Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

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madd0ct0r
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

He lost the first two. Better break that streak boy!
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by LaCroix »

The first two don't count - in universe, only the third time counts... If you manage to win the third encounter, the spoils go your way...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

The Birds
gif
William Blake (from the later poems in the Rossetti manuscript, written ca. 1800 - 1810, published by Dante Gabriel Rossetti, 1863)
clr gif

He. Where thou dwellest, in what grove,
Tell me Fair One, tell me Love;
Where thou thy charming nest dost build,
O thou pride of every field!

She. Yonder stands a lonely tree,
There I live and mourn for thee;
Morning drinks my silent tear,
And evening winds my sorrow bear.

He. O thou summer’s harmony,
I have liv’d and mourn’d for thee;
Each day I mourn along the wood,
And night hath heard my sorrows loud.

She. Dost thou truly long for me?
And am I thus sweet to thee?
Sorrow now is at an end,
O my Lover and my Friend!

He. Come, on wings of joy we’ll fly
To where my bower hangs on high;
Come, and make thy calm retreat,
Among green leaves and blossoms sweet.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Spekio »

Spoiler
So, if Blake is the vestige, how much of his story is Rose's? Was she raped? Did she live in Toronto? She said she was friendless.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

Spekio wrote:Spoiler
So, if Blake is the vestige, how much of his story is Rose's? Was she raped? Did she live in Toronto? She said she was friendless.
Spoiler
I'd say definitely not, probably not (unless she went to college there), and she was until Grandma fixed that, too.

I think most of Blake's traits were the opposite of hers' by default, except where tampered with intentionally to put him on the defensive, in which case they mostly stem from exaggerations of her own experiences (lost three times instead of once as a child, parents were psycho to him more than on his behalf) or stuff that's just made-up outright (raped by a cult leader, because why the fuck not, right?). It was the easy way to do it, given the whole mirror thing, and it makes sense based on what we see: Blake and Rose are opposites everywhere it's not really important to making Blake a wounded bird who doesn't trust charismatic groupthink. Studious / Not Studious. Hygiene Freak / Wears Same Pajamas for Three Days. Impulsive / Meticulous. Tattoo Person / Non-Tattoo Person, etc.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Alkaloid »

It's not so much that the first two don't count, just that a third victory has more symbolic significance/power. But yeah. Losing a third time would be very bad.
Spoiler
are we sure Blake's a vestige made from a reflection though? Grandma Rose may have made him, but she didn't do it from a reflection of Rose, otherwise he'd be a southpaw, like Zoey pointed out.

It looks more like she planned out what sort of person she needed him to be and the universe created his life for him. He has to have trouble connecting to people, so he had a shitty life and as a result trusts very few people, has issues touching them. Few connection to family, so he ran away from home. But at the same time he needs to be able to function, so he has to have a connection to Alexis. He needs to still maintain some connection to his family, so he has some affection for his cousins. He gets a story to explain why he is the way he is but she can't control the specifics of it.

My friend also has the theory that Rose is actually old grandma Rose, and that this while thing was worked out beforehand with old man Behaim, which seems unlikely but possible.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

Spoiler
what happened to old rose's familiar?
I'm still convinced the solution lies with the poetry of blake.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

madd0ct0r wrote:Spoiler
what happened to old rose's familiar?
It died when she did.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Alkaloid »

Spoiler
kind of out there, but odds on Blake becoming Mags familiar?
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

Alkaloid wrote:Spoiler
kind of out there, but odds on Blake becoming Mags familiar?
I wouldn't consider it likely or rule it out. I picture Mags taking on a Familiar with whom she has a love/hate relationship, and which also reinforces her one very solid connection (Goblin Queen), eg: Buttsack. They could conspire together and devise extremely mean things to do to people who deserve it...

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

I don't know. they don't click the way the other examples we've seen have. Mags was considering Padraic at one point, I think the part of her that don't like goblins much might prefer something to other end of the spectrum. Something simple and direct and above all loyal.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by LaCroix »

Mags has bound herself to the town with that ritual. I can't see Blake limiting himself to this, which he would as her familiar.

Also, Blake isn't one for filling the supporting role. He's a leader.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

I do archery skeet. With a Trebuchet.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

That escalated quickly...

