Should Capt America be gay?

[Broomstick]

Or he says a phrase that used to be acceptable, does not realize it is now considered offensive, is corrected by someone else, and we see him undergoing adaption and change. Or maybe he doesn't change, but states something along the lines of respecting people you disagree with, or that disagreeing with someone regarding a social custom does not bar respecting them as a human being, working with them, etc.

There are a bunch of ways for that to play out.

[jwl]

I agree with batman. I would prefer if superhero movies in general would do away with the romantic subplots and focus on the stuff I actually care about, unless there is a pretty major reason to include it. Don't add a love interest for the sake of adding a love interest.

[Elheru Aran]

They do touch on the whole "man out of his time" bit a little more explicitly in the Ultimates comics; never really noticed it so much in the regular comics aside from the occasional cheesy preaching or the throwaway "huh, that's new" scene.

In Ultimates, mostly the first volume IIRC, they deal with this largely by showing him moving back into his old apartment (which is now a very run-down area), listening to cheesy old music, going after Hank after he beats up his wife... things like that (although the latter is a little less period, more masculine posturing). All told, it wasn't presented too badly. IIRC, one of the lines that stands out is when Cap first meets Fury, and he says something along the lines of "The highest ranking black man in the Army right now is a supply sergeant". Makes the fact that things were really different back then pretty stark.

[Tsyroc]

They do touch on the whole "man out of his time" bit a little more explicitly in the Ultimates comics; never really noticed it so much in the regular comics aside from the occasional cheesy preaching or the throwaway "huh, that's new" scene.

In Ultimates, mostly the first volume IIRC, they deal with this largely by showing him moving back into his old apartment (which is now a very run-down area), listening to cheesy old music, going after Hank after he beats up his wife... things like that (although the latter is a little less period, more masculine posturing). All told, it wasn't presented too badly. IIRC, one of the lines that stands out is when Cap first meets Fury, and he says something along the lines of "The highest ranking black man in the Army right now is a supply sergeant". Makes the fact that things were really different back then pretty stark.

One of the bits that I liked about Ultimate Cap had to do him missing the entire Cold War. He had a much better opinion of Russians because he had worked with them during WWII and had a good opinion of them from that.

[Tsyroc]

I agree with batman. I would prefer if superhero movies in general would do away with the romantic subplots and focus on the stuff I actually care about, unless there is a pretty major reason to include it. Don't add a love interest for the sake of adding a love interest.

I think this is an issue with the Thor movies but they are kind of stuck with it now. They even have the whole deal with Sif, who is the person he should really be romantically linked to.

I could see maybe having Cap show an inkling of romantic interest for some character in one of his movies, or as a small scene in an Avengers movie, but I liked how in the Winter Soldier that he was dealing with his situation by staying busy. I can't really imagine how tough it must be for him to be trying to adjust. At least he was from New York City. Can you imagine if he was a rural farm kid in the 40s and then had this time jump. Talk about moving to the big city.

[Lagmonster]

It may be just me, but I think movie Cap seems to excel at Black/White motives, which is another reason I'd like to see him have to give a little introspection to his beliefs. His relief is almost palpable in Winter Soldier when the movie shifts from spy thriller to action movie. He seems unclear of his role in the modern world and SHIELD in particular, and then OH THANK GOD NAZI FACES TO PUNCH THIS IS SO MUCH EASIER.

[Sidewinder]

IIRC, one of the lines that stands out is when Cap first meets Fury, and he says something along the lines of "The highest ranking black man in the Army right now is a supply sergeant".

Steve Rogers was referring to a captain he went to school with.

[Elheru Aran]

IIRC, one of the lines that stands out is when Cap first meets Fury, and he says something along the lines of "The highest ranking black man in the Army right now is a supply sergeant".

Steve Rogers was referring to a captain he went to school with.

Well, it's been a long time since I read those comics... Point was Steve wasn't buying Fury being a general and thinking it was all some Nazi plot to screw with his head. Let's be honest-- African-American soldiers served mostly in segregated units or service roles, and there was only one black general at the time (Benjamin Davis). In his role as superhero figurehead of the US military, he would've encountered a good few of the general staff and fought largely alongside white troops (the token black guy in the Howling Commandos excepted, and it doesn't look like they featured much in the Ultimate universe).

