Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

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Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Specifically ANIME Mecha.

It goes without saying that, while we did have Giant Robots fighting monsters, they were decidedly 'westernized' versions of Giant Robots.
So, what if we were to pick some Anime giant robots of similar size, weight and 'gravitas' as those of Pacific Rim?
Now, one might immediately think the obvious choice would be the giant robots of 'Evangelion' well two things.
1: They aren't "really" robots (yes a nitpick I know)
2: They don't exactly have the same weight and heft as the robots of Pacific Rim (shoot, in some scenes they move FASTER then humans could move)

My first choices would be The Big O and Giant Robo
While no exact height exists for them, going by eyeballing them as they walk by office buildings, they 'seem' to be a similar over all size to those of pacific rim and CERTAINLY have a similar weight and feel. Both move with big, slow steps and generally relay upon beating the crap out of things, rather than shooting pretty lasers (though Big-O DOES have good ol "eye lasers" in it's arsenal)

Curious to see what others might pic for Anime giant robots.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Borgholio »

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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Kojiro »

Borgholio wrote:Voltron.
Perfect choice- he can get beaten around a lot and then realise it has a sword that it probably should have opened with.

Most of them movement of the Jaegers looked very much like (what I imagine) a giant machine of those proportions would look like. Anime mecha (that I'm familiar with) tend to lack that feeling of weight. I suppose it's a matter of what you want to see really but I imagine pretty much any scale anime mecha would trash a kaiju.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Rogue 9 »

A Seawolf class submarine.

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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Kojiro wrote:Most of them movement of the Jaegers looked very much like (what I imagine) a giant machine of those proportions would look like. Anime mecha (that I'm familiar with) tend to lack that feeling of weight. I suppose it's a matter of what you want to see really but I imagine pretty much any scale anime mecha would trash a kaiju.
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And this is precisely why I prefer my Mecha to be Japanese. Only idiots try to make them realistic. :P

The Mass produced Eva line from the End. They're standardized, they fly, they were made to combat giant monster threats, they have nearly unlimited power output, they are almost completely indestructible and can regenerate to boot, and there is no need for some whiny or angsty pilot (adolescent or otherwise). What better way to go than automated?
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Lord Revan »

Aren't they still cyborgs and thus not "real" robots, I'll admit I've not seen End of Envangelion as I lost intrest in the orginal series when it went into mind fuck land.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Kojiro wrote:Most of them movement of the Jaegers looked very much like (what I imagine) a giant machine of those proportions would look like. Anime mecha (that I'm familiar with) tend to lack that feeling of weight. I suppose it's a matter of what you want to see really but I imagine pretty much any scale anime mecha would trash a kaiju.
Well that is sort of why I picked Big-O and Giant Robo. I mean I COULD just pick something ungodly powerful like the like ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom Gundam and be done it with it. But there should be more Mech out there that are closer ot the Pacific Rim Jaegers than most 'normal' "blink and killfuck the world" Anime mech.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Lord Revan wrote:Aren't they still cyborgs and thus not "real" robots, I'll admit I've not seen End of Envangelion as I lost intrest in the orginal series when it went into mind fuck land.
Technically they are Lovecraftian monsters with a human soul inside and a powersuit grafted to their skin. I don't know if you could shrink them to human proportions, so for all intents and purposes its like uploading someone's mind into an alien computer. Like Avatar, but larger. :P

They are still a better deal than sticking a "normal" human into a giant robot and throwing them into combat. Better reaction times, more fluent movement, no weak area where the cockpit is...
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Kojiro »

