I enjoyed Pacific Rim as much as anyone, but I'm getting a touch tired of the fanboyism surrounding the film. So let's try this.
One day just before the film's main events everyone gets up and all the destroyed Jaegers are sitting in bays, restored to full fighting trim. All the dead pilots are resurrected. Then ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) manifests before the PPDC leaders and claims responsibility. He is willing to seal the breach, but first they need to entertain him by fending off some REAL Kaiju. He will ensure the Anteverse Kaiju keep out for the duration of the contest, and send his Kaiju in at three day intervals to provide some time to rest and repair battle damage. Oh, and they don't really have the option of not accepting, it just seemed more polite to phrase things that way.
Scenario 1.) The Toho Kaiju assault the Earth in the following order: Gezora, Anguirius, Rodan, Gigan, Mothra, Megalon, Battra, Gamera, Mechagodzilla, Destoroyah, King Ghidorah and the king himself, Godzilla.
Scenario 2.) ROB decides to let them off easy with just Clover, the Cloverfield monster.
Scenario 3.) Some of the fifteen Angels from Evangelion attack in numerical order. I say some because we start with the Third Angel as in the anime/manga.
Scenario 4.) The six Endbringers from Worm attack in their order of first appearance: Behemoth, Leviathan, Simurgh, Khonsu, ending with Bohu and Tohu. We'll assume for fairness' sake that the Simurgh is not coordinating the attacks. Assume Tohu has the masks of her first appearance: Legend, Eidolon, and Kazikli Bey (high-end wind manipulation.)
Scenario 5.) The Nine Bijuu of Naruto attack in ascending order of tails, so Shukaku, Matatabi, Isobu, Son Goku, Kokuo, Saiken, Chomei, Gyuuki and Kurama.
Scenario 6.) The dragons from Reign of Fire. Likely shouldn't count, but eh.
Scenario 7.) the Titans from Shingeki no Kyojin in ascending order of size and puissance, ending in the Colossal Titan.
Whom do you think the world of Pacific Rim can withstand? Who will punch out the silly mecha the quickest? And am I missing anyone important for this match-up?
Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
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Ahriman238
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Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Only going to comment on the ones I'm familiar with.
1. I think the Jaegers will be able to handle about half of that list. Due to sheer size and power, they'd get their asses handed to them by Godzilla / Mechagodzilla, Destoroyah and Gidorah. I don't think they'd be able to do much damage to Rodan but I don't think he can do much to them.
2. Curbstomp for the Jaegers. Cloverfield isn't really all that big compared to some of the Kaiju.
3. Depends on the angels. If I recall, some of them were just big humanoids...some were pure energy.
6. Individually, the dragons will be no match for the Jaegers. They're very small. As a large group, they might be able to swarm the bots and cut critical pieces of the suit.
1. I think the Jaegers will be able to handle about half of that list. Due to sheer size and power, they'd get their asses handed to them by Godzilla / Mechagodzilla, Destoroyah and Gidorah. I don't think they'd be able to do much damage to Rodan but I don't think he can do much to them.
2. Curbstomp for the Jaegers. Cloverfield isn't really all that big compared to some of the Kaiju.
3. Depends on the angels. If I recall, some of them were just big humanoids...some were pure energy.
6. Individually, the dragons will be no match for the Jaegers. They're very small. As a large group, they might be able to swarm the bots and cut critical pieces of the suit.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
NGE's angels would kill Jaegers, even the early humanoid ones. The reasons the EVAs can kill them is because they have AT fields to counter those of the angels. It took a ridiculous amount of fire power to pierce the AT field of the tetraherdon dude and I'm pretty sure the plasma guns on some of the Jaegars can match that. The PPDC may be able to nuke some of the angels to death. They resist N2 bombs but from what I've seen they're not more powerful than actual nuclear weapons so it could go either way.
The Titans in Shingeki no Kyojin would be an easy defeat for the Jaegers. The colossal titan is 60m tall while the Jaegers are around 80m. We've never seen the colossal titan do more than appear by the wall and kick in the gate in terms of movement. From that I would call the colossal titan less of a threat than the kaiju normally faced by the Jaegers. The time it takes figuring out that the weak point is the nape of the neck may mean the colossal could do more damage as it would keep regenerating.