As such, an integrated military and officer corps would be difficult, at the very least, for a soldier of the 1940s to buy when transplanted suddenly into the 2000's. To his credit, after the initial beating up of Fury when he tried to escape after being unfrozen, he seems to have accepted it quickly enough.

You know, Lag's comment brings up a question. I'm assuming there have been but I've never read them, have there been any stories which put Cap in a strictly civilian role versus military with its rules and regimentation? Or has he always just been 'part of the army'?

[Grumman]

You know, Lag's comment brings up a question. I'm assuming there have been but I've never read them, have there been any stories which put Cap in a strictly civilian role versus military with its rules and regimentation? Or has he always just been 'part of the army'?

In Cable and Deadpool, He was sent undercover as an immigrant to Cable's floating island nation. I suppose that would count.

[Tsyroc]

You know, Lag's comment brings up a question. I'm assuming there have been but I've never read them, have there been any stories which put Cap in a strictly civilian role versus military with its rules and regimentation? Or has he always just been 'part of the army'?

I'm not sure the original version was officially part of the Army as Captain America. I know that Pvt Steve Rogers was in the Army, and he had a C.O. that was after him for disappearing a lot, but I'm not sure that technically Captain America was "Army". That's obviously not the case in the movies. He's definitely Army, and I think Ultimate Cap was also in the Army. He's shown several times in the modern world wearing his Army uniform.

616 Cap mostly just has special status as an Avenger and nominally a SHIELD agent. As far as I know he's not officially in the Army after he's thawed out. In the 80's the government pulled a douchebag move to get him to toe the line. Since he wouldn't be their stooge they claimed that he didn't have the right to the shield or the Captain America uniform. They gave them to someone who was more into the Reagan era do what the government commands type of patriotism. Anyway, even if he's not officially in the Army but military personnel will tend to follow his orders and normally salute him out of respect.

[NeoGoomba]

I may be confusing storylines, but when the government relived Rogers of the Captain America mantle and gave it to that US Agent clown, I'm pretty sure he became a high school teacher. Which would have been fucking awesome.

Mr. Rogers (hah): "Okay class, I know we just reviewed Chapter 4 of your US History textbook, but let me give you a little more insight into how things really were in 1943..."

Student: *groans* "Mr. Rogers, dude, just stop. Stop talking like you were there. You do this all the time. You're, what, thirty-two?"

Mr. Rogers: *sigh* "Fine. Open to Chapter 5."

[Alyrium Denryle]

Given that Cap was "Mr. 1940's American White Male" I think it would be interesting to portray how he is handling the changing in social attitudes. Actually, I think that would be more interesting than making him gay. Cap is supposed to be the quintessential good guy and hero, but he was raised in an era where homosexuals were regarded much as we today regard child molesters. Rinse and repeat for casual sex, sex outside of marriage, and so forth. It's an opportunity to educate people on just how much society has changed on the topic.

I haven't seem them touch on that in the movies at all. I don't want them to beat the audience over the head with it but it would add a certain depth to his character and storytelling that really isn't available to other characters in the Marvel movie universe because they aren't as old as Cap. (Wolverine might be another one, except it's established his memory is sort of fucked up. Other than Magneto and Professor Xavier who else would be in the right age group?)

Here is the problem. He Never Was That. He was not the stereotypical 1940s American White Male. His character is the personal embodiment of the ideals of the united states. Not its population. Not the execution. But the platonic form of what those ideals are. Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness with all humans being created equal. The duty of the state is to ensure the rights of citizens and act to advance the general welfare of the population. Racism? Fuck that, No. Everyone is equal. Homophobia? Fuck that No, everyone should be able to seek their own happiness. He might not be up to the standards of a modern 4th wave feminist in some ways (he might have some anachronistic ideas about culturally appropriate gender roles, Rosie the Riveter aside), but his personality is such that he would grasp ideas like Male Privilege pretty quickly if you explain it to him.

The whole point of Captain America is that he is in fact a paragon of virtue, better than the population as a whole and better than the time period in which he was raised and in which he is written.