Superheroes: A dilemma

[Scrib]

I was recently watching a clip from Smallville involving Slade/Deathstroke and it made me wonder. Slade claims that the only way the law works is if everyone is bound to it on some level (presumably he means by force here). People like Clark Kent are, to him, unacceptable wild cards. I was wondering where others fell on this topic.

It's our Earth, with no superheroes or villains whatsoever and thus, no defences against them. Enter one John Smith. He has the invulnerability and strength of Superman and the molecular manipulation of Dr. Manhattan as well as extreme intelligence. He appears to the UN and declares that he received his powers a few weeks ago by an unknown mechanism and has decided that he wants to do good. He starts planning on producing materials for more sustainable energy sources and transport, building houses, that sort of thing. He also expresses, in a more muted tone, sorrow at how things are going in certain war-torn parts of the world and hell, even in more developed areas.

You, by a similarly mysterious procedure, come into possession the Macguffin button, his only weakness. He cannot sense it, or the person in possession of it so you are perfectly safe and immune to his powers. You're aware that this is the only thing that can kill him but here's the kicker: it'll only work for about four weeks, then his power grows beyond it. So you have to act fast. If you push the button he will die and his body, and all traces of his DNA will disappear.

There will be no other superhumans and at first glance he seems to be keeping his word. Would you let this man continue on the off-chance that he is good, or is the chance of him not cooperating too high to risk his continued existence? Where do you stand?

[Dass.Kapital]

Posting from the top of my head:

I have three weeks, six days and twelve hours in which to make as well informed decision as I can with said McGuffin of supery doom in relation to Super John Smith.

In that time I shall endeavor to watch as much media about Super John Smith as possible. Since, after standing up in front of the U.N. and demonstrating said super powers Super John Smith will be observed and watched for by every camera and recording device on the planet. (From Hand held mobile phones to city CCTV systems) to see where he goes and what he does.

If, in said three weeks etc Super John Smith doesn't manage to go off the rails? Then yes, perhaps the McGuffin of supery doom might not get used. Unless Super John Smith's intellect is SO super that they can hide their true expressions for said amount of time.

NOTE: By the OP's initial comments, Mr Super John Smith has to sleep some time/some where. NO one really hides their true personality at the equivalent of two in the morning.

Very much cheers to all.

[Carinthium]

Does John Smith know about the Macguffin Button existing at all? I'm guessing no, but asking because if he did I would start an anonymous email account claiming to be the guy with the button and give him two weeks (for time reasons) to find a way to neutralise the threat of him going rogue. I'm bluffing, but he can't risk it. Meanwhile, I would have a proxy go spy on John Smith.

I'm not sure if I had the courage in practice, but assuming I have the courage of my convictions then I would head for him and try to spy on him to discover more information. Yes this is a personal sacrifice, but I would have the chance to change history- a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Assuming I lack the courage, then my selfish side would want to suck up as, flaws and all, John Smith would be the only hope I had to be immortal.

[Scrib]

Does John Smith know about the Macguffin Button existing at all?[/quote]
Let's go with no.

I'm guessing no, but asking because if he did I would start an anonymous email account claiming to be the guy with the button and give him two weeks (for time reasons) to find a way to neutralise the threat of him going rogue. I'm bluffing, but he can't risk it. Meanwhile, I would have a proxy go spy on John Smith.

How would he do that? The threat is inherent to his situation no? Maybe he won't go off the rails in a "Clark on red kryptonite" way (good luck telling though), but if the law or convention ever got inconvenient..

[Grumman]

Where do you stand?

I'm against murdering an innocent man, and John Smith has done nothing wrong.

[Carinthium]

I'm against murdering an innocent man too. However, given the potential for danger I see nothing wrong with investigating him in legal ways (since he's in the United States, a lot of the laws are unconstitutional anyway giving me, as a private individual, plenty of room to act).

I don't know how he'd deal with himself as a threat, but you specified this person has "extreme intelligence". Maybe he'll think of something I can't. I could then (in this scenario) go for consultation in fantasy forums like this as if it were just a hypothetical.

