Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Moderator: Steve
Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Ding Dong Grant Is Gone!
So it's finally over. The Mad Scotsman's finally finished with the Bat after 7 years.
While there have been parts I liked, I can't say this is going to go down as one of my favorite Batman runs. I'm just tired of Morrison's writing style, his interpretation of Pointy Ears, and his meta-commentary. I especially don't like how he ruined Talia -- though I grant that destruction began with Rucka and Death and the Maidens. For me at least, Talia works better when morally gray.
That having been said, I don't think I disagree with the commentary he's delivered here. Like Leviathan's Ouroboros, Bats is trapped in an endless loop. Robins come and go, but Bruce will also survive. By nature of being a corporate-owned super-hero in a serialized medium, he can never truly triumph over any of his foes or grow. There's no end to his story, yet it always paradoxically comes full circle for each new run-- like the Ouroboros.
This is one reason why I've been tiring of the DCU for a while and have been leaning more towards stuff like Vertigo. It's also why I've stopped following characters and instead focused on authors whose takes I like.
Anyway, it'd be interesting to compare this finale to the early issues of his run. I think Morrison honestly 7 years ago thought he could shift and alter the paradigm and iconography and gradually realized that corporate demands make that impossible.
So it's finally over. The Mad Scotsman's finally finished with the Bat after 7 years.
While there have been parts I liked, I can't say this is going to go down as one of my favorite Batman runs. I'm just tired of Morrison's writing style, his interpretation of Pointy Ears, and his meta-commentary. I especially don't like how he ruined Talia -- though I grant that destruction began with Rucka and Death and the Maidens. For me at least, Talia works better when morally gray.
That having been said, I don't think I disagree with the commentary he's delivered here. Like Leviathan's Ouroboros, Bats is trapped in an endless loop. Robins come and go, but Bruce will also survive. By nature of being a corporate-owned super-hero in a serialized medium, he can never truly triumph over any of his foes or grow. There's no end to his story, yet it always paradoxically comes full circle for each new run-- like the Ouroboros.
This is one reason why I've been tiring of the DCU for a while and have been leaning more towards stuff like Vertigo. It's also why I've stopped following characters and instead focused on authors whose takes I like.
Anyway, it'd be interesting to compare this finale to the early issues of his run. I think Morrison honestly 7 years ago thought he could shift and alter the paradigm and iconography and gradually realized that corporate demands make that impossible.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
I was going to ask how they ruined Talia, but after seeing the scans I don't need to. Ew.
(Although my first thought was "Why is Batman dressed like Judge Dredd?")
(Although my first thought was "Why is Batman dressed like Judge Dredd?")
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
That... made no sense.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Kathy Kane was set up in the last volume of Inc., but it really only appeals to 1970's Batman fans.
I can't help wondering if it might have made more sense is Morrison had been allowed to finish his story within the pre-New 52 continuity instead of having to accommodate the changes.
It's kinda like how part of me wishes Johns has been allowed to wrap up his GL run before having to move it into the reboot continuity.
I can't help wondering if it might have made more sense is Morrison had been allowed to finish his story within the pre-New 52 continuity instead of having to accommodate the changes.
It's kinda like how part of me wishes Johns has been allowed to wrap up his GL run before having to move it into the reboot continuity.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
The hell is this crap?
I mean, the artwork, the dialogue....sounds like any crap comic. Totally indistinguishable from any other comic.
I mean, the artwork, the dialogue....sounds like any crap comic. Totally indistinguishable from any other comic.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
I think I'd like that part about matching wits with mental patients better if it was part of a different plot. Maybe if she'd been, I don't know, staging an intervention by killing all his rogues currently in Arkham Asylum, a bitter line about how he's holding himself back by treating them like equals would fit well.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Chris Burnham's been trying to channel Frank Quitely, but I miss the pencils of Andy Kubert, JH Williams, or even Tony Daniel.Thanas wrote:The hell is this crap?
I mean, the artwork, the dialogue....sounds like any crap comic. Totally indistinguishable from any other comic.
I've also been wondering if Morrison's run -- or at least the second half, the Batman Inc.-era -- was deliberately written as a satire of the character and DC's corporate practices.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
People bought this shit? Really?
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
I didn't.Imperial Overlord wrote:People bought this shit? Really?
But evidently enough people have for Morrison to churn out 50+ issues over the last 7 years.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Fuck that was bad. I already knew Grant wasn't called the Mad Scotsman for nothing, but damn, that coupled with that artwork? Seriously? One of your flagship titles, and that's the artwork inside of it?
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects."
R.A. Heinlein.
Specialization is for insects."
R.A. Heinlein.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Anyone who thinks Talia of all people is going to stay dead please raise a hand.
I see I have, once again, forgotten about the usefulness of proper pockets on the utility belt. And who's Batdredd?
Also, Kathy Kane. 'I' had to look her up when she made her reappearance in the DCU and live there. Other than 'The Silver Age was so much better than modern comics, let's bring it all back' was there any point to that?
