Captain America: The Winter Soldier Reviews (SPOILERS)

[Crazedwraith]

I ain't seen this film yet.

But... because I have a bugbear about movie discussion going on in a trailer thread. Here is a review thread for the new Captain America film. Feel free to go wild with unmarked spoilers.

[2000AD]

So with SHIELD being gone now I'm wondering what the heck is going to happen in 'Agents of SHIELD' for the end of this season / next season, not to mention the knock on effect for the rest of the Marvel films as SHIELD is pretty much present in each one. There's now a buttload of questions you can raise for Agents with what is revealed in Winter Soldier:
- Was the bunker that Coulson was ressurected in part of Hyrda?
- Is May secretly reporting to Fury, Hydra or other?
- Given Zola said they could use algorithms to predict peoples futures does that hint at the Clairvoyant being part of Hydra?
- All of SHIELDS secrets being made public presumably means the people that were after Skye now have an idea where she is.
- With Sitwell confirmed Hydra how many others from the series are compromised? Hand?
- Seriously, what's going to happen to the team in season 2 (assuming there is one)? I'd imagine they'd go with Fury, but I bet that plane is going to be out of their budget now that SHIELD isn't around.

Is the glowy thing in Loki's sceptre now pretty much confirmed as one of the Infinity Gems? Since it can apparently do more than just mind beinding, it can turn people into Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.

Finally did anyone recognise any of the name drops? I only got the blatant Stephen Strange, but they also mentioned "A head teacher in [somewhere]" and there was a lot of names popping up when they were doing the satellite scans.

[streetad]

I didn't catch where the 'head teacher' was from either. Charles Xavier (since they presumably wouldn't be able to refer to him by name)?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I just got back from seeing it. As well as the issues raised as to what will happen in the series, I have to wonder if it's to be revealed that the man Peggy married is Howard Stark and is thus Tony's mother. They certainly made sure to get in several references to Stark tech as well as their offices.

Thanks to the trailers, I already knew to expect some helicarriers to crash, the only question was how and it was answered by them destroying each other. When it became obvious they had to be stopped, suddenly them crashing wasn't a big deal- that one could crash into the HQ and still fly (albeit not for very long) was a testament to their design.

With all the guns that the MKII carriers were packing, I have to assume they were not fitted with the same cloaking tech that the first helicarrier had. Presumably the original was refitted from ducted fans to turbines and used as the prototype/tested from which the "flying battleships" were developed. I'd expect the original to reappear in Ultron, presumably with the turbines.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

There was also that douchebag Stern seen in Iron Man 2 that puts in an appearance and has been implicated in the Hydra plot.

[streetad]

Thing is, cool as those heli-carriers were, they were utterly impractical for the stated purpose for which they were built, which seemed to be 'fly slowly around the world, methodically shelling anyone whose Facebook profile suggests they might be opposed to being run by a neo-Nazi techno-shogunate.

Actually, on second thoughts, they are exactly the sort of ludicrous 'wunder-waffen' the Nazis WOULD have built instead of the ten thousand drones they could have had for the same cost....

[Bedlam]

Didn't really spoil the film for me but from the point that Cap escaped from the Shield base I was saying, call Stark, call Stark! But that's the problem with a large universe of interlinking films.

I sort of expected a Coulson cameo at some point if not in the film than at least in one of the credit sequences.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Especially since JARVIS was capable of hacking SHIELD's firewall, which is how Stark found out about "phase 2" and thus would have also been able to hack the contents of the USB flash drive without having to go to that bunker with Zola's consciousness which was almost immediately destroyed.

It was pretty much a given that the only person Cap could trust was Romanov, even if it took him a while to realise it And I don't think that anybody watching was fooled into thinking Fury was really dead given the setting

Falcon was pretty cool though and wasn't shoehorned in like Zola was, though you just knew that at some point his wings were going to get damaged and thus take him out of the fight.

[JME2]

There was also that douchebag Stern seen in Iron Man 2 that puts in an appearance and has been implicated in the Hydra plot.

I like how this forces one to re-evaluate Iron Man 2.