[Ford Prefect]

I go and talk with John Smith.

[Carinthium]

If he doesn't know about the button, why would he talk to you at all? Just because he's not an asshole doesn't mean he won't refuse to talk to you.

[Scrib]

If he doesn't know about the button, why would he talk to you at all? Just because he's not an asshole doesn't mean he won't refuse to talk to you.

And let's not forget that he is currently the most important person in history. Are you sure that you'll get close?

The thing I'm really curious about though is what would he say that would help you make up your mind? Do you plan to use the button as a threat because you know that he doesn't know it's limitations?

[Raw Shark]

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in four weeks, but soon. I let him do 3.5 weeks of good deeds, and then ice the poor bastard and hope it's painless.

[Grumman]

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in four weeks, but soon. I let him do 3.5 weeks of good deeds, and then ice the poor bastard and hope it's painless.

Power does not corrupt, power just lets the corrupt show their true nature.

[Raw Shark]

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in four weeks, but soon. I let him do 3.5 weeks of good deeds, and then ice the poor bastard and hope it's painless.

Power does not corrupt, power just lets the corrupt show their true nature.

I'm not just speaking about Smith, but also myself. I'd like to think that I could patiently observe for four weeks and then hand over the wheel for the whole fucking world to a guy I don't really know, but that's a saccharine fantasy for a guy who doesn't even trust his girlfriend with his email password. I'd kill him and convince myself that we'd all be slaves if I didn't, regardless of the truth of the matter.

[Scrib]

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in four weeks, but soon. I let him do 3.5 weeks of good deeds, and then ice the poor bastard and hope it's painless.

Power does not corrupt, power just lets the corrupt show their true nature.

Considering that we're generally talking about levels of power outside the reach of most people when we use that phrase I'm not sure that the distinction is important.

I'm against murdering an innocent man, and John Smith has done nothing wrong.

But what if he does? After this short period you won't be able to do anything about it. And seeing as there aren't any constraints on his power that aren't self-imposed, the potential harm he could do is almost limitless.

[Carinthium]

Come to think of it, I don't know what sort of powers Doctor Manhattan has, but couldn't you get to him while he was still "good" and persuade him to put some sort of mind control or hypnosis spell on him to limit his free will sufficiently that he could NOT become an opressor?

[Scrib]

Come to think of it, I don't know what sort of powers Doctor Manhattan has, but couldn't you get to him while he was still "good" and persuade him to put some sort of mind control or hypnosis spell on him to limit his free will sufficiently that he could NOT become an opressor?

Manhattan has no mind control (though I've always wondered if very refined telekinesis may as well be). I just think of him as a slightly lesser version of the Plutonian. Super strong, fast, smart but with the additional ability to change one substance into another or minor reality warping. Not sure if I want to go beyond that. Things like time travel for example seem to defeat the purpose of the question to me.

But just for giggles; what counts as oppression?

[Carinthium]

Had an answer- lost it. However, on second thoughts the mind control would probably best work by getting rid of the "power corrupts" instinct and merely having the moral side of his personality take over. This wouldn't be brainwashing as he would be doing it of his own free will (I have the Button in reserve as a threat, but he doesn't know that). John Smith is presumably not perfect, but if his conscience takes complete control of his personality he'll be close enough to avoid disaster at least.

[Scrib]

Had an answer- lost it. However, on second thoughts the mind control would probably best work by getting rid of the "power corrupts" instinct and merely having the moral side of his personality take over. This wouldn't be brainwashing as he would be doing it of his own free will (I have the Button in reserve as a threat, but he doesn't know that). John Smith is presumably not perfect, but if his conscience takes complete control of his personality he'll be close enough to avoid disaster at least.

What if his conscience prompted him to take over a country before it did something that would harm the majority of it's citizens? It's not just bad impulses like greed or ambition that can be the problem.

[Spekio]

I would press the button as soon as I possibly could.

Sure, he might be a "good man", by today's standarts. But what if he decides that he could do much better running the world than everyone else? Or even better John Smith decides to follow Superman's motto, and spread The American Way(TM) on those nasty, godless nations?