The only way I see the smaller titans doing any harm is if they swarm a lone Jaeger and climb it to get the cockpit. We've never seen that kind of intelligent behavior or mobility from the standard titans though. Considering the size discrepancy between the 3-15m tall common titans and an 80m tall Jaeger I think they'd end up as stains on the Jaegaer's feet, if they get crushed the neck is crushed to and all.
The Titans in Shingeki no Kyojin would be an easy defeat for the Jaegers. The colossal titan is 60m tall while the Jaegers are around 80m. We've never seen the colossal titan do more than appear by the wall and kick in the gate in terms of movement. From that I would call the colossal titan less of a threat than the kaiju normally faced by the Jaegers. The time it takes figuring out that the weak point is the nape of the neck may mean the colossal could do more damage as it would keep regenerating.
The only way I see the smaller titans doing any harm is if they swarm a lone Jaeger and climb it to get the cockpit. We've never seen that kind of intelligent behavior or mobility from the standard titans though. Considering the size discrepancy between the 3-15m tall common titans and an 80m tall Jaeger I think they'd end up as stains on the Jaegaer's feet, if they get crushed the neck is crushed to and all.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Expanding a bit on the less familiar then.
The Endbringers are about puntable size to a Jaeger, with the obvious exception of Bohu none of them is taller than 50 ft. (15 m.) There are two things that keep this from being a curbstomp in favor of the Jaegers. First, Endbringers are insanely durable, they have no distinct organs, only a limitedly vulnerable "core" but their are composed of layers, the outer skin is as tough as aluminum alloy, and each deeper layer is a bit more than twice as durable as the last, going all the way to a neutronium like "skeleton" of about 15% their size, and they can move and fight just as effectively reduced to this state. Next, it's a superhero story, so naturally the Kaiju have themselves some gamebreaking powers.
Behemoth (AKA Hadhayoshi, Herokiller and Shitcrumb) is the subterranean one, looking a bit like an arch-typical devil made from stone with a single red eye. 45 feet tall. Behemoth has a number of energy manipulating powers, that number is all of them. He sets things on fire with a glance, throws around lightning bolts like they're free, one handclap produces a sonic wave that can flatten nearby buildings and kill everyone for hundreds of feet. He has kinetic energy powers that let him hit harder than he should be able to, and reduces any impacts he suffers. He can emit radiation for an extra "you're screwed" factor and slinging around large amounts of radioactive molten metal is his small way of lowering property values. Oh, and he can violate the Manton Effect that keeps capes from manifesting strange energies inside another person's body within a 30' radius or so meaning if you get within that range and he's not distracted, you're dead. Well, the first rule of supers fighting Shitcrumb (may change for giant mecha) is that if he sees you, you're dead.
Leviathan has a crude control over water in that he can't do a lot of delicate things with it. What he can do is control it on a mass scale, enough to drown a small nation. 30 feet tall, vaguely humanoid with a disturbing number and arrangement of eyes and a tail, plus long sharp claws. In the water, whether swimming or wading, Leviathan is fast. Faster than any speedster in the Wormverse. He constantly generates or attracts water around him, so his every movement creates a small wave and if he charges you and stops suddenly you get creamed by a wave at highway speeds. When Leviathan attacks waves start hitting every twenty minutes or so, growing lager and coming faster the longer he remains on the scene and alive. Previous accomplishments include the drowning of Newfoundland and a third of Japan.
The Simurgh (or Ziz) is an angelic looking woman, 15 feet tall white as the snow, with about a million wings growing from every joint or flat plane on her body. The Simurgh is existentially terrifying in ways the others are not. She has three powers. First, she is a telekinetic of breathtaking power and finesse. In her first appearance in the series she created a flawless duplicate from plaster dust and was able to maintain and move it from across a city. She is often surrounded by a halo of makeshift cannon and debris she can use as ammo or assemble into a few different devices. She can also break every bone in your body and make each fly out of your flesh. Second, she is a precog of the first order, and normally picks the targets of the others. Third, everyone for a considerable distance around the Simurgh hears music which cannot be blocked out. A few hours of this turns most people into rioting rage-zombies. But the survivors? The people who make it through? Yeah, they're all Manchurian Candidates, not sure if it's mind control or just setting up the dominoes, but everyone exposed to the Simurgh's song for over an hour or so goes on to make the world a worse place in some way. Some just go postal, others pick up weird obsessions that lead them to build superweapons or conceal the murders of a nascent monster, some assassinate world leaders. But everyone, at some point, does something to hurt cooperation between people, cause massive casualties or tear apart the social order. Exactly as planned.
