Rowling says Harry and Hermione should have gotten married.

[Thanas]

That is a bit too harsh IMO - while he is easily the worst out of the three he does provide much needed emotional help and relief.

[The Xeelee]

Her mistake was not having hermione have a lesbian sex scene in the last book.

[Simon_Jester]

Harry/Ginny bothers me a bit because it comes out of nowhere in the sixth book, with a bit character who got hardly any development (and all that she did get she got when eleven years old.) And yeah, in real life these things come out of nowhere.

Hermione/Ron was well set up, and the ship wars over which guy Hermione would land got really fucking silly. But they're done now. The part that strikes my curiosity, Rowling has repeatedly said that Hermione was based on herself when she was young; bookish, bossy, bit of a know-it-all but well-meaning, involved with social activism projects nobody else really cares about, etc. So how is it 'wish-fulfilment' for the author avatar to end up with Ron?

Maybe Rowling wishes she had a man like Ron would likely grow into, very decent and honest, instead of a man who she felt compelled to divorce after only three years and who is suspected of having abused her?

Granted, Harry would probably also grow up very decent and honest, so I dunno. What differences between Harry and Ron might one point out?

[Raw Shark]

Maybe Rowling wishes she had a man like Ron would likely grow into, very decent and honest, instead of a man who she felt compelled to divorce after only three years and who is suspected of having abused her?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Ron's loyal, reliable, has never taken a swing at Hermione after seven years of her pissing him off, etc.

Granted, Harry would probably also grow up very decent and honest, so I dunno. What differences between Harry and Ron might one point out?

Well, not every woman wants to be with a man who's terribly bright...

[Napoleon the Clown]

I think she was referring to it the other way around, where Hermione is this extremely talented, intelligent, brave wizard and Ron is far less special from a magical standpoint. It isn't Hermione getting Ron that's wish fulfillment, it's Ron getting together with Hermione. Ron's the everyman and he ends up marrying a girl that everybody who doesn't automatically hate "mud bloods" would come to respect the skills of. Just speculation, though, as I haven't read the books and only have what I've heard to go off of.

Keep in mind that every character in the story can be a "part" of the author. Just because a fair bit of Hermione's personality has been stated to be based off hers doesn't mean Hermione will represent Rowling's every desire. Other characters can fill that role, when it makes more sense for that character to have that role.

[Simon_Jester]

Maybe Rowling wishes she had a man like Ron would likely grow into, very decent and honest, instead of a man who she felt compelled to divorce after only three years and who is suspected of having abused her?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Ron's loyal, reliable, has never taken a swing at Hermione after seven years of her pissing him off, etc.

Granted, Harry would probably also grow up very decent and honest, so I dunno. What differences between Harry and Ron might one point out?

Well, not every woman wants to be with a man who's terribly bright...

Harry's not exactly a super-genius.

Anything aside from that? I mean, would we really describe Ron as "like Harry, only dumber?" Is Ron perhaps... bolder and more rash? Perhaps Rowling considers that kind of always-go-in-first attitude attractive in males. Ron has a large, basically well-adjusted family; maybe Rowling wishes she had a good crop of in-laws?

I think she was referring to it the other way around, where Hermione is this extremely talented, intelligent, brave wizard and Ron is far less special from a magical standpoint. It isn't Hermione getting Ron that's wish fulfillment, it's Ron getting together with Hermione. Ron's the everyman and he ends up marrying a girl that everybody who doesn't automatically hate "mud bloods" would come to respect the skills of. Just speculation, though, as I haven't read the books and only have what I've heard to go off of.

Keep in mind that every character in the story can be a "part" of the author. Just because a fair bit of Hermione's personality has been stated to be based off hers doesn't mean Hermione will represent Rowling's every desire. Other characters can fill that role, when it makes more sense for that character to have that role.

Ah. OK, that would make sense. On the other hand, when I hear that a female author wrote a particular character as based off her personality, and then that she spent several books setting up said female character to go with a male character as 'wish fulfillment...' I start by looking for reasons why that male character might be the sort of person the author would want to live with.

Or, in this case, at least reasons why Ron might be the sort of boyfriend Rowling wishes she HAD had when she was eighteen.

I mean, if the books had been written by a man, and Ron was avowedly based off his own personality in real life... we would pretty much assume that Hermione is close to his dream girl.

[The Romulan Republic]

Her mistake was not having hermione have a lesbian sex scene in the last book.

Shit like this is why I hate shippers.

[Raw Shark]

Maybe Rowling wishes she had a man like Ron would likely grow into, very decent and honest, instead of a man who she felt compelled to divorce after only three years and who is suspected of having abused her?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Ron's loyal, reliable, has never taken a swing at Hermione after seven years of her pissing him off, etc.

