The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (spoliers!)

[Ted C]

As I recall, the White Council moved against the Necromancer without really knowing who it was. Gandalf suspected it was Sauron, Saruman disagreed, but they eventually decided that the Necromancer needed to go, whoever he was. The Necromancer's identity was revealed during the struggle. All of this happened "off screen" of course, so the details are sketchy (although there may be more info in Appendix-type material).

[Tiriol]

As I recall, the White Council moved against the Necromancer without really knowing who it was. Gandalf suspected it was Sauron, Saruman disagreed, but they eventually decided that the Necromancer needed to go, whoever he was. The Necromancer's identity was revealed during the struggle. All of this happened "off screen" of course, so the details are sketchy (although there may be more info in Appendix-type material).

As far as I remember, the White Council knew already that the Necromancer was Sauron before they attacked him. Gandalf also knew that he was Sauron, because he was so concerned about the possibility of Sauron using Smaug to lay waste to North and maybe Eriador as well and that's why Gandalf thought about helping the Dwarves to re-claim their kingdom and kill Smaug.

[JME2]

As I recall, the White Council moved against the Necromancer without really knowing who it was. Gandalf suspected it was Sauron, Saruman disagreed, but they eventually decided that the Necromancer needed to go, whoever he was. The Necromancer's identity was revealed during the struggle. All of this happened "off screen" of course, so the details are sketchy (although there may be more info in Appendix-type material).

As far as I remember, the White Council knew already that the Necromancer was Sauron before they attacked him. Gandalf also knew that he was Sauron, because he was so concerned about the possibility of Sauron using Smaug to lay waste to North and maybe Eriador as well and that's why Gandalf thought about helping the Dwarves to re-claim their kingdom and kill Smaug.

Correct as we saw in the Council of Elrond sequence in the book.

Gandalf's trip to Dol Guldur preceded the Erebor mission. He confirmed Sauron was there before setting out with Thorin.

[Covenant]

It's not like they had a whole lot of options to choose from. There was no Sicarius Dracorum laying around for them to use.

That was a fun movie!

Still, even though they don't have a specific Dragon-Slaying device just hanging around I would have liked if it had done something a bit more appreciable to him. Even if they had given me a toss-away line about "Giving Smaug more gold than he can handle" or something. I don't mind that it didn't work, I just mind that it didn't seem like there would have ever been a chance of it working.

If he had stepped on one of those forges and burnt his hand, I might have been happier, because that telegraphs to me the idea that Smaug is vulnerable to the heat of melted gold. He's a hot-drake so he radiates heat himself, and breathes fire, and can endure the flaming pits of a mountain which he was mostly likely bred in, so I don't really know if Tolkeinwise he should be vulnerable to heat... but I just, I don't know. It was like they tried to light a Balrog on fire to kill it, and then act surprised when fire doesn't kill the thing made of fire. It made me facepalm.

If they had simply submerged Smaug in water (ie, flip the gold and water moments so they piss him off first THEN try to drown him) they might have had a much better chance of killing him, as he could not only get his fire quenched but lose much of his strength.

But that's just me. I don't hate it, I think it just looked like a terrible idea. Why didn't they just run back up the tunnel they came down? I know they jumped down, but why? I'm not mad, I'm really not! I just wish the event had given me a greater sense of "oh shit, it didn't work!" than "no shit it didn't work."

[Ted C]

Gandalf's trip to Dol Guldur preceded the Erebor mission. He confirmed Sauron was there before setting out with Thorin.

I know that Gandalf had been to Dol Guldur before, because that's where he got the key to Erebor's back door from Thrain, but I don't remember him positively identifying Sauron during that trip.

[JME2]

Gandalf's trip to Dol Guldur preceded the Erebor mission. He confirmed Sauron was there before setting out with Thorin.

I know that Gandalf had been to Dol Guldur before, because that's where he got the key to Erebor's back door from Thrain, but I don't remember him positively identifying Sauron during that trip.

I thought he identified him while braving Dol Guldur's dungeons, but I could be wrong; it's been a while since I read the book.

[NeoGoomba]

I vaguely remember that up until the official assault on Mirkwood that the Council and Gandalf assumed the Necromancer was the Witch-King and not actually Sauron, but I could be off.

[Tiriol]

I vaguely remember that up until the official assault on Mirkwood that the Council and Gandalf assumed the Necromancer was the Witch-King and not actually Sauron, but I could be off.

Gandalf went to Dol Guldur twice: first time Sauron avoided detection by leaving the fortress and Gandalf discovered nothing of value. The second time Gandalf found Thorin's father in the dungeons of Dol Guldur and it was then he also learned of the Necromancer's true identity (we don't know how; maybe Thorin's father told him? I doubt Gandalf actually faced Sauron, because the Grey Wizard would have perished in that confrontation or would have been locked away permanently). Before that the Wise did suspect that the Necromancer was one of the Ringwraiths, but they couldn't be sure; and Gandalf was afraid that the Necromancer would be Sauron himself recovering his power and growing in strength.