In trying to get Tony to hand over the Iron Man tech to the US government, Stern was really hoping to get it turned over to HYDRA.

They probably figured Tony wouldn't make the Avengers Initiative cut, so it was a backup plan.

Given the extent of the resurgent HYDRA'S activities, they also very likely had some involvement in the Extremis conspiracy during Iron Man 3.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I enjoyed the film, although as others have mentioned I wonder what this means for Coulson and co. And Avengers 2.

Also, the history of SHIELD seems a bit mixed up. The First Iron Man sort of implied it was new (Coulson et al were still working on a decent name rather than the full title for instance) but now it's been around for decades. Oh well.

The new helicarriers were pretty cool. When they started shooting I got a real Nelson-era vibe with them trading broadsides and all.

[JME2]

I'm getting ideas about what triggers AOU and the cinematic android's creation now.

Like their WWII predecessors, neo-HYDRA's tapping an alien artifact's energies. And if they've looted S.H.I.E.L.D. property, that means they likely have the Destroyer now, too.

The android may be a creation of theirs that gets out of hand -- an amalgamation of Infinity Stone energy and Asgardian/Stark tech.

[JME2]

I will admit, I am curious to know how Tony's going to react when Steve tells him about HYDRA's role in the Starks' deaths. He made peace with his father issues...but this could bring it all back in the open.

As it is, I do love that HYDRA's indirectly responsible for the eventual creation of Iron Man. If they hadn't killed Howard, Tony wouldn't have assumed control of SI as early as he did and quite possibly, might never have overseen the weapons test in Afghanistan.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Of course, it means that as long as the Tesseract was in Shield's possession, Hydra would have had access to all that they learned- since Stark found it on the ocean floor when looking for cap they potentially have had decades to work on it. It also boosts the significance of the Hydra weapon that Cap found in Avengers, and for that matter just where Red Skull was sent at the end of The First Avenger.

I must have missed the part of the film where it was revealed that Shield/Hydra were responsible for the deaths of Howard and Maria Stark in a car crash, which all but rules out Peggy as being Tony's mother after all.

EDIT: Re: The Destroyer, that very much depends on if the smaller-scale hand-held version shown being used by Coulson can be made more than just once, or if it contains destroyer components that cannot be duplicated without obtaining more Asgardian Tech.

[JME2]

Good point about the Destroyer.

We also shouldn't forget the Dark Elf tech that Team Coulson recovered from Greenwich.

So that means HYDRA likely has access to multiple bits of alien technology (Asgardian, Chitauri, and Dark Elf ) in addition to an Infinity Stone (assuming Loki's Scepter is indeed the Mind Gem).

This is bad on so many levels and it gives the MCU a greet deal of dramatic mileage for the next few years.

[Iroscato]

Saw it the other day, I thought it was pretty bloody amazing. It was just so much...MORE than it needed to be - intelligent, witty, stuffed with action, kept a good pace throughout whilst remaining at a healthy running time, well-acted and amazingly well-made.
I was genuinely surprised by the inclusion of Zola as well, though I assume he really is gone this time what with the data banks being destroyed. The hand to hand combat was highly impressive and felt quite brutal and impactful.
I also really liked the idea of Cap's old-school values being tested in the modern era's increasingly complicated world, continuing Coulson's sentiment that sometimes "We need a little old-fashioned".
Certainly the best Phase 2 film so far IMO...now onward to GOTG!

[JME2]

Certainly the best Phase 2 film so far IMO...now onward to GOTG!

Aye; bring on the raccoon...

[AniThyng]

Good point about the Destroyer.

We also shouldn't forget the Dark Elf tech that Team Coulson recovered from Greenwich.

So that means HYDRA likely has access to multiple bits of alien technology (Asgardian, Chitauri, and Dark Elf ) in addition to an Infinity Stone (assuming Loki's Scepter is indeed the Mind Gem).

This is bad on so many levels and it gives the MCU a greet deal of dramatic mileage for the next few years.

How powerful is the CIA in this universe? Is there any significance to Sharon wearing a CIA shirt at the end or is it just a background throwaway thing to give some flavor?

