"Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

SCRawl wrote: From their interview, Hades seemed to give Dresden the impression that her shade wouldn't be too terribly mistreated. If Deirdre was to go the other way, i.e. to the biblical depictions of Hell -- and really, given their antics in life, can you really imagine the Denarians going any other way? -- I have to believe that things would have been worse.
When Dresden suggested such an idea, Hades suggested he go back and read his mythology books, pronto. Just saying.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

Hades is nothing but inventive when it comes to eternal punishment.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Terralthra »

SCRawl wrote:I don't recall any text on the placard being mentioned. It seems to make sense, given the other items (and the fact that the nails are already spoken for).
It says its too weathered to read if there was any writing. But given the company, I'd buy that its the INRI placard.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

Terralthra wrote:
SCRawl wrote:I don't recall any text on the placard being mentioned. It seems to make sense, given the other items (and the fact that the nails are already spoken for).
It says its too weathered to read if there was any writing. But given the company, I'd buy that its the INRI placard.
It says that the painted is too faded to tell what the symbols on it are. So presumably that's writing of some sort, just illegible.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by dragon »

Terralthra wrote:
SCRawl wrote:I don't recall any text on the placard being mentioned. It seems to make sense, given the other items (and the fact that the nails are already spoken for).
It says its too weathered to read if there was any writing. But given the company, I'd buy that its the INRI placard.
Why whats INRI?
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by SCRawl »

dragon wrote: Why whats INRI?
Here, let me help.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

SCRawl wrote:
dragon wrote: Why whats INRI?
Here, let me help.
WOW! I didn't know Google could do that! :oops:
As many have said, the Placard was the sign hanging on the cross over Jesus' head. It read Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. In Latin shorthand, that is INRI.
Because as we all know from "Indiana Jones & the Grail", Latin had no "j", so Jesus, Jehovah, and Jew all started with an I. (Iesus/Iesua, Iehovah, Iudah/Iew)
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by eyl »

LadyTevar wrote:
SCRawl wrote:
dragon wrote: Why whats INRI?
Here, let me help.
WOW! I didn't know Google could do that! :oops:
As many have said, the Placard was the sign hanging on the cross over Jesus' head. It read Jesus Christ, King of the Jews. In Latin shorthand, that is INRI.
Because as we all know from "Indiana Jones & the Grail", Latin had no "j", so Jesus, Jehovah, and Jew all started with an I. (Iesus/Iesua, Iehovah, Iudah/Iew)
An "I" would actually be much more in line with the Hebrew pronunciations than a "J"
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

BTW: Have you noticed we've not see the LeanneShidhe this novel?
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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
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Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Steve »

I'm sure she'll be back, probably in the next novel extensively involving Faerie. Like, say, when we find out if Fix let it be known that Harry has a daughter to someone who lost a daughter to him.

Granted... does Maggie's blood relation make her vulnerable to Faerie? We were told back in Summer Knight that mortals are off-limits to the beings of Faerie unless those mortals willingly connect themselves in some way to the Sidhe through things like contracts and pacts (like Harry did when he made his bargain with Lea). That's why the Winter and Summer Knights exist; as mortal beings they can do things in the mortal world no Sidhe could.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

Steve wrote:I'm sure she'll be back, probably in the next novel extensively involving Faerie. Like, say, when we find out if Fix let it be known that Harry has a daughter to someone who lost a daughter to him.

Granted... does Maggie's blood relation make her vulnerable to Faerie? We were told back in Summer Knight that mortals are off-limits to the beings of Faerie unless those mortals willingly connect themselves in some way to the Sidhe through things like contracts and pacts (like Harry did when he made his bargain with Lea). That's why the Winter and Summer Knights exist; as mortal beings they can do things in the mortal world no Sidhe could.
Eh. Titania has already passed up the chance to personally kill Harry. I doubt she'll take a swing at Maggie. She's not a murderer to all appearances, and she outright said Eldest Gruff made her see seeking vengeance was pointless.

Besides, I really doubt she wants Harry to be motivated to seek payback against Summer.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Steve »

You presume she's not infected by the adversary or that she won't change her mind in the future.

And not killing Harry isn't the same thing as not killing his daughter. Not making Harry experience her pain and suffering.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

Steve wrote:You presume she's not infected by the adversary or that she won't change her mind in the future.

And not killing Harry isn't the same thing as not killing his daughter. Not making Harry experience her pain and suffering.
Well yes, but I don't see any evidence that she is infected, and it seems like there would be signs if she was. Like, say, her launching a goddamn suicide run on Mab.

And no, it's not, but the one scene she's appeared in indicated pretty strongly that she was going to heed Eldest Gruff's counsel and not pursue revenge. However angry Fix may be, he's never done anything to indicate that he'd go after a child to punish her father, or work for someone who would. Remember, the Summer Knight's job is to stop the Winter Knight, just like Titania's job is to stop Mab. Going after Dresden's kid just isn't who either of them are.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by PKRudeBoy »

Ralin wrote:
Steve wrote:You presume she's not infected by the adversary or that she won't change her mind in the future.