Granted, Harry would probably also grow up very decent and honest, so I dunno. What differences between Harry and Ron might one point out?

Well, not every woman wants to be with a man who's terribly bright...

Harry's not exactly a super-genius.

Anything aside from that? I mean, would we really describe Ron as "like Harry, only dumber?" Is Ron perhaps... bolder and more rash? Perhaps Rowling considers that kind of always-go-in-first attitude attractive in males. Ron has a large, basically well-adjusted family; maybe Rowling wishes she had a good crop of in-laws?

I wouldn't exactly not describe Ron as, "like Harry, only dumber," if I was pressed for time, but it's fair to say that there's more that differentiates them than that. The huge, stable family (and probable desire for the same) may count for a lot with an only child whose parents are still married. Harry is also, for better or worse, famous no matter what he does, which might be unattractive to somebody who wants a simple domestic life and/or a spotlight of their own, while Ron could plausibly disappear with ease from the public eye and just pump out a dozen genetically-blessed Weasley/Granger spawn and fuck around in the garden for the next fifty years.

[Thanas]

I wouldn't exactly not describe Ron as, "like Harry, only dumber," if I was pressed for time, but it's fair to say that there's more that differentiates them than that. The huge, stable family (and probable desire for the same) may count for a lot with an only child whose parents are still married. Harry is also, for better or worse, famous no matter what he does, which might be unattractive to somebody who wants a simple domestic life and/or a spotlight of their own, while Ron could plausibly disappear with ease from the public eye and just pump out a dozen genetically-blessed Weasley/Granger spawn and fuck around in the garden for the next fifty years.

OTOH, they are not exactly sharing many interests and from what little I remember from the books she didn't put much stuff in the stable family anyway. And none of them will ever be able to disappear after Voldemort's defeat.

[Crazedwraith]

Harry and Hermione hardly share interests either. In fact, while I've not intensively read up on Harry/Hermione shipping, that I have read kinda of boilled down to two things: a)Hermione never abandoned Harry like Ron did. 2)Harry is closer to being Hermione's intellectual equal than Ron with.

Both points that seem to boil down more to 'ron is shit' than 'Harry and Hermione belong to each other'

Which is what makes me grind my teeth because Ron's strong points and moments are generally ignored by the fandom. (and even by the author in later books who gave him much less strong moments and emphasised his flaws more than other characters')

[Raw Shark]

I wouldn't exactly not describe Ron as, "like Harry, only dumber," if I was pressed for time, but it's fair to say that there's more that differentiates them than that. The huge, stable family (and probable desire for the same) may count for a lot with an only child whose parents are still married. Harry is also, for better or worse, famous no matter what he does, which might be unattractive to somebody who wants a simple domestic life and/or a spotlight of their own, while Ron could plausibly disappear with ease from the public eye and just pump out a dozen genetically-blessed Weasley/Granger spawn and fuck around in the garden for the next fifty years.

OTOH, they are not exactly sharing many interests

Hey, maybe that's part of JK's ideal man, too, right? I imagine that R&H probably don't spend all their time together, and that they still bitch each other out all the time when they do. :]

and from what little I remember from the books she didn't put much stuff in the stable family anyway.

I honestly don't remember any statements Hermione ever made on the subject; I was just projecting my own sentiments as an only child with married parents who's probably marrying a girl from a huge, stable family for reasons that I consider probably-linked.

And none of them will ever be able to disappear after Voldemort's defeat.

True, but there's a fair amount of wiggle room between "The Visually-Marked Chosen One" and "One of the Couple Dozen Kids Who Showed Up for the Big Climax."

[Thanas]

Man, I don't really have an interest into getting in a shipping discussion. My own experience is just that people go after each other who share interests and that seems to be more suited to Harry and Hermione, who after all are both Muggles and can probably empathize more with each other, which seems to be a recurrent theme throughout the books given that they seem to get each other way more than the other way around. Book 5 does a lot of that iirc and even in book 1 the two seem to get along better. So based on my personal and my gfs opinion the two seemed to be a much better pair than Ron and Hermione were.


But that is just an opinion and I don't really want to spent arguing a lot of time about ships in children books, so I'll bow out now.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Thanas raises a good point about Harry and Hermione both being raised as muggles. They also both had unhappy childhoods; Hermione obviously not to the same extant as Harry's but it's clear she wasn't very popular at muggle school and based on her personality spent a huge amount of time reading alone.

That would give her and Harry a strong bond of commonality, unlike Ron who grew up in a big happy family (and as made clear in book seven) never went hungry at home, unlike the other two.

[Elheru Aran]

Thanas raises a good point about Harry and Hermione both being raised as muggles. They also both had unhappy childhoods; Hermione obviously not to the same extant as Harry's but it's clear she wasn't very popular at muggle school and based on her personality spent a huge amount of time reading alone.