Also, did anyone get a good look at the patch on the guard in the baron's bunker? was it a hydra patch or the patch of yet another above board organization?

[Bedlam]

Good point about the Destroyer.

We also shouldn't forget the Dark Elf tech that Team Coulson recovered from Greenwich.

So that means HYDRA likely has access to multiple bits of alien technology (Asgardian, Chitauri, and Dark Elf ) in addition to an Infinity Stone (assuming Loki's Scepter is indeed the Mind Gem).

This is bad on so many levels and it gives the MCU a greet deal of dramatic mileage for the next few years.

How powerful is the CIA in this universe? Is there any significance to Sharon wearing a CIA shirt at the end or is it just a background throwaway thing to give some flavor?

Also, did anyone get a good look at the patch on the guard in the baron's bunker? was it a hydra patch or the patch of yet another above board organization?

I just took it as an indication of the SHIELD agents going off and getting work appropriate to their skills once it was shut down, hence CIA, Stark enterprises, etc. (Although I can certainly see the CIA, NSA, etc) being very interested in poaching SHIELD equipment and personnel)

[EnterpriseSovereign]

You can see how with Cap, Bucky's and Romanov's abilities lend themselves more to practical effects over CGI, with the notable exception of throwing the shield.

I'm sure the significance of Cap actually dropping the shield from the dying helicarrier and it landing who-knows-where won't be forgotten- either a member of the public will find it and either hand it in or keep it as a trophy, or alternatively some HYDRA mook will come across it. Since it's been established that the shield can block strikes from Mjolnir and reflect Iron Man's repulsors I can see how it might cause problems if another bad guy gets a hold of it. I can imagine how much of a potential boost it could give to someone with a centipede implant, for example.

We kind of have to assume that the original Helicarrier (if it still exists) is in the hands of Stark R&D since the 3 new ones had been fitted with some form of turbines (which can be justified to account for the extra weight and power requirements all the extra guns would bring). Assuming it's on the ground, or if airbourne was too far away to be of any use.

On the topic of guns, I could see how the ones firing at Falcon would struggle to hit him given they were most likely designed to hit fighters, not man-sized opponents. On the other hand however, given all the flak that was going off I find it hard to see how he wouldn't have gotten shredded since the suit has virtually no armour whatsoever. And whoever suggested he was the first black superhero had clearly forgotten about War Machine

[The Guid]

Just a quick thing but was the "Why not call Iron Man?" handwaved away at all? Obviously out of universe its because it isn't his film, but I like to make as much in universe sense of something as possible. I mean, getting someone from outside of Shield (and therefore definitely not Hydra), as well as someone perfectly placed to destroy those carriers doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.

[streetad]

It wasn't mentioned as be option. I just figured that, as Pierce, the first thing I would do when Steve busts out would be to put some men on Tony Stark.
.

[Lord Revan]

do we know when this film happens in relation to Iron Man 3? I mean didn't Stark destroy all Iron Man tech at the end of Iron Man 3(with the possible exception of War Machine/Iron Patriot), so it could be possible that Tony Stark wasn't in a condition to help either due to fighting the Mandarin, suffering PTSD or no longer possessing the Iron Man tech.

[Iroscato]

I don't think he destroyed all of his armours, but certainly most of them, namely the ones he had built during his downward spiral after New York. Maybe he's busy (SPOILERS for All Hail The King) Spoiler

Trying to track down who kidnapped Trevor Slattery

[EnterpriseSovereign]

A promotional Tie-in aired on UK TV: Link. I have to wonder if Sky is doing this overseas as well

[Gandalf]

Fury's tombstone was one of the best little things in this film series.

There is a lot I liked about this film, and a few things I found odd. Making so many people consciously part of Hydra weakened the drama. Pierce was interesting as the 21st century realpolitik drone warfare type guy, because he provided a differing perspective on how SHIELD should operate in an increasingly superpowered world. That created (at first) an interesting conflict, because Pierce was just as patriotic as Cap, but taking a very differing approach to the same ends.

Instead, we just got more pseudoNazis.