I see I have, once again, forgotten about the usefulness of proper pockets on the utility belt. And who's Batdredd?
Also, Kathy Kane. 'I' had to look her up when she made her reappearance in the DCU and live there. Other than 'The Silver Age was so much better than modern comics, let's bring it all back' was there any point to that?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Batman wrote:Anyone who thinks Talia of all people is going to stay dead please raise a hand.
I see I have, once again, forgotten about the usefulness of proper pockets on the utility belt. And who's Batdredd?
Also, Kathy Kane. 'I' had to look her up when she made her reappearance in the DCU and live there. Other than 'The Silver Age was so much better than modern comics, let's bring it all back' was there any point to that?
I assumed she was Batwoman...
Also, Bat, what's up with the cow?
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
There's no cow in any of those pictures?
And yes, she's Batwoman. She also didn't exist in modern Batman mythology until The Powers That Are Apparently Stark Raving Mad Be decided to bring her back because, obviously, everything Silver Age is so much better.
And yes, she's Batwoman. She also didn't exist in modern Batman mythology until The Powers That Are Apparently Stark Raving Mad Be decided to bring her back because, obviously, everything Silver Age is so much better.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
http://abload.de/img/batmanincorporated201s3y2o.jpgBatman wrote:There's no cow in any of those pictures?
There is on the last panel of this one.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Technically, that could be an oxen as I don't see any udders but I'll happily admit I oversaw that one.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Comics publishing has long relied on the fact that people will buy any old shit if you put the right brand on it.Imperial Overlord wrote:People bought this shit? Really?
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
They also brought her back so that they could write her as a lesbian.Batman wrote:There's no cow in any of those pictures?
And yes, she's Batwoman. She also didn't exist in modern Batman mythology until The Powers That Are Apparently Stark Raving Mad Be decided to bring her back because, obviously, everything Silver Age is so much better.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
They at least got Greg Rucka to write her, who is one of the handful of writers in the comic world who is actually good at writing women, and an artist who can actually produce art. You can do something worthwhile with that, as opposed to this garbage writing and garbage art.Eframepilot wrote:They also brought her back so that they could write her as a lesbian.Batman wrote:There's no cow in any of those pictures?
And yes, she's Batwoman. She also didn't exist in modern Batman mythology until The Powers That Are Apparently Stark Raving Mad Be decided to bring her back because, obviously, everything Silver Age is so much better.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
That's a different one. A better one, from what I've seen of both.Eframepilot wrote:They also brought her back so that they could write her as a lesbian.Batman wrote:And yes, she's Batwoman. She also didn't exist in modern Batman mythology until The Powers That Are Apparently Stark Raving Mad Be decided to bring her back because, obviously, everything Silver Age is so much better.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Batman: 'BatDredd' is Jason Todd; he was posing as the new Wingman earlier in Inc. (after the original was killed pre-Batman RIP). Of course, Jason's still operating as the Red Hood, so it's a continuity mess as usual.
Spekio: I believe the Cow was rescued during a raid on a Leviathan base at the beginning of the current volume and that Damian wanted to keep it as a pet.
Spekio: I believe the Cow was rescued during a raid on a Leviathan base at the beginning of the current volume and that Damian wanted to keep it as a pet.
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Also, neither Talia or Damian are going to stay dead too long.
From what I've read, Ra's grabs both of their bodies at the end of the issue and begins work on cloning an army of Damians.
So, somebody will undoubtedly follow up on this. I also fully expect someone to dig the still living Dr. Hurt out of the grave the Joker dumped him in somewhere down the road.
From what I've read, Ra's grabs both of their bodies at the end of the issue and begins work on cloning an army of Damians.
So, somebody will undoubtedly follow up on this. I also fully expect someone to dig the still living Dr. Hurt out of the grave the Joker dumped him in somewhere down the road.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
You know much as I love Talia, if I could get rid of Damian for keeps losing her for keeps too would be a price worth paying. I'd still have Selina for the 'conflicted on and off love interest' angle, afterall.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
I don't know what to say to that. Hey, let's put a cow into the batcave! We have no spare room on the mansion grounds.JME2 wrote: Spekio: I believe the Cow was rescued during a raid on a Leviathan base at the beginning of the current volume and that Damian wanted to keep it as a pet.
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Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
I'm reasonably certain if there were a cow in the Batcave, I would have noticed, if only because of Alfred complaining (the bats are essentially self sufficient. The cow is sort of out of its ordinary environment and needs for somebody too feed it and deal with the results of it having been fed).
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Re: Batman Inc. #13 (Spoilers)
Yeah.Batman wrote:You know much as I love Talia, if I could get rid of Damian for keeps losing her for keeps too would be a price worth paying. I'd still have Selina for the 'conflicted on and off love interest' angle, afterall.
Again, the decline of Talia really started with Rucka and Death and the Maidens -- and incidentally, part of me still wishes this had been the last Ra's story as Rucka intended. It still annoys me that DC brought him back after only 3 years -- and keep in mind, Ra's is my favorite Bat villain after Two-Face.