That would give her and Harry a strong bond of commonality, unlike Ron who grew up in a big happy family (and as made clear in book seven) never went hungry at home, unlike the other two.

On the other hand, Hermione would have given her eyeteeth to have grown up with a magic family like Ron's and not have to hide anything from her parents like she does...

[JLTucker]

Thanas raises a good point about Harry and Hermione both being raised as muggles. They also both had unhappy childhoods; Hermione obviously not to the same extant as Harry's but it's clear she wasn't very popular at muggle school and based on her personality spent a huge amount of time reading alone.

That would give her and Harry a strong bond of commonality, unlike Ron who grew up in a big happy family (and as made clear in book seven) never went hungry at home, unlike the other two.

Does Hermione ever let it be known she went hungry while living with her dentist parents?

On the other hand, Hermione would have given her eyeteeth to have grown up with a magic family like Ron's and not have to hide anything from her parents like she does...

What does she hide from her parents?

[Eternal_Freedom]

She didn't go hungry with her parents, she did during book 4 and the SPEW thing. The point was (in book 7 anyway) that Ron didn't know what eight hours without food was like while the other two did.

Now that I think about it, both Harry and Hermione see the magical world as a way to escape their unhappy muggle world. Harry sees it as a world where he doesn't have to live with the Dursleys, Hermione sees it as a world where she is (mostly) normal. Compare that to Ron, for whom the magical world is completely normal and no one in his family knows any different, even his muggle obsessed father knows less about (for instance) camping than Hermione who went once when she was a little girl.

That strikes me as a deep common streak. Much more so than Hermione and Ron.

[Thanas]

Good point, I did not think of that. Yeah, I think they have a better foundation to build on.

[Elheru Aran]

On the other hand, Hermione would have given her eyeteeth to have grown up with a magic family like Ron's and not have to hide anything from her parents like she does...

What does she hide from her parents?

Mainly I'm thinking about the whole bit where she straight up wipes their memories and sends them out of the country. It can be inferred, though, that they definitely don't really understand her new magical life and are quite possibly uncomfortable with it. I don't remember exactly but I think she mentioned in one book that she doesn't talk to them about it or something along those lines. Normally I would think that they might want to know if she's hanging out at school with a kid who has a literal death mark on his head.... Either they're intimidated by the magic side of her life, or they're clueless about it. I will grant that 'hide' may have been too strong a word, it may simply be a situation where they don't talk about it at home beyond the "well hey I need to go into London and get some school supplies" or "how was your semester at school? make any friends?" "yes mum, it was very nice, learned some nice things" kinds of nonspecific conversation.

[FaxModem1]

I for one think it's a shame that people devalue Ron so much. There's a reason though that 'Ron the Death Eater' is a trope. It seems mostly due to people not seeing the appeal of the character, in that he's someone who is loyal, and brave when it comes to it. He just doesn't stand out as much.

[Ahriman238]

I for one think it's a shame that people devalue Ron so much. There's a reason though that 'Ron the Death Eater' is a trope. It seems mostly due to people not seeing the appeal of the character, in that he's someone who is loyal, and brave when it comes to it. He just doesn't stand out as much.

Ron thinks he has a second cousin that's an accountant, but they (his family) never talk about him. Kind of unfortunate implications in retrospect.

Anything aside from that? I mean, would we really describe Ron as "like Harry, only dumber?" Is Ron perhaps... bolder and more rash? Perhaps Rowling considers that kind of always-go-in-first attitude attractive in males. Ron has a large, basically well-adjusted family; maybe Rowling wishes she had a good crop of in-laws?

Alright let's look at this.

Ron and Harry are both essentially competent wizards, with a habit for taking the path of least resistance (like picking electives for easy grades) and goofing off together in class. Harry is an attention-starved orphan, in whom the sorting hat saw great ambition to prove himself. This desire is really never shown or mentioned again in seven books as Harry mostly tries to blend into the mass of students at Hogwarts. Ron has serious middle-child syndrome, with six older brothers who are all smart and talented, and a little sister his parents dote on. This likewise gives him a burning desire to surpass his siblings which... is likewise never shown or referenced again after the first book. It also gives him some deep-rooted insecurities that led to his falling-out with Harry in the fourth book, and were still alive enough in the seventh for the locket Horcrux to use against him.

Harry is a one-of-a-kind sports prodigy. Ron is similarly great at chess, and later joins the sports team and does alright for himself after conquering his performance anxiety.