Remember, morals come from society, and a definition of good is very different for each generation. Imagine if John was a "good" fundamentlist muslim from Iran or a guy from 80s South Africa, who thought nothing of keeping colored and whites appart. Perhaps some notion of what we think is good will be considered nocive and vile in the future, yet immortal John Smith would help perpetuate it - unnoposed, for he is god.

In my opinion, he is too dangerous to be kept alive.

[madd0ct0r]

assuming John is a good person, when he eventually becomes bored and dissasociated with the world, maybe he'll simply leave?

[Batman]

Um-the US and Clark have in the past often and sometimes violently been in disagreement about what 'The American Way(TM)' should be as opposed to what it currently was so I'm not sure what you mean about Clark spreading it to those nasty, godless nations not that I can recall at least from halfway recent material that he ever gave a damn about religion. Terror, suppression, injustice, yeah, that he really doesn't care for no matter the cause. But if those (and all the other associated side effects of religious bigotry) DON'T happen, Clark couldn't care less if you believe in Yahweh, Rao, Zeus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

As for the actual scenario, I'd probably wait until the last moment and embrace alcohol something fierce afterwards in the hopes that it helps me forget, but I think I'd push the button. In a world with no other superheroes to stop him and given his combination of powers, it's just too big a risk to take. Give me 4, 6, 10 years to watch and study him, for the rest of the world to study him (because as others have mentioned, there's bound to be a camera on him pretty much every moment we CAN get a camera on him) and I might believe that he really is benign and will use his powers for good, and will not use them even when it looks like he should for a short-term solution but in the long term would do at best nothing to fix the underlying problem and at worst would make the situation worse.
But with only 4 weeks? I push the button.

[Scrib]

assuming John is a good person, when he eventually becomes bored and dissasociated with the world, maybe he'll simply leave?

Possible. But that's assuming that he's a good person. And that he wouldn't be even more bored with barren space. Or that he'd become disassociated in the first place. Or...you get the point.But hey, anything is possible. Unfortunately.

[Spekio]

Um-the US and Clark have in the past often and sometimes violently been in disagreement about what 'The American Way(TM)' should be as opposed to what it currently was so I'm not sure what you mean about Clark spreading it to those nasty, godless nations not that I can recall at least from halfway recent material that he ever gave a damn about religion. Terror, suppression, injustice, yeah, that he really doesn't care for no matter the cause. But if those (and all the other associated side effects of religious bigotry) DON'T happen, Clark couldn't care less if you believe in Yahweh, Rao, Zeus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

What I mean, bats, it's the entitlement the US with violating sovereignty of other nations, including the CIA aiding dictatorships across the world that were sympathetic to towards it. Imagine if Superman interfered in any war - like Doctor Manhattan in Vietnam as portrayed in Watchmen - interceding for the US?

And what if Clark still held the same beliefs he professed in the 40s?

[Enigma]

If I can get to him, I'd let him know of the box and give it to him. I oppose taking another person's life for just about any reason other than self defense. We don't know if our next door neighbor will become a cannibalistic serial killer, doesn't mean we have the right to kill him\her just in case.

Might as well extinguish the human race for the off chance of preventing more evil people from existing. Really, this is a slippery slope scenario.

[Scrib]

If I can get to him, I'd let him know of the box and give it to him. I oppose taking another person's life for just about any reason other than self defense. We don't know if our next door neighbor will become a cannibalistic serial killer, doesn't mean we have the right to kill him\her just in case.

Might as well extinguish the human race for the off chance of preventing more evil people from existing. Really, this is a slippery slope scenario.

Can you not see the difference between your neighbor, a man of likely average strength and intelligence and thus bound by the social contract, and a what is for all intents and purposes a god? If your neighbor became a serial killer he'd have people with decades worth of info on the topic hunting him and he''d have all sorts of disadvantages and the damage he could do would be pretty small. If John Smith wanted to become a cannibal he'd have people farms.

[fgalkin]

Question: What does he do in these first four weeks?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin