Game of Thrones Season 3: A Storm of Swords (No Spoilers)

[Havok]

I didn't think that he abandoned her at all. Not in a "HAHA DUMBASS I WAS JUST FUCKING AROUND YOU SUCK!" kinda way.
Go back and watch it again.
He knocks her down so she can't fire on her own friends at his side thus saving her from certain death if he gets killed. He also spares her from having to make an almost impossible choice between the Wildlings and himself.
Not to mention the fact that if they did happen to get away together, he is still a member of the Knight's Watch and couldn't be with her anyway, if they didn't just kill him for breaking his vow of celibacy and then her for being a Wildling.

[Scrib]

nvm

[Vympel]

I didn't think that he abandoned her at all. Not in a "HAHA DUMBASS I WAS JUST FUCKING AROUND YOU SUCK!" kinda way.
Go back and watch it again.
He knocks her down so she can't fire on her own friends at his side thus saving her from certain death if he gets killed. He also spares her from having to make an almost impossible choice between the Wildlings and himself.
Not to mention the fact that if they did happen to get away together, he is still a member of the Knight's Watch and couldn't be with her anyway, if they didn't just kill him for breaking his vow of celibacy and then her for being a Wildling.

Nah definitely not in that way - I should've been more clear, but he really had no choice but to abandon her. A lot of people seem to think he should've attacked Tormund and taken her with him to ... well ... its impossible.

Never heard that before, but I can definitely see it. Stannis would be about as happy as King as Tiberius was as Emperor, too.

GRRM told me on his livejournal page when I informed him George Baker had passed away

[Thanas]

Well, then Stannis would be a good emperor who successfully navigated several crisis whcih threatened his reign, who abandoned senseless military attempts at conquest and who caused the empire to prosper.

Not a bad track record.

[CaptHawkeye]

I didn't think that he abandoned her at all. Not in a "HAHA DUMBASS I WAS JUST FUCKING AROUND YOU SUCK!" kinda way.
Go back and watch it again.
He knocks her down so she can't fire on her own friends at his side thus saving her from certain death if he gets killed. He also spares her from having to make an almost impossible choice between the Wildlings and himself.
Not to mention the fact that if they did happen to get away together, he is still a member of the Knight's Watch and couldn't be with her anyway, if they didn't just kill him for breaking his vow of celibacy and then her for being a Wildling.

Jon tried to warn her about the futility of fighting for the Wildlings before. "Six times they've they've attacked the wall and six times you've been defeated." That was his hint that she should flee with him. He was taking a real risk showing that kind of attitude after all, she could have told Tormund about it.

[Scrib]

I don't think that Jon ever wanted to flee WITH her. If anything I'd say that Ygritte wanted that more than Jon, she's quite clear-eyed about their relative value to their respective causes. Jon might have wanted her to quit but he always had a job to do. I think the think that really burns Ygritte is not that he's a crow, it's that he chose that above her even after her little speech.

[Patroklos]

Nah definitely not in that way - I should've been more clear, but he really had no choice but to abandon her. A lot of people seem to think he should've attacked Tormund and taken her with him to ... well ... its impossible.

I think a lot of that has to do with them only showing one other opponent, Tormund, still there after Jon kills the warg dude. It looks like instead of going one on one with Tormund he just runs away. All the other wildlings were killed by the wolves.
Spoiler

In the books its the entire wildling raiding party he is running away from which is a smart move

He also saw his brother's wolves so I wonder if he is going to make that connection. Also I doubt Jon has anything to fear on the celibacy front, its made pretty clear many of the brothers don't follow that vow very well.

[Elfdart]

I'm surprised at how many non-book readers had a problem with Jon running off without Ygritte. Not only did she kill the the defenceless old horse breeder (showing how different she is from him in that respect), but he clearly wasn't going to risk his chance of warning Castle Black with some sentimental attempt to bring her back to a whole bunch of awkward questions.

I'm assuming he saw the two dire wolves and surmised his step-brothers were nearby. Running away causes the Wildlings to chase after him instead of snooping around -especially when (a) he's obviously going to warn the rest of the Crows and (b) his "Ha, I was a Crow all along!" taunt as he kills the beastmaster guarantees they'll be after his scalp.

[Sinewmire]

He knocks her down so she can't fire on her own friends at his side thus saving her from certain death if he gets killed. He also spares her from having to make an almost impossible choice between the Wildlings and himself.

Or he knocked her down because he wasn't certain he could trust her, so took her out of the fight, and then left.

I loved Roose Bolton in this. His conversation with Catelyn and his glances at his sleeve were subtle, and his portrayal has been that of a hard unblinking man, without being Grima-Wormtongue "spot-the-evil-guy-in-the-room" unsubtle. I was expecting his betrayal because of his talk with Jaime, but most of my friends were shocked.

No. It's poorly executed because it was in the vein of a Shyamalan film, poorly directed, shot, exaggerated, violence over atmosphere, etc.

It worked for me. I felt my blood run cold when I saw Roose's chainmail. I was genuinely surprised they killed Katelyn - I'd had her pegged as the kind who lingers and suffers loss after loss. As for a Shymalan style twist? Well, I've never read the books but the groundwork for this had been laid, and all the motives make sense. I'd predicted something of this sort during the last episode, but the carnage was shocking. As it should be. That's the point.

