How to Train Your Dragon 2 (spoilers!)

[Ahriman238]

So the movie gets a US release this Friday, and I'm going over the weekend. Pity the budget only allows a movie or two a month, I'm missing out on all the comic book movies for this. Anyways, figured there ought to be a thread.

Various spoilers have put out everywhere, most shamefully the second trailer gave away Spoiler

That the mysterious masked shaman figure is Hiccup's mom, who has been running a secret dragon sanctuary for years.

So after this post, spoilers are fair game, alright?

[Iroscato]

I'm interested to see how this turns out. The first film was truly delightful, easily matching anything Pixar's put out in the last decade. I wonder if they can prove it was no fluke...

[Darth Nostril]

Check out the TV series that fills in the blanks between the movies.

[Iroscato]

Is it by the same production team as the movies? I might give it a look if so.

[Starglider]

Is it by the same production team as the movies? I might give it a look if so.

No, but it is quite well made.

[Sea Skimmer]

Apparently the show is getting two more seasons to fill time until the third movie too, but they will be set before the second movie.

Anyone seen actual movie? My desire to see it went down a few notches when the trailer before Godzilla finished spoiling what appeared to be the entire movie, and not just the big reveal spoiled long ago. I saw several reviews complain though that the action and what not is broken up into a bunch of short takes the way you have low budget action movies filmed, which sounds really annoying. Hopefully not.

[Iroscato]

Well I just watched Jeremyjahn's spoiler-free review and he absolutely adored it. I trust that guy's judgement more than most internet critics. Here, if anyone's interested:

[Majin Gojira]

I saw it last night. Not as good as the first, but definitely well done.

Though one thing that did stick out with me was this:
Spoiler

Toothless gets a double-power upgrade by the end. One giving him extra flight spines along the back in a doubel layer, and another in a heat generation from the body thng which made parts of the body and the new spines to glow with a blue that made think of only one thing: Godzilla.

[Lord Insanity]

Just saw the early show. This is one of the few movies that was just as good as the original. Seriously if you liked the first one it is totally worth seeing (even if you can't see it in the theater see it when in comes out on video.)

While I did not see the 3d version as my wife is one of the unlucky few that can't watch 3d without getting a headache, I think this one would have been awesome in 3d.

P.S. for those that haven't watch the TV series Riders of the Berk (season 1) or Defenders of the Berk (season 2), so far that show is almost as good as the movies.

[Ahriman238]

Just got back. Happy to say the action sequences were NOT chopped up, the soundtrack was as epic as the first one, and the story nearly as good. I saw it in 3D and it's the first time I can remember not regretting that move, one or two bits became hard to follow (almost all of a rolling crash) and the sheer depth and texture of things was amazing.
Spoiler

Aside from the bits the trailers gave away, the return of Hiccup's mom, Valka, and a dragon-controlling warlord out to conquer Berk, this remains a story of Hiccup. His father wants to name him chief and he's not sure he can hack it, triggering an entirely reasonable identity crisis.. He sincerely believes he get the villain to stand down by sharing some of the sweet 'respect your dragons' gospel, which has already worked out well for him with one group of incredibly stubborn Vikings. When he meets his mom, he thinks he's found his place but she's no more open to diplomacy than Stoick.

And they're right. Drago the Bloody-Fisted cannot be reasoned with. Trying just gets Toothless mind-controlled into killing Stoick while trying to ice Hiccup. It's only after Hiccup accepts that he can't fix the world single-handed and has to look after his own first that he's able to save Toothless and Berk, and step up to become the new chief.

There are lots of parts that are predictable, still being a movie pitched for families. But there are a few surprises. We all knew Hiccup was going to save Toothless with the power of friendship, and Drago obliges by giving him plenty of time to try. But the moment it looks like Hiccup is getting through, Drago acts. Likewise when Stoick dies I thought there was going to be a Disney fake-out, but no, he freaking dies. And Hiccup drives Toothless away in grief, it's all a very authentic and emotional sequence. In the predictable column, everyone gets to congregate around the body unmolested and they hold a proper Viking funeral despite there being a vast armada and dragon swarm making best speed to Berk right now. There was also a relatively early moment where Hiccup is clearly considering lying to his mom about exactly how Toothless lost a tail-fin, setting up the reveal of the lie later, but he teeters on the brink for a long moment and then comes clean.

The film deliberately contrasts Drago's, let's call it the 'Ceaser Milan' approach to dragon-training and what they've been doing on Berk. Somehow, he cowed an 'Alpha Dragon' and does something similar to others. All dragons must obey the Alpha, who obeys Drago. Until Toothless goes Godzilla and challenges the Alpha, and all the controlled swarm immediately defect and start salvoing fire until the Bewilderbeast backs down. Despite it being a team effort, all the dragons immediately begin treating Toothless as the new alpha dragon.

Apparently, despite five years of searching, Hiccup and Toothless haven't found another Night Fury. Valka even speculates that he might be the last.

Speaking of, Valka's knowledge is inconsistent. She nothing of Toothless' retracting teeth, but knows the secret spot to rub to upgrade him with flight-control spines?

The sheep antics were hilarious. So was the love quadrangle. And anytime Gobber and his dragon were on-screen.

Having seen a few episodes of the show, I was disappointed that Stoick's dragon was Skullcrusher and not Thornado.

All in all, backing what others have said. Not as good as the first, but a lot of fun and it certainly doesn't shame the series or anything like that. Well worth the price of admission.

[Bedlam]

Spoiler

I really liked it, the animation was incredible.

The only thing that turned me off it would be the lack of bloodiness (to be expected in a children's film) not to sound to bloodthirsty but the lack of anything when the first Alpha was gored to death and Storic's death threw out the immersion for me.

[Ahriman238]

Spoiler

I like a lot of the little touches, the way you see Totthless and Stormfly playing in the background while Hiccup and Astrid talk, theh umor. It took me a bit to notice, even with the talk of retiring, but Stoick has a few grey streaks in his beard. Also, at one point Astrid and Hiccup kiss and Gobber covers a child's eyes, with his false hand. He actually carries around a wooden hand that's forever flat. He keeps swapping out the hand throughout the story.

In another movie, the family stuff with Hiccup, Valka and Stoick, especially the scene where they dance would feel like padding or something put there just totwist the knife when Stoick dies. But it felt really authentic and heartfelt, in it's entirety.

[dragon]

well worth the price of admission

[Sea Skimmer]

So I saw in it 3D, and it was good, and the backgrounds were amazing in some shots. The movie is kind of held back by the original character and location designs being only so malleable to vastly improved animation but it still looked good. I think the 3D was worth the price, and rarely do I think this. It didn't have the problem so many movies have of only part of the frame being in focus after hack conversion jobs. Made from day one for 3D.

Plot had some unexpected stuff, and lots of predictable and trailer spoiled stuff which was still good to see. Once again Dreamworks trailers are kinda of fail, apparently they still don't make them themselves either, and I think that plus the fact that this movie is kind of adult, but not really, is going to hurt it on the monies side. But we'll be getting our third movie no matter what! It worked for me, all I care about.

Though I have to say, the original teaser music for that opening sequence with hiccup and toothless was way better then the actual movie music. That song was kind of a cringe moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... gk2s8#t=12

Spoiler

Speaking of, Valka's knowledge is inconsistent. She nothing of Toothless' retracting teeth, but knows the secret spot to rub to upgrade him with flight-control spines?

Spoiler

I noticed that too, but strictly speaking its possible she saw that on another dragon and just tried it for the heck of it. She also knew certain marks indicated age, but this might also be a common dragon trait too. Another possibility is that she had examined a dead night fury before which had the teeth out.

[Iroscato]

Just got back from seeing it. I though it was about as good as the first one, albeit pretty different. Stoic's death and funeral were very moving, pretty heavy stuff for the intended demographic. One thing that stuck out for me was the relationship between Astrid and Hiccup, especially when they're talking together near the start. Lots of small details I noticed that make them feel like a very authentic couple.
Hugely enjoyable, and the 3D worked. I also got to see it for free, as a mate of mine works at the local cinema

[Ahriman238]

Hey, if anyone is going to see or rewatch this soon, do a guy a favor?

Could you count the number of shots Toothless got off in the big final battle? We established early in the first movie that every dragon has a fire-breath limit (Grinkles like Meatlug, for instance, get six) before needing to rest or somehow refuel. Toothless himself fires, I think 8 or 9 times at the climax of the last film, but I'm pretty sure he fired a lot more this time.

[Sea Skimmer]

Since its too hot to do anything useful outside today and the original movie is within an arms reach... it was ten shots their. But they also only stop because the tail is on fire, and approach the speed of sound in a dive for that matter indicating very high mass, so we really don't know what the limit is.I think your right that it was more, but it couldn't have been much more, and a time delay that can be assumed to be a good number of hours is involved as a reset in-between. The dragon island and Berk have to be pretty far apart to have not been discovered in five years of flying around.

Doesn't really seem like a significant iffy thing to me compared to Toothless being able to survive a heavy explosion massively tamped against his body. But you know Toothless is god now and I think they wrote that part of the movie and his character design by browsing deviantart, so he can do anything he wants.

[Iroscato]

To be fair, Night Furies (at least from the first film) appeared to already be considered one of, if not the most powerful breed of dragon there is, so with Toothless being the last of his kind, makes sense in a way that he'd be considered top, er...dragon.

[LadyTevar]

I have to wonder how much of his upgrade to Zilla-Spine was due to his new spine trick, and how much was simple honest "Protect My Friend"

In the Riders of Berk/Defenders of Berk Tv Series, they prove over and over that Dragons want to Protect those they consider their own. In this movie, Valka's Alpha is dong the same, building a safe haven for his followers, feeding them, and protecting them. We never see it control them.

Bloodfist's alpha did everything his master told him (and I'd love to know how Bloodfist managed to catch one). Bloodfist used his as a means to an end, to get his army, nothing more. We also see at the end that Alpha's control was easily broken when he had to put his full attention to Toothless -- that's why all the Berk dragons (and others) went over to Toothless' side and started fighting with him.

Another reason the Berk dragons may have gone over to Toothless; we know of one other super-large Dragon, the one that was commanding the attacks on Berk. He not only was taking all the food, he was killing those too slow to get out of his way. That one was possibly another Alpha gone mad/wrong. The Berk dragons remembered Toothless saved them then, and trusted him to win again against another mad Alpha.

[Sea Skimmer]

Probably part of it was just meant to show that Toothless grew up too, and not just Hiccup, independent of the spine trick or anything else being discovered. Just another thing that helps make him more a friend then a flying pet.

The Queen in the original movie was probably controlling dragons to feed herself because she needed them to do that so she could concentrate on her eggs. Heck might have been sitting on some at the bottom of that lava (just go with it!) and thus only emerged when the nest was threatened with complete destruction. It is interesting to consider that none of the regular dragons fight the vikings in that scene. Did they flee because they didn't want to fight, or because the Queen told them they shouldn't risk themselves and took charge of what should been a successful defense with zero dragon losses? It will never be answered I'm sure. Well, actually who knows what the third movie will hold, explaining the interweaving dragon life cycles could find a place.

[LadyTevar]

The "Queen" had been doing these raids for at least two generations, if not more. She was hitting not just Berk, but all the Vikings on all the isles she could reach. This was more than egg-sitting, this was abuse.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well, probably sure it was just mad power tripping, unless the Queen actually realized how much of a threat humans would be long term and was trying to drive them off or at least suppress them until she had a nice big clutch of giant babies to wipe them out with. Destroying and stealing economic resources was pretty much how all warfare worked back then too. Much less risky strategy then constant pitched battle as became typical in the industrial era.

One answer might be very likely, but it doesn't preclude the others considering how intelligent the smarter dragons seem to be. Specific size ought to have nothing to do with intelligence of course.