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

it does seem gratuitous overkill on Mag's behalf.
the "sorry blake" throwaway line is a good hint that Alkaloid may have been on the right track. Can't track down the fucking iaiah anywhere. At the moment I think it's a hindu temple gaurdian or something Afrikaans.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Spekio »

So Rose Sr. did the vestige trick before, it seems.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

eh, what did you get that from?
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Spekio »

The ghost saying she was not the first pick for heir.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

Hmm. Blake has no memory of it and it's not come up before. Seems pretty unlikely the first heir could also have gone to Toronto and picked a fight with Ur, especially as something would be needed for Molly to remember it.

On the other hand Old Rose did some funky stuff with connections to make Blake - do you think he's been the heir before?
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Spekio »

It was not the fight with Ur that brought Rose forward. Remember the Sphinx saying that once Blake died Rose would take his place? Blake got lucky he got his connections cut.

Molly had her own Blake. Rose was not the special one with a safeguard.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

does take his place imply completely rewriting everyone's connections and memory though? I thought that was the universe patching up the blake shaped hole Ur left?
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Alkaloid »

I was assuming that Molly was set up as a buffer for Rose as well, and that Rose wasvalwsys the first choice.

it does seem gratuitous overkill on Mag's behalf.
the "sorry blake" throwaway line is a good hint that Alkaloid may have been on the right track.
Since his discussion with Faysl that seems much less likely. It's not exactly clear what Blake is/could be, but 'starving giant desperate for sustenance' is a strange choice of words.
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by madd0ct0r »

I've been thinking of the Wicker Man. There's plenty of precedent for bundles of twigs to be animated with sufficient blood/spirits. There's also a william blake poem that talks about living trees, one of whom may be a rose, and a little child that may be evan:
Love and harmony combine,
And round our souls entwine
While thy branches mix with mine,
And our roots together join.

Joys upon our branches sit,
Chirping loud and singing sweet;
Like gentle streams beneath our feet,
Innocence and virtue meet.

Thou the golden fruit dost bear,
I am clad in flowers fair;
Thy sweet boughs perfume the air,
And the turtle buildeth there.

There she sits and feeds her young,
Sweet I hear her mournful song;
And thy lovely leaves among,
There is love, I hear his tongue.

There his charming nest doth lay,
There he sleeps the night away;
There he sports along the day,
And doth among our branches play.
— Love And Harmony, by William Blake.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

Yeah, I think you're on to something there with the Blake references.

Idle Speculation: If Padraic gets to run around being Maggie Holt for a long time, does that mean that the Wormverse's Maggie Holt novels are really about his wacky adventures in Toronto?

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Ahriman238 »

Still catching up, have to read on and off because of my schedule. Just finished arc 7 Void and damn you Wildbow! I thought you were leaving the killer cliffhangers behind!
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Re: Wildbow's Pact- discussion thread

Post by Raw Shark »

Idle Speculation: 2.X: Gathered Pages 2: Implements:

The Coin:

Declarative: The Coin is a study in contrasts and versatility, flashy yet easily concealed, not out-of-place in the modern world and yet frequently selected from a vintage that blatantly is out of place in the modern world, for an easy contrast between the practice and normal life, or not, as the coin in question determines. The Coin as Implement declares an intention to trade, fairly or otherwise, and lends its power effortlessly to any working that involves a willing (and even moreso if even) exchange with a sapient entity.

Authoritative: The Coin is part Talisman, part Coffer. It represents antiquity, prestige, wealth, and posterity, and will often acquire connections to those things near-effortlessly on the part of the wielder when displayed and fed power. As money well-invested tends to grow, so does power invested in the Coin over the long term, but it is of little use in channeling power invested briefly. The Coin tends to breed connections more than it severs them, and is not particularly adept at doing so in any form.

Socio-Cultural: The Coin is used on an extremely cosmopolitan basis, nearly everywhere above stone-age technology in some form. Current estimates put it at roughly 7% for all of Western culture, and 4% for all of Eastern culture as a whole (but about 11% of Westernized Eastern practitioners, especially in China, Japan, and Malaysia) with a slight lean toward male over female in the demographics. There is also an especially-high trend toward the Coin as Implement for practitioners who tend to do no workings other than that which enriches themselves materially, as some might predict.

"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
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