In the first book Harry is roughly as useful as a Mr. Potato Head and Ron isn't much better, plus he was sort of an ass to Hermione which lead to her nearly dying. In the second we learn Ron has a crippling terror of spiders (after his brothers turned his teddy bear into one when he was a small child.) but after Hermione is petrified he still follows the spiders and braves the nest of giant spiders with Harry. The third book introduced conflict into the three main characters. First when Harry receives a sketchy expensive broom when someone is, you know, trying to kill him, and the boys are too busy geeking out over it to listen to Hermione, she goes behind their backs to the teachers who confiscate the broom and strip it down looking for booby-traps. Ron and Harry refuse to speak with or have anything to do with Hermione for weeks afterward. Then, after they make up, Ron and Hermione have a falling out when it seems her new cat ate his pet rat. Again this lasts for weeks with Harry trying to play peacekeeper.

Fourth book, Harry is picked as extra champion and Ron, who has spent his entire life to this point being ignored in favor of his more talented brothers, realizes that his best friend is talented and famous and has a fit of jealousy. They patch up again, but it took longer than any of the group fights so far. Four is also where Harry and Ron stumble into the idea of growing up to be Aurors. Book Five, Harry is all angry and screaming at the drop of a hat, particularly as Ron and Hermione went the summer not telling him everything they didn't know about what was going on. Sixth book everyone seized onto the idiot ball with both hands, and their hormones were acting up to. Harry is an idiot. So is Ron. So is Hermione. And forced, pointless character conflict/drama, there's tons of that. Seventh book they can at least agree who the bad guys are, and if Ron runs off to check on his family and is frustrated at doing nothing for months on end, I can't really hold that against him.

[Simon_Jester]

Well yeah, that's the biography, but I'm not quite sure how to translate that into personality differences that really address how the three interact.

[Tribble]

Well yeah, that's the biography, but I'm not quite sure how to translate that into personality differences that really address how the three interact.

The key difference between the three of them is that Ron is perhaps the most normal. He isn't a orphaned chosen boy like Harry, and he isn't a child prodigy like Hermione. He's a regular guy from a regular lower-middle income class family trying to do the best he can.

And that's precisely what makes Ron just as important as the other two. Hermione fought Voldemort because she knew that being a Muggle-born, she was a target. Harry battled Voldemort both because he was a target and because Voldemort murdered his family. Why did Ron fight Voldemort? Out of the three of them, he is the only one who could have literally walked away at any time, as Voldemort had nothing against him. All he had to do is keep his head down and he wouldn't be bothered at all. And yet despite this in the end he chose to fight simply because it was the right thing to do. He knew he wasn't the chosen one, he knew he wasn't anywhere near as talented as the others, and he knew that he could simply walk away, but in the end he decided to fight anyways! That kind of courage, I think, is what really sets him apart from the other two - out of the three of them, he is perhaps the only one who battles Voldemort purely by choice.

[Bedlam]

Well yeah, that's the biography, but I'm not quite sure how to translate that into personality differences that really address how the three interact.

The key difference between the three of them is that Ron is perhaps the most normal. He isn't a orphaned chosen boy like Harry, and he isn't a child prodigy like Hermione. He's a regular guy from a regular lower-middle income class family trying to do the best he can.

And that's precisely what makes Ron just as important as the other two. Hermione fought Voldemort because she knew that being a Muggle-born, she was a target. Harry battled Voldemort both because he was a target and because Voldemort murdered his family. Why did Ron fight Voldemort? Out of the three of them, he is the only one who could have literally walked away at any time, as Voldemort had nothing against him. All he had to do is keep his head down and he wouldn't be bothered at all. And yet despite this in the end he chose to fight simply because it was the right thing to do. He knew he wasn't the chosen one, he knew he wasn't anywhere near as talented as the others, and he knew that he could simply walk away, but in the end he decided to fight anyways! That kind of courage, I think, is what really sets him apart from the other two - out of the three of them, he is perhaps the only one who battles Voldemort purely by choice.

I would agree that Ron is the most normal but not necessarily that he could walk away, if I remember several of his uncles died during Voldemort's original reign and his parents and older siblings are almost all part of the resistance. Even if not hunted down outright, he's going to be on the death eaters list, his life would defiantly not be much fun.

[Batman]

Because he CHOSE to oppose Voldemort.. Unlike Hermione or Harry, who were targets pretty much from the word GO and had no way to change that, he could have bowed out early on, and arguably even later by going' Look, I know we had our differences, but we're both truebloods, so if I stop getting in your way, how about you stop trying to kill me?' The only reason Ron was a target was he opposed Voldemort.
No, the Ronald we saw in the novels couldn't walk away. But unlike Hermione or Harry, that was because his personality wouldn't let him, not because (like Harry and Hermione) he didn't have a choice. They are fighting for their lives no matter what, and have been from the word go. Ron could arguably have negotiated a reasonably comfortable living under Voldemort...but decided to fight the good fight anyway.

[Thanas]

No way. His father is on a death list and everybody from the death dealer side hates him. He was going to get targeted anyway.

Doesn't make him any less courageous but it is not as if he just could have walked away.