So I am watching the avengers movie

[Simon_Jester]

You know, that's actually a very good point.

It also places a very different light on the "contest of the manipulators" aspect of the meeting between Loki and Black Widow.

Sort of like how Loki got into a fight with Cap, and sure he was winning but he seemed almost annoyed- thinking 'why is he not kneeling,' actually specifically demanding this.

So now Loki gets into a conversation with this puny human, and he expects to be able to practically mind-control her and tell her terrible things for fun, and then she just... straightens up and his whole act was a complete no-sell on her.

Hm. Interesting, and it does explain the look on his face, more like the other times Loki's been taken aback that something flat out didn't work. Like trying to mind-control Tony Stark, where he looks dumbfounded, like he'd pulled the trigger on a gun and nothing had happened.

[Borgholio]

Like trying to mind-control Tony Stark, where he looks dumbfounded, like he'd pulled the trigger on a gun and nothing had happened.

Or telling the Hulk that he's a dull creature and to stop being a bully. Single best scene in the movie.

[Simon_Jester]

Well no, in that case Loki's reaction wasn't "wait, that was supposed to work, why didn't that work."

It was more like "OH GOD THE PAIN MAKE IT STOP."

Which is pretty much what anyone is going to feel after telling off the Incredible Hulk, so it offers no particular insights into Loki's character or personality.

[Ahriman238]

One theory I've heard, not really sold on it, is that Thanos was himself controlling Loki through the scepter. Sort of a 'take this and infect all others you can.' sort of deal.

[Gandalf]

Hm. Interesting, and it does explain the look on his face, more like the other times Loki's been taken aback that something flat out didn't work. Like trying to mind-control Tony Stark, where he looks dumbfounded, like he'd pulled the trigger on a gun and nothing had happened.

Interestingly, that ties up with one of my biggest criticisms of the film (not counting things that came up in Straha's reading when it was released); that the Loki-Poki stick just didn't work on Stark, and that this has no explanation or foreshadowing whatsoever. Does the glowy thing in his chest have some sort of magic resonance with the glowy thing in the spear?

At least when the same thing happened in Serenity, Whedon had Mal say "BTW, that doesn't work on me because of an old accident. I'll win now."

[Iroscato]

Does the glowy thing in his chest have some sort of magic resonance with the glowy thing in the spear

Possibly - I've often thought that Arc rector technology is in fact the first step towards creating something similiar to the Tesseract - but I interpret it as Tony's arc reactor simply blocking direct access to his heart from the staff. Maybe the staff uses the circulatory system to spread its control, I don't know, but that's how I see it.

[Vendetta]

Hm. Interesting, and it does explain the look on his face, more like the other times Loki's been taken aback that something flat out didn't work. Like trying to mind-control Tony Stark, where he looks dumbfounded, like he'd pulled the trigger on a gun and nothing had happened.

Interestingly, that ties up with one of my biggest criticisms of the film (not counting things that came up in Straha's reading when it was released); that the Loki-Poki stick just didn't work on Stark, and that this has no explanation or foreshadowing whatsoever. Does the glowy thing in his chest have some sort of magic resonance with the glowy thing in the spear?

At least when the same thing happened in Serenity, Whedon had Mal say "BTW, that doesn't work on me because of an old accident. I'll win now."

More likely it just needs to touch the skin over the heart, and the arc reactor is in the way.

[Napoleon the Clown]

The noticeable *ting* sound when the staff touches the chest plate makes me think that it's the cause of the staff not doing its thing. Likely because it doesn't "allow" the staff to "interface" with Tony's heart. Or something.


That or Tony's too much of an egotistical dickweasel to be affected by the staff.

[Batman]

The notion I got from that scene was that somehow the Arc reactor in Tony's chest prevented the staff from working, yes. And if anything being an egotistical dickweasel should make Tony even more susceptible to the staff's influence, not less.

[Borgholio]

Seemed to me that it requires actual flesh contact. His arc reactor is basically a small piece of chest armor that could not be corrupted.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Pretty sure Hawkeye and all the others Loki mind-controlled at the start of the movie were wearing body armor that was kevlar and possibly even ceramic plates. The staff may be able to only "reach" through so much material before whatever it does is stopped, or the nature of the ARC reactor itself is what made things not work. Either theory is plausible.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Consider also that the Arc reactor is/was exactly where Tony's heart should be. Since Tony has since managed to remove the shrapnel (which if you remember came from one of his own weapons going off in his face) and was seen throwing the empty casing into the sea at the end of IM3, it does make you wonder if he's now vulnerable to control via the sceptre.

Of course, they'd have to portray that without it coming off as re-using something that came up in one of the earlier films.
Spoiler

And with the Release of Captain America: TWS, it's been revealed that the Glowstick of Destiny is now in the possession of HYDRA.

[Replicant]

Hm. Interesting, and it does explain the look on his face, more like the other times Loki's been taken aback that something flat out didn't work. Like trying to mind-control Tony Stark, where he looks dumbfounded, like he'd pulled the trigger on a gun and nothing had happened.

Interestingly, that ties up with one of my biggest criticisms of the film (not counting things that came up in Straha's reading when it was released); that the Loki-Poki stick just didn't work on Stark, and that this has no explanation or foreshadowing whatsoever. Does the glowy thing in his chest have some sort of magic resonance with the glowy thing in the spear?

At least when the same thing happened in Serenity, Whedon had Mal say "BTW, that doesn't work on me because of an old accident. I'll win now."

I liked the scene because the clink on the arc reactor was very obvious to hear and yet Loki was completely puzzled over why it didn't work. The scene tells you that Loki really does not know how the scepter works at all. He fully expects it to work even though he heard the clink, so the fact that it hit mental instead of skin was not the reason.

My guess on why it didn't work. The arc reactor is well a reactor, and like all reactors has shielding around it to keep energy from just escaping in all directions. That shielding kept the energy of the staff from penetrating into Tony. If Loki has been smart and moved the point three or four inches in any direction he may have affected Tony just fine.

[Borgholio]

If Loki has been smart

Yeah he's really not that smart. If he were, he wouldn't have called the Hulk stupid right to his face.

[Simon_Jester]

Honestly, if one were smart one wouldn't be calling the Hulk anything to his face; one wouldn't get near the guy.

[Batman]

Yes, but when was the last time somebody did the smart thing in superhero fiction? For starters, if people did, there'd be a lot less of it.

[SAMAS]

It would be a horrible plan, though. He was told outright that fucking things up would end very badly for him, no matter where he ran to. His god-complex might make him dismiss the idea that they'd be able to go through with it, though...

Not necessarily. If they were to show up right now, demanding the Tessaract, he's in the position to just give it to them.