And not killing Harry isn't the same thing as not killing his daughter. Not making Harry experience her pain and suffering.
Well yes, but I don't see any evidence that she is infected, and it seems like there would be signs if she was. Like, say, her launching a goddamn suicide run on Mab.

And no, it's not, but the one scene she's appeared in indicated pretty strongly that she was going to heed Eldest Gruff's counsel and not pursue revenge. However angry Fix may be, he's never done anything to indicate that he'd go after a child to punish her father, or work for someone who would. Remember, the Summer Knight's job is to stop the Winter Knight, just like Titania's job is to stop Mab. Going after Dresden's kid just isn't who either of them are.
Plus the fact that killing Maggie is probably the only thing that would push Dresden to perform the Darkhallow, and while Titania is so far out of his league that he would need the Hubble telescope just to see her, so was the Red King.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by PKRudeBoy »

Ghetto edit: On further thought, he doesn't even need the Darkhallow. He is quite capable of bring about the apocalypse on a whim now, and if someone killed Maggie I could see him going all Dark Willow and doing it.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

I wonder if Lea will become Maggie's GodMother as well.
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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

I actually meant to mention the Darkhallow thing too, yeah.

And I dunno, but I expect Dresden will do everything he can to keep Auntie Lea away from Maggie.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

The only Faerie he'd trust Maggie to is Molly these days...

And that's literally demonstrated when Molly says she's buying a house down the block and putting physical faeries in it to guard her house(which Maggie is in) from physical threats the angels can't interfere with and Harry accepts it without skipping a beat.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Elessar »

Gaidin wrote:The only Faerie he'd trust Maggie to is Molly these days...
Whether or not this is a smart move is another question to be answered in the next Faerie-centric novel. It has been mentioned that the Summer/Winter mantles affect the person within, and Maeve's mantle can't be good for Molly.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Gaidin »

Elessar wrote: Whether or not this is a smart move is another question to be answered in the next Faerie-centric novel. It has been mentioned that the Summer/Winter mantles affect the person within, and Maeve's mantle can't be good for Molly.
I'd bet it takes time as well compared to his mantle. She is immortal as opposed to like the Winter Knight. Her behavior is still relatively Molly, just older for lack of a better word. Hell she's still awkward about telling her parents about what happened and would rather them think she and Harry are in a relationship for god's sake. If nothing else screams Molly and not Winter Lady, that does.

Whether it's smart at this point in the timeline that Harry trust her can be debated. Whether he has a choice amongst other Winter fae that used to be mortal really can't.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

Elessar wrote:
Gaidin wrote:The only Faerie he'd trust Maggie to is Molly these days...
Whether or not this is a smart move is another question to be answered in the next Faerie-centric novel. It has been mentioned that the Summer/Winter mantles affect the person within, and Maeve's mantle can't be good for Molly.
Said it in the other thread but I'll say it again here: Yes, let's bet against the daughter of Michael and Charity Carpenter who was trained by Harry Dresden's ability to stubbornly cling to her principles in the face of temptation and supernatural manipulation.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

Ralin wrote:Said it in the other thread but I'll say it again here: Yes, let's bet against the daughter of Michael and Charity Carpenter who was trained by Harry Dresden's ability to stubbornly cling to her principles in the face of temptation and supernatural manipulation.
That's a sucker bet. Molly's already said flat out she's been having dream battles with some of the Fae, and it's now just a routine smackdown/get on with it. What I'm wanting to know is what Maeve had been slacking off on. What *is* the Winter Lady's job, and why wasn't Maeve doing it for 150yrs?
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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
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Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Ralin »

LadyTevar wrote:What I'm wanting to know is what Maeve had been slacking off on. What *is* the Winter Lady's job, and why wasn't Maeve doing it for 150yrs?
Dunno, but apparently the next short story is going to deal with Molly's first mission on the job. And there's Maeve's line about being Mab's "hunting falcon," and we know that the Lady and the Winter Knight typically work together, so...probably nothing pleasant.

Given what we know about Winter's purpose as of Cold Days the obvious possibility is that part of their duties involves breaking up Outsider cults/summoning attempts. Though that seems pretty straightforward and we're talking about fairies, so either its wrong or much more complicated.

And while I'm thinking about it: http://cryptidz.wikia.com/wiki/Genoskwa

Lends weight to the 'rival group' theory vs the 'outcast Forest People' one.
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by Rogue 9 »

Terralthra wrote:The knife could be the spear of the lance of longinus, but that seems like a bit of a stretch. A spear point doesn't look like a knife at all, and it's rather consistently called a knife, not a spear-tip.
He did say it had a leaf-shaped blade, which is consistent with some types of broad spear points.

And now I need to go back through and re-read everything Dresden and Grey said to each other. :lol:
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Re: "Skin Game" Discussion (Dresden Files novel - Spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar »

Rogue, once you reread the Dresden/Grey conversations, it's so VERY CLEAR.
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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
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