Khonsu was the first to come after an Endbrnger died. He's 50 feet tall, looks like a black and white feral Buddha crossed with a cat-fish. Khonsu has powers over space and time, a global range teleport he uses to bail out whenever he doesn't like how a fight is going. He can control three white discs that play along the ground, each is a field of accelerated time, not sure of the precise ration, but anything trapped inside spends at least a subjective year in an instant. He uses this on himself sometimes to heal rapidly, from an objective standpoint. Khonsu is also even tougher than his predecessors, with forcefields interpenetrating each layer. It's unclear if the other two later Endbringers have this.
Tohu and Bohu work as a pair. Bohu is tall, 1300 ft. (about 394 m.) though mostly stationary. She's an urbankinetic, able to reshape a city, every few minutes she can make spikes grow out of the walls, ceilings and floors or streets in an instant. She slowly compacts each space, shrinking streets and rooms. raising walls to turn a town into a death-maze under her control. Then come the pits, and the more complex mechanical traps, then she starts over redesigning the whole thing on the fly. Tohu is only twice the size of a person, with three faces and six arms. She protects Bohu and copies the powers of the three strongest superheroes in the area. In this case flight, lasers that can fire twist around corners in mid-air, spam hundreds in an instant and at full-power can level a city block, and control over hurricane-force winds. Eidolon's power is a whole different level of unfair, he literally has the power to pull new powers out his ass as needed, so let's discount that one.
The Bijuu, or Tailed Beasts are the fragmented essence of a vengeful Elder God, who used to be a tree. It's kind of a long story. They're energy beings composed purely of the local magic energy "chakra" but they seem solid enough for most purposes, they effect the world, they're injured by or visibly react to strong enough impacts. Still, they're a bit more flexible than proper matter has a right to be, they can stretch and distort themselves to an extent. They seem to be able to alter their size too, as their scaling can be pretty damned inconsistent. One power they all have in common is the bijuudama, where they form a big black energy ball which can explode with at least the force of a small nuke. Sometimes they eat the bijuudama and detonate it in their mouths to spit all that energy out as a laser or quicker but weaker energy bolts.
Much of the series' plot revolves around their unusual way of dealing with the Bijuu, sealing away the powerful Kaiju. Good. Sealing them inside people, sort of good with a lot of bad. Most of these people develop special powers relating to their tenant, presumably these reflect powers actually available to the Bijuu but the only confirmed one I can think of is Garra/Shukaku who definitely have a common power to control sand.
For a Bijuudama baseline.
And here's six of the Bijuu under the main villain's control battling the two "free" (well, still sealed into people) ones. Eventually. With a flashback and a lot of dialogue thrown in for good measure.
Seriously, Naruto has every anime vice and cliché that drives me up a wall. I have no way of explaining why I enjoy it so much anyway, except to say that I love stories that don't shy away from the idea that the world is a terrible place but don't think they're clever for pointing that out and never imply that you should just give up.
The Endbringers are about puntable size to a Jaeger, with the obvious exception of Bohu none of them is taller than 50 ft. (15 m.) There are two things that keep this from being a curbstomp in favor of the Jaegers. First, Endbringers are insanely durable, they have no distinct organs, only a limitedly vulnerable "core" but their are composed of layers, the outer skin is as tough as aluminum alloy, and each deeper layer is a bit more than twice as durable as the last, going all the way to a neutronium like "skeleton" of about 15% their size, and they can move and fight just as effectively reduced to this state. Next, it's a superhero story, so naturally the Kaiju have themselves some gamebreaking powers.
Behemoth (AKA Hadhayoshi, Herokiller and Shitcrumb) is the subterranean one, looking a bit like an arch-typical devil made from stone with a single red eye. 45 feet tall. Behemoth has a number of energy manipulating powers, that number is all of them. He sets things on fire with a glance, throws around lightning bolts like they're free, one handclap produces a sonic wave that can flatten nearby buildings and kill everyone for hundreds of feet. He has kinetic energy powers that let him hit harder than he should be able to, and reduces any impacts he suffers. He can emit radiation for an extra "you're screwed" factor and slinging around large amounts of radioactive molten metal is his small way of lowering property values. Oh, and he can violate the Manton Effect that keeps capes from manifesting strange energies inside another person's body within a 30' radius or so meaning if you get within that range and he's not distracted, you're dead. Well, the first rule of supers fighting Shitcrumb (may change for giant mecha) is that if he sees you, you're dead.
Leviathan has a crude control over water in that he can't do a lot of delicate things with it. What he can do is control it on a mass scale, enough to drown a small nation. 30 feet tall, vaguely humanoid with a disturbing number and arrangement of eyes and a tail, plus long sharp claws. In the water, whether swimming or wading, Leviathan is fast. Faster than any speedster in the Wormverse. He constantly generates or attracts water around him, so his every movement creates a small wave and if he charges you and stops suddenly you get creamed by a wave at highway speeds. When Leviathan attacks waves start hitting every twenty minutes or so, growing lager and coming faster the longer he remains on the scene and alive. Previous accomplishments include the drowning of Newfoundland and a third of Japan.
The Simurgh (or Ziz) is an angelic looking woman, 15 feet tall white as the snow, with about a million wings growing from every joint or flat plane on her body. The Simurgh is existentially terrifying in ways the others are not. She has three powers. First, she is a telekinetic of breathtaking power and finesse. In her first appearance in the series she created a flawless duplicate from plaster dust and was able to maintain and move it from across a city. She is often surrounded by a halo of makeshift cannon and debris she can use as ammo or assemble into a few different devices. She can also break every bone in your body and make each fly out of your flesh. Second, she is a precog of the first order, and normally picks the targets of the others. Third, everyone for a considerable distance around the Simurgh hears music which cannot be blocked out. A few hours of this turns most people into rioting rage-zombies. But the survivors? The people who make it through? Yeah, they're all Manchurian Candidates, not sure if it's mind control or just setting up the dominoes, but everyone exposed to the Simurgh's song for over an hour or so goes on to make the world a worse place in some way. Some just go postal, others pick up weird obsessions that lead them to build superweapons or conceal the murders of a nascent monster, some assassinate world leaders. But everyone, at some point, does something to hurt cooperation between people, cause massive casualties or tear apart the social order. Exactly as planned.
Khonsu was the first to come after an Endbrnger died. He's 50 feet tall, looks like a black and white feral Buddha crossed with a cat-fish. Khonsu has powers over space and time, a global range teleport he uses to bail out whenever he doesn't like how a fight is going. He can control three white discs that play along the ground, each is a field of accelerated time, not sure of the precise ration, but anything trapped inside spends at least a subjective year in an instant. He uses this on himself sometimes to heal rapidly, from an objective standpoint. Khonsu is also even tougher than his predecessors, with forcefields interpenetrating each layer. It's unclear if the other two later Endbringers have this.
Tohu and Bohu work as a pair. Bohu is tall, 1300 ft. (about 394 m.) though mostly stationary. She's an urbankinetic, able to reshape a city, every few minutes she can make spikes grow out of the walls, ceilings and floors or streets in an instant. She slowly compacts each space, shrinking streets and rooms. raising walls to turn a town into a death-maze under her control. Then come the pits, and the more complex mechanical traps, then she starts over redesigning the whole thing on the fly. Tohu is only twice the size of a person, with three faces and six arms. She protects Bohu and copies the powers of the three strongest superheroes in the area. In this case flight, lasers that can fire twist around corners in mid-air, spam hundreds in an instant and at full-power can level a city block, and control over hurricane-force winds. Eidolon's power is a whole different level of unfair, he literally has the power to pull new powers out his ass as needed, so let's discount that one.
The Bijuu, or Tailed Beasts are the fragmented essence of a vengeful Elder God, who used to be a tree. It's kind of a long story. They're energy beings composed purely of the local magic energy "chakra" but they seem solid enough for most purposes, they effect the world, they're injured by or visibly react to strong enough impacts. Still, they're a bit more flexible than proper matter has a right to be, they can stretch and distort themselves to an extent. They seem to be able to alter their size too, as their scaling can be pretty damned inconsistent. One power they all have in common is the bijuudama, where they form a big black energy ball which can explode with at least the force of a small nuke. Sometimes they eat the bijuudama and detonate it in their mouths to spit all that energy out as a laser or quicker but weaker energy bolts.
