GL villain Dr. T. O. Morrow. For the uninitiated, Dr. Tomorrow invented a computer that could predict the future decades and centuries in advance, and the Mk. II could let him watch the future and even retrieve small objects with a tiny time portal/tractor beam combo. He used future technology for various criminal and megalomanical activity, but largely faded out of continuity after creating the Red Tornado. Or rather, appearing as the Tornado's creator before all else.

While not named Thomas Oscar Morrow, Dr. Wells still has a considerable name connection to time, and a computer that seems to work like his. The major question, if I'm right, is did he invent the thing after the accident, or did he know all along what would happen?

[FaxModem1]

Spoiler

The problem with it being T.O. Morrow is that Dr. Morrow was killed on board the Amazo in season 2 of Arrow during the flashback plot.

[FaxModem1]

Spoiler

Correction, sorry, it was Dr. Ivo, not Dr. Morrow. Nevermind.

[GuppyShark]

that final sequence of the second episode - I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

Funny story.

I don't know what happened, but when I watched the second episode, the scene were Stagg is confronted came through with no dialogue, but there was still music. Bizarre.

That scene was actually way better without the dialogue. It preserved the mystery of what on earth these two people could be talking about.

[Ahriman238]

No love for the last two episodes?

"Things you can't outrun" was decent, though it feels like the episode was named for the subplot. I really wasn't expecting the Mist, or any other Golden Age villains, on this show. Good one, and nice to see Barry once again win with his brains rather than throwing a billion punches in a second. Though really, how practical can it be to sprint across town while unable to breathe?

Also, between the two we're fleshing out the scientific support staff nicely.

But "Going Rogue" was epic, and singlehandedly laid all my doubts about the show to rest. Brilliant casting for Captain Cold, nice tying of his origin story to Barry's, as well as the end bit hinting at Heatwave and the rest of the Rogues. So was Barry's playing three different games at once. I even like that they laid the "secret dating" subplot to rest very quickly, and the way the personal relationships are going. And the train rescue sequence was beautiful and tons of fun to watch.

[FaxModem1]

I rather enjoyed Wentworth Miller's way of reacting to being called 'Captain Cold'. It was a quick, "That's ridiculous", then a slow, "I like it though."

[Ahriman238]

I rather enjoyed Wentworth Miller's way of reacting to being called 'Captain Cold'. It was a quick, "That's ridiculous", then a slow, "I like it though."

I did too. My sole nitpick is that they didn't immediately go after him again, which is understandable, and a concern that they will never bring up that they totally have a way of tracking Cold's ice gun again, even when it would make all their lives much easier.

[Batman]

Um-they explicitly mention that Cold found a way to disable the tracer.
'We're trying to track Snart, but he must have disconnected the signal somehow.' Cisco, when they're back at STAR Labs.

[Kojiro]

While I am enjoying the show the stupid use of speed powers is already annoying me, especially after the last episode. He literally zoomed in, knocked the bad guys about and zoomed off leaving them armed. Subsequently a guard got shot. That's unbelievably stupid.

Why the hell does he not carry a couple sets of handcuffs/zip ties? Could these not be stunningly useful to someone zooming about stopping crime?

[mr friendly guy]

I am going to call it. I think Iris knows that Barry is the Flash as of the latest episode. I suspect she overheard the conversation between Barry and her dad. Her last line to Barry about giving him one last chance was her way to ask Barry to fess up.

[Broomstick]

One thing I like is how they treat him blurring his face and altering his voice. The comics mentioned that fairly frequently, but portraying that in a silent, static medium was always a bit problematic. Live-action it comes across much better that he's doing that to conceal his identity.