[Elfdart]

Well, then Stannis would be a good emperor who successfully navigated several crisis whcih threatened his reign, who abandoned senseless military attempts at conquest and who caused the empire to prosper.

Not a bad track record.

Just keep him away from the kids' swimming pool.

[The Yosemite Bear]

so he's a roman emporer....

[Surlethe]

It worked for me. I felt my blood run cold when I saw Roose's chainmail. I was genuinely surprised they killed Katelyn - I'd had her pegged as the kind who lingers and suffers loss after loss. As for a Shymalan style twist? Well, I've never read the books but the groundwork for this had been laid, and all the motives make sense. I'd predicted something of this sort during the last episode, but the carnage was shocking. As it should be. That's the point.

Spoiler

Oh, she tarries, but I think she's done suffering.

[Thanas]

Well, then Stannis would be a good emperor who successfully navigated several crisis whcih threatened his reign, who abandoned senseless military attempts at conquest and who caused the empire to prosper.

Not a bad track record.

Just keep him away from the kids' swimming pool.

Ugh not that stuff again....

[JLTucker]

Wow. What an uneventful and tedious season finale. Not only was the pacing awful, but the biggest failing of this series came back to haunt us (too many characters). Do the writers really think that viewers are invested in Theon's situation and his family? Too much time passed by for us to even have a semblance of empathy for his father and sister. That entire scene was poorly edited and written. Let's have a poor voice over with her preparing to get her brother, when we never got a sense that she gave a shit about him! And even if my memory fails me on this point, it doesn't matter. Too much time passed to bring these characters back in a cohesive manner.

Once again, the highlight is Arya. More time with her, less time with the Queen of Dragons, a character was has been more inconsistent than Obama. A semi-strong character in season one is turned into a neurotic mess in season two and then back to semi-strong in season three.

[Crown]

Once again, the highlight is Arya. More time with her, less time with the Queen of Dragons, a character was has been more inconsistent than Obama. A semi-strong character in season one is turned into a neurotic mess in season two and then back to semi-strong in season three.

Maisie Williams steals scenes with Arya, she really does.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Honestly, I thought the episode was pretty thematically really strong, with most of the threads of the episode linked with the idea of family in a way I found really satisfying. The Greyjoy scene was pretty sloppy, yeah; that seemed as if they were running out of time to fit stuff in so they mashed together some of her statement with visuals to speed us along that part. I did like the start of it though and I honestly thought her decision that she'd made was to kill her father and take the throne, until we got the weird voiceover scene.

There's also nothing like putting the books to visuals to highlight how problematic is Danaerys's lily-white silk-draped noble messiah self saving the dirty rag-clad dark-skinned throngs, though.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

fuck I hit quote instead of edit

Oh well I'll get some use out of it:

Edit: You know, I think the Greyjoy scene could be improved immensely by simply having her go "I've made my decision" and then show her boarding a ship with her little army. Should be easy enough to get all the same information without the clumsy voiceover, and even people who wouldn't be able to catch what's going on would at least know that she's off to go do something all dramatical with her tough angry men.

[Vympel]

Let's have a poor voice over with her preparing to get her brother, when we never got a sense that she gave a shit about him! And even if my memory fails me on this point

It does. Yara implored Theon to leave Winterfell with her when we last saw her back in Season 2, in the scene where she reminisces what a horrible baby he was, never stop crying. but how he smiled whenever he saw her.

EDIT: I think you can obviously chalk up any disassociation from this scene to GOT's nature. The show is best watched in large chunks of multiple episodes at a time - I rewatched the series from the beginning on my blu-rays, and saw the season 2 finale about a day or so before season 3 premiered. For more casual viewers, asking them to remember what happened on the show a year ago can be a bit much, especially without the aid of the opening "previously" segment.

[JLTucker]

An entire season without her. You take creative liberties and screw the novel and make something up to make it more cohesive. They sure didn't mind it with the awful stabbing of the womb scene.

I'm officially done with the show, though.

[Kane Starkiller]

Well I have to say it was a great episode.
Tywin sending Joffrey to bed showing everyone (including Joffrey himself) where true power lies.
I like dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion: Tywin hates Tyrion for the simple reason he is a dwarf and thus doesn't fit the image of a LANNISTER but at the same time he does want to hear his opinion because he seems to realize Tyrion's wisdom and cunning.

Then there was an interesting conversation between Bolton and Frey revealing that Frey didn't really thought shit through when he agreed to betray the Starks. Bolton has its bases more covered in that regard. Frey will likely face consequences for his actions.

I don't know how anyone could do anything but love the scene with Balon "The Iron Price" Greyjoy. He's all like "I'm a fucking badass, I pay for nothing with gold, the northeners are soft".
And then the Boltons send him is sons fucking dick. Think Roose Bolton will take your offspring alive as "wards" Mr. Iron Price?
Did the producers actually intend that we care about Yara? As in the way we care about the "good guys"? I didn't get that impression and certainly don't give a shit about what happens to her or Theon as long as it's interesting. To me the point of the scene was more as to how political landscape is changing in the North now that the war is over and Balon's ass is hanging out.

Daenerys remains the weakest point of the show. In my view the problem is she doesn't have anyone to interact with like she did when her brother and husband were alive. Dealing with Viserys and trying to establish a rapport with Drogo were the interesting parts. Obviously Dragons burning shit is also nice but you really