Much of the series' plot revolves around their unusual way of dealing with the Bijuu, sealing away the powerful Kaiju. Good. Sealing them inside people, sort of good with a lot of bad. Most of these people develop special powers relating to their tenant, presumably these reflect powers actually available to the Bijuu but the only confirmed one I can think of is Garra/Shukaku who definitely have a common power to control sand.
For a Bijuudama baseline.
And here's six of the Bijuu under the main villain's control battling the two "free" (well, still sealed into people) ones. Eventually. With a flashback and a lot of dialogue thrown in for good measure.
Seriously, Naruto has every anime vice and cliché that drives me up a wall. I have no way of explaining why I enjoy it so much anyway, except to say that I love stories that don't shy away from the idea that the world is a terrible place but don't think they're clever for pointing that out and never imply that you should just give up.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
The Titans from Attack on Titan are a nonissue. The Colossal Titan comes about up to Gipsy Danger's shoulders.
Jaegers can just step on the ordinary ones, and they'd be killed by modern conventional weapons as soon as anyone realises where to attack to stop them regenerating.
Jaegers can just step on the ordinary ones, and they'd be killed by modern conventional weapons as soon as anyone realises where to attack to stop them regenerating.
Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
I'm surprised Stay Puft Marshmallow Man isn't on the list. Then again, he isn't that tall compared to the Jaegers.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
The Angels are out of the Jaeger's league. One is some sort of infec tious fungus, one is a transdimensional Shadow and another one is a computer virus for example. How are they supposed to deal with those?
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
The Toho Kaiju are a mix, if only because there's often two or more different versions of the same character out there, but there is a way to work around it. All the Kaiju and Jaegers were designed to be, well, able to be done as men in suits as well. So, with that in mind, we can work on how to make these monsters 'equal' to the Jaegers. So, how would that work.
Gezora - Gezorah is small enough to be portrayed by a little person in the suit and is resoundingly stomped. Classified Category II Kaiju.
Anguirus - the Anguirus suit is actually longer/bigger than the Godzilla suit, and the Godzilla suit is bigger than the average "Ultraman" suit (which is basically what a Jeager would be like). Easily a Category IV Kaiju, but beatable. Until it burrows underground to escape.
Rodan - Jaegers have no real way to deal with the Hypersonic Samurai, and would be destabalized easily by his slipstream. Category IV
And after that, they really don't stand a chance against any of these classic Kaiju.
Gezora - Gezorah is small enough to be portrayed by a little person in the suit and is resoundingly stomped. Classified Category II Kaiju.
Anguirus - the Anguirus suit is actually longer/bigger than the Godzilla suit, and the Godzilla suit is bigger than the average "Ultraman" suit (which is basically what a Jeager would be like). Easily a Category IV Kaiju, but beatable. Until it burrows underground to escape.
Rodan - Jaegers have no real way to deal with the Hypersonic Samurai, and would be destabalized easily by his slipstream. Category IV
And after that, they really don't stand a chance against any of these classic Kaiju.
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Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
I think the Jaegers are in even worse shape if it's Fire Rodan. All the Jaegers are pretty screwed against any of the Toho Kaiju that have any sort of breathe weapon but I think any kind of radioactive heat beam would be the worst for them to deal with. Godzilla would be a terrible matchup for any of the nuclear powered Jaegers. The face screen on Gipsy, and for that mater the head in general, would be a very vulnerable spot, and then Godzilla is just lunching on the reactors.Majin Gojira wrote: Rodan - Jaegers have no real way to deal with the Hypersonic Samurai, and would be destabalized easily by his slipstream. Category IV
And after that, they really don't stand a chance against any of these classic Kaiju.
Going by the movie I don't think there had been any flying Kaiju until Otachi so it didn't appear that the Jaegers were really designed to deal with flying threats and that would be a problem with a lot of the flying Toho Kaiju, at least the ones that fly and have ranged attacks. There might be some interesting battles against some of the more grounded older style Kaiju but I think most of them would be tough enough to take out most of the Jaegers the majority of the time.
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Ahriman238
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Stay Puft wanders around a bit, climbs a tower and explodes. Not exactly a great baseline for capabilities. I didn't include Kong for similar reasons, he climbs a building, gets strafed by planes, and dies.Enigma wrote:I'm surprised Stay Puft Marshmallow Man isn't on the list. Then again, he isn't that tall compared to the Jaegers.
I genuinely considered saying "all the monsters from the first season of Mighty Morphing Power Rangers in order of appearance." I then realized I couldn't find any sort of list of them in two minutes with google, and remembered how silly some of them were. If you can find such a list, knock yourself out.FaxModem1 wrote:No Power Rangers monsters?
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
The thing with the Jaegers from "Pacific Rim" is that they are Freaking HUGE! But that is about it…
In the movies effort to make a "Realistic" Giant robot vs Giant Monster movie… They created Giant Robots that are considered wussies by most things in Anime.
Look at the Kaiju from the movie…
A while ago I had this thread in reverse, I asked "Pick Anime giant robots to go up against the Kaiju of Pacific Rim"
Well, the consensus was that there are few anime giant robots that COULDN"T kick the crap out of most of those monsters…
In order for the Jaegers to stand up to even the lesser monsters of Toho, they would need a MASSIVE Power upgrade…
Better weapons, shields, strength, speed, SOMETHING!
In the movies effort to make a "Realistic" Giant robot vs Giant Monster movie… They created Giant Robots that are considered wussies by most things in Anime.
Look at the Kaiju from the movie…
A while ago I had this thread in reverse, I asked "Pick Anime giant robots to go up against the Kaiju of Pacific Rim"
Well, the consensus was that there are few anime giant robots that COULDN"T kick the crap out of most of those monsters…
In order for the Jaegers to stand up to even the lesser monsters of Toho, they would need a MASSIVE Power upgrade…
Better weapons, shields, strength, speed, SOMETHING!
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Forgothrax
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
As far as the Worm Endbringers...
The problem with most of them is not that they are impressive bruisers, but that each one has a hax capability that makes them difficult to match. Behemoth is kill-able, if difficult, but if he can close to the distance at which he can overcome the Manton effect he wins. The Simurgh is, thanks to her precog and TK, basically untouchable. Leviathin is probably the easiest of the original three; he's the one most likely to get into a physical confrontation, and that will be on the Jaeger's terms, not his, superspeed or no. I doubt his water/waves will really bother the robots.
Khonsu is difficult because his timewarp field is just as effective against the Jaegers and their pilots as against superpowered beings. Tohu and Bohu, on the other hand, shouldn't be too bad; Bohu is pretty much stationary, while Tohu isn't that physically tough and is tied down by the need to protect Bohu.
In summary, the Jaegers probably take down Leviathin, Tohu, and Bohu fairly easily; could go either way against Behemoth; probably lose against Khonsu; and failhard against the Simurgh.
The problem with most of them is not that they are impressive bruisers, but that each one has a hax capability that makes them difficult to match. Behemoth is kill-able, if difficult, but if he can close to the distance at which he can overcome the Manton effect he wins. The Simurgh is, thanks to her precog and TK, basically untouchable. Leviathin is probably the easiest of the original three; he's the one most likely to get into a physical confrontation, and that will be on the Jaeger's terms, not his, superspeed or no. I doubt his water/waves will really bother the robots.
Khonsu is difficult because his timewarp field is just as effective against the Jaegers and their pilots as against superpowered beings. Tohu and Bohu, on the other hand, shouldn't be too bad; Bohu is pretty much stationary, while Tohu isn't that physically tough and is tied down by the need to protect Bohu.
In summary, the Jaegers probably take down Leviathin, Tohu, and Bohu fairly easily; could go either way against Behemoth; probably lose against Khonsu; and failhard against the Simurgh.
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
I think we may be underestimating the defensive capabilities of the Jaegers, as they do seem like Glass Cannons most of the time, but there are a few feats to note. There's the "Re-entry fall" of Gypsy Danger for blunt durability. How to quantify that, I really don't know.
Then there's the close poximity to the 1.2 megaton bomb. Obviously, they were not at ground zero for that blast, and avoided the fireball which burned up Striker Eureka, a Category 4 Kaiju and did a number of Slantern. Based on the Nukemap, they were likely about a mile away from the device when it went off as they basically only had to deal with the pressure wave. They held on, they survived the radiation and the Jeager took no visible damage from it. At least, nothing significant that I remember.
But Kaiju claws and jaws still tear through them like paper mache. And then there's that acid.
Now consider that on the official ratings system Gispy Danger rates only a 6/10 for Armor. Same as Crimson Typhoon. Cherno Alpha? 10. Striker Eureka? 9.