Formless wrote:And this is precisely why I prefer my Mecha to be Japanese. Only idiots try to make them realistic. :P
As I said, it's a matter of what you want to see. But my point- which you seemed to have missed- was that the kauju of Pacific Rim are matched to their Jaeger adversaries in terms of movement, mass and general feel. Once you go all amime you'll create a horrible mismatch of realism (loosely as that applies) levels and a corresponding curb stomp. Evas would trash a PR kaiju in seconds (well minutes, once you adjust for anime dramatic timing).
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Complaining about the thread doesn't change what it is. Logically speaking, something that slow and plodding is only a threat to the conventional military because the plot says it is. Again, that's why I don't like this western American tendency to try and give mecha and monsters "weight". It only calls attention to how unrealistic they are in ways more pertinent to fiction than their movement.
Last edited by Formless on 2013-10-15 05:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Kojiro »

Formless wrote:Complaining about the thread doesn't change what it is.
Of course not, but if you start with an absurd premise like giant robots/monsters and then alter the medium from live action to animated it's worth acknowledging there could be issues. Call that 'complaining' if you want.
Formless wrote:Logically speaking, something that slow and plodding is only a threat to the conventional military because the plot says it is. Again, that's why I don't like this western American tendency to try and give mecha and monsters "weight". It only calls attention to how unrealistic they are in ways more pertinent to fiction than their movement.
Sure, we agree it's silly. I'm in no way defending the Jaegers as 'more realistic' than anime. Merely pointing out that on the realism scale PR is closer- however far removed- than most anime.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Would you say that the Battlestar Galactica is "more realistic" than the Enterprise D, Y/N?

And that is how I think you fail.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Kojiro »

Formless wrote:Would you say that the Battlestar Galactica is "more realistic" than the Enterprise D, Y/N?

And that is how I think you fail.
Well done champ, you've missed the point entirely.

Technically they're both spaceships and fall within the same genre, in the same way Jaegers and God Gundam are both mecha. The problem isn't the various levels of realism within either series- it's when you cross them over such as this thread proposes. Jaegers (and PR kaiju) don't operate under the same (equally unrealistic but hopefully internally consistent) rules that anime mecha do. Goku could probably have defended New York better than the Avengers too. Well unless you mean the live action Goku...
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Jaegers (and PR kaiju) don't operate under the same (equally unrealistic but hopefully internally consistent) rules that anime mecha do.
How about you prove that statement rather than making an ass of yourself.

P.S. your goalpost has shifted. Move it back, please.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Here, I'll throw you a bone. You start with the premise "Pacific Rim is more realistic than any anime mecha" (which is grossly overgeneralized) and that "any anime mecha could kill a kaiju" (which is even worse-- what about those that can't fight in water? Or are a fraction of a kaiju's height?).

Then when called on the idea that they are more realistic (which is quite disputable) you say "ah ah no, they work on different rules, that are equally unrealistic; and its relative". You can't have it both ways: you can't have them be equally unrealistic and have PR be more realistic. Likewise, you can't say that realism is a matter relative to crossovers, because realism is measured in objective terms by definition.

Ed: And by the way, that point you thought you were conveying in your first post about the Kaiju being matched against the Jaegers on purpose? I think you should reevaluate how subtle you have to be, because there comes a point where its no longer subtlety and the message is no longer there at all.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Kojiro »

Formless wrote:How about you prove that statement rather than making an ass of yourself.
You want me to prove that anime mecha generally move, fight etc differently to PR Jaegers? Are you implying that you believe Jaegers in a live action movie and the mecha in say, Evangelion are operating under the same rules? You see no difference there?
Formless wrote:P.S. your goalpost has shifted. Move it back, please.
How exactly? My point was and still is that crossing anime (that I was familiar with) with the more realistic feeling live action PR would be largely a matter of what you want to see happen. If my posts moved- which you can spell out if you like- it was when you shifted to the spaceships.

Either way this is rapidly going off topic but I'd be happy to continue this in PMs.
Edit: though I'd be happy to continue here if mods don't mind the derail.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Formless »

Kojiro wrote:You want me to prove that anime mecha generally move, fight etc differently to PR Jaegers? Are you implying that you believe Jaegers in a live action movie and the mecha in say, Evangelion are operating under the same rules? You see no difference there?
No, I want you to prove that they should be evaluated on different criterion for realism, effectiveness, or suitability to this scenario. There is more than one way to interpret your words, and this one is no less valid considering your complaints.
How exactly? My point was and still is that crossing anime (that I was familiar with) with the more realistic feeling live action PR would be largely a matter of what you want to see happen. If my posts moved- which you can spell out if you like- it was when you shifted to the spaceships.
I refer you to the post directly above yours.

The spaceships post was an argument by analogy, to expose how the claim "PR is more realistic than any anime" is a crock of shit. There are multiple criteria for realism, and anime tend to fail one so they can pass another (e.g. Evas and Angels are stated to be made of fictional exotic matter, explaining how they move and regenerate so fluidly despite being ~40m tall). PR fails a different set (the threat response by the military to monsters that should be stuck in the Pacific for months or worse because of their slow movement) so that it can pass the (IMO superficial) "weight of motion" criteria you and others want to see in a movie like this.

Similarly, the Battlestar Galactic is "grittier" and uses familiar weapons like nukes, but also has spacefighters which are as complicated a subject realism-wise as mecha are. The Enterprise has a sleek aesthetic and more "futuristic" technologies onboard, but also has a more fully fleshed out world where those technologies fit into context (at least when the writers remember what they did last season, then it works).

Ed: addition to the end, minor clarifications.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Sharp-kun »

One of the MP Sizzler suits from Gunbuster.

Kaiju won't even know what hit them. Not sure what the effect of firing that kind of weaponry on earth would be though...
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Ford Prefect »

Formless wrote:Evas [...] ~40m tall
Evangelions are more than 60m tall in the television series, going by some production art in the Evangelion Newtype 100% Collection. The new theatrical editions Evangelions are more more than 80m.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Borgholio »

I wonder if Unicron would count as a mecha...
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Sharp-kun »

Ford Prefect wrote:
Formless wrote:Evas [...] ~40m tall
Evangelions are more than 60m tall in the television series, going by some production art in the Evangelion Newtype 100% Collection. The new theatrical editions Evangelions are more more than 80m.
In the TV series there was no canon height for the Eva's since they intentionally changed the height to look dramatic depending on the scene (ie hide behind buildings in one, tower over in others).
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Majin Gojira »

Keep in mind that the Kaiju to be faced are 50 to 100 metes tall. Just to give some examples:

Onibaba (The crab monster in the Flashback): Category II, 57 Meters tall.

Knifehead (the one that took down Gypsy Danger originally): Category III, 96 Meters

Mutavore (The Sydney Wall Destroyer): Category IV: 90 Meters

Leatherback (The EMP Equipped Kaiju): Category IV: 81 Meters

Otachi (The Flying Kaiju): Category IV: 63 Meters

Raiju (The Fast Swimming Kaiju): Category IV: 109 Meters

Scunner (The Horn-Headed Kaiju working with Raiju): Category IV: 134 Meters

Slattern (The Final Boss Kaiju): Category V: 181 Meters

The last three especially, but also for the others, could be total length measurements for the Kaiju. And if you get into the supplementary material and Video Games and stuff, Slattern becomes even worse than what we saw: electrically charging its tail for strikes and even having a Heisei Godzilla like green breath weapon.

Looking at everyone's choices, some of them really do come up short. Pun Intended.

Giant Robo and The Big O are about 30 meters tall.

Strike Freedom? 18 Meters.

God Gundam? 16.6 Meters.

These have powerful weapons, certainly, but if the Kaiju gets in close, they can be thrown around like rag dolls or ripped apart in seconds.
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Re: Pacific Rim Re-Pick: grab some Mecha for Kaiju defense

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

30 meters? Can I aks where you got those?
I was sure they were around 50 meters at least.

And you do hit the nail on the head, aside form the STUPID big mechs (Gunbuster, Gurren Lagann, etc)
Most mechs are quite small. I guess part of the whole nature of Anime is such that Giant Robots like, well Giant Robo, are rare.
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