Another thing to consider is that the nuclear arms of the US range from 100-300 Kilotons most of the time, and they were likely the ones used against Category 1 through 3 (?) Kaiju before the Jaegers were being deployed.
I cannot for the life of me find the quantification done on Godzilla's heat beam(s). Each one is at a different overall strength, we got a beam capable of making Type 61 Tank go red hot (that's 55-114mm armor) to . . . Final Wars Godzilla, which probably could level a city in a single blast.
But I'm crap at quantifying such things.
Then there's the close poximity to the 1.2 megaton bomb. Obviously, they were not at ground zero for that blast, and avoided the fireball which burned up Striker Eureka, a Category 4 Kaiju and did a number of Slantern. Based on the Nukemap, they were likely about a mile away from the device when it went off as they basically only had to deal with the pressure wave. They held on, they survived the radiation and the Jeager took no visible damage from it. At least, nothing significant that I remember.
But Kaiju claws and jaws still tear through them like paper mache. And then there's that acid.
Now consider that on the official ratings system Gispy Danger rates only a 6/10 for Armor. Same as Crimson Typhoon. Cherno Alpha? 10. Striker Eureka? 9.
Another thing to consider is that the nuclear arms of the US range from 100-300 Kilotons most of the time, and they were likely the ones used against Category 1 through 3 (?) Kaiju before the Jaegers were being deployed.
I cannot for the life of me find the quantification done on Godzilla's heat beam(s). Each one is at a different overall strength, we got a beam capable of making Type 61 Tank go red hot (that's 55-114mm armor) to . . . Final Wars Godzilla, which probably could level a city in a single blast.
But I'm crap at quantifying such things.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Bringing in nukes is a moot point when it comes to Godzilla - he can not only tank them, he actually rejuvenates and increases in power if one explodes near him, see Godzilla 1985. Also, the Jaegers have a glaring weak spot in that they're piloted from within and several of them have their cockpit in the head. The JSDF during the millenium series knew better and piloted their giant mecha, Kiryu, from afar per remote control. Godzilla has won a battle by attacking the head before, see the fate of the first Mechagodzilla. He might try again if a Jaeger proves to be stubborn.
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
I wasn't talking about using Nukes in Godzilla, I was talking about determining the durability of Jaegers through the nuke incident.
And each Godzilla is it's own unique best with different abilities (the regeneration rate differs vastly among iterations, some have more than one way to project nuclear energy, etc). Using these references universally does us no good.
And each Godzilla is it's own unique best with different abilities (the regeneration rate differs vastly among iterations, some have more than one way to project nuclear energy, etc). Using these references universally does us no good.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
And my point is that regardless of how little a nuke affects a Jaeger (of course, the one standing closer to it was completely pulverized so there's that), Big G is even more durable.Majin Gojira wrote:I wasn't talking about using Nukes in Godzilla, I was talking about determining the durability of Jaegers through the nuke incident.
The OP didn't specify which Godzilla, but his resistance to nukes crosses generations, he was created by a nuke after all. Nope, the Jaegers won't faze him with their piddly mecha-fu. I think they won't even reach him since King Ghidora, who at many points was portrayed as stronger than Godzilla (as in Godzilla needed help to defeat him in several battles) will already obliterate them with his graviton beam spam. The Jaeger's just aren't made for ranged combat. If King Ghidora flies up and rains his beams on them from above, what are they going to do?And each Godzilla is it's own unique best with different abilities (the regeneration rate differs vastly among iterations, some have more than one way to project nuclear energy, etc). Using these references universally does us no good.
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Alright, let's do this.
Godzilla has not been hit with nukes that often. They talk about it quite a bit as an option in some works, but there are only TWO incidents which involve actual nukes.
Once, of course, in Godzilla 1985. Depending on which version you watch it's either one Soviet missile air bursting, or two nukes air bursting over Tokyo. The blast was evidently high enough in the air to not even create gusts of wind on the ground, or even damage the tops of buildings. All it did was irradiate the area, which Godzilla absorbed and used to revive himself. This Godzilla had the durability to survive for years inside the burning heart of a volcano, trapped only by the sheerness of the walls.
The second instance comes from the IDW Comic series Godzilla: Kingdom of Monsters #1 where Godzilla is hit with a nuke in the middle of the ocean, point blank, and takes in the energy which allows him to breathe fire.
There's also the Final Wars City Leveling meteor thing which, while not a nuke, is easily in the same power range. Didn't even knock that Godzilla off his feet, similarly to the IDW example.
There's also the Marc Cerasini novel Godzilla Returns where nukes are discussed as an option for dealing with Godzilla, but while the heat and energy release was agreed to be possible to deal with him (I lost my copy so I can't specify what tonnage would be needed), the other effects of the Nuke (radiation and Godzilla's feeding on it) ruled out the option.
Finally, and this is important, that wasn't the point of the post at all. It was to find out just how much a Jaeger could tank and then compare it to the average energy ray of a Toho Kaiju such as Godzilla.
You're arguing something that I wasn't even talking about originally!
Godzilla has not been hit with nukes that often. They talk about it quite a bit as an option in some works, but there are only TWO incidents which involve actual nukes.
Once, of course, in Godzilla 1985. Depending on which version you watch it's either one Soviet missile air bursting, or two nukes air bursting over Tokyo. The blast was evidently high enough in the air to not even create gusts of wind on the ground, or even damage the tops of buildings. All it did was irradiate the area, which Godzilla absorbed and used to revive himself. This Godzilla had the durability to survive for years inside the burning heart of a volcano, trapped only by the sheerness of the walls.
The second instance comes from the IDW Comic series Godzilla: Kingdom of Monsters #1 where Godzilla is hit with a nuke in the middle of the ocean, point blank, and takes in the energy which allows him to breathe fire.
There's also the Final Wars City Leveling meteor thing which, while not a nuke, is easily in the same power range. Didn't even knock that Godzilla off his feet, similarly to the IDW example.
There's also the Marc Cerasini novel Godzilla Returns where nukes are discussed as an option for dealing with Godzilla, but while the heat and energy release was agreed to be possible to deal with him (I lost my copy so I can't specify what tonnage would be needed), the other effects of the Nuke (radiation and Godzilla's feeding on it) ruled out the option.
Finally, and this is important, that wasn't the point of the post at all. It was to find out just how much a Jaeger could tank and then compare it to the average energy ray of a Toho Kaiju such as Godzilla.
You're arguing something that I wasn't even talking about originally!
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Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Pacific Rim is rather schizophrenic when it comes to that. Slattern survives a nuke in the face almost unscratched but is easily cut by Striker Eureka's blades to the point were some of his arms almost come off. I don't really believe Striker hits harder than a nuke so I think that scene really isn't all that informative as to what Jaeger's and Kaiju can take.;Majin Gojira wrote:Finally, and this is important, that wasn't the point of the post at all. It was to find out just how much a Jaeger could tank and then compare it to the average energy ray of a Toho Kaiju such as Godzilla.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Or it shows that their hides are more geared towards certain types of impacts over others rather than a uniform effect. Sort of how like the heat shielding of the Space Shuttle can be pierced by a human being with a pencil.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."
Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.
"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
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Lord Revan
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
or like modern Kevlar vest can take a hit from a bullet but not a knife.Majin Gojira wrote:Or it shows that their hides are more geared towards certain types of impacts over others rather than a uniform effect. Sort of how like the heat shielding of the Space Shuttle can be pierced by a human being with a pencil.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Except of course that a nuke expends both heat and shockwave AKA kinetic energy and Gypsy Danger first burns Skunner and later Slattern just fine, the latter even fatally and punching kaiju is an accepted and effective form of fighting them. It's just bad and inconsistent writing,
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
well depending on the yield of the nuke and the range it was used from a slash or punch from a Jaeger might be more intensive blow then a shockwave simply cause a shockwave spreads while a fist or a blade has it's energy focused on a lot smaller area.Metahive wrote:Except of course that a nuke expends both heat and shockwave AKA kinetic energy and Gypsy Danger first burns Skunner and later Slattern just fine, the latter even fatally and punching kaiju is an accepted and effective form of fighting them. It's just bad and inconsistent writing,
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Shockwaves work on the inverse square law, right? So it wouldn't take very long at all before even the largest explosion had diffused enough that a giant atomic rocket-powered robot punch could cause more damage in a given area.
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Re: Kings of the Kaiju RAR!
Resisting a point blank nuclear strike requires hardening against very high blast overpressures- thosuands of pounds per square inch. Real life structures designed for this are usually made of huge plates of steel or slabs of heavily reinforced concrete, which would also tend to resist most kinds of cutting blades we can easily envision. Certainly they'd resist a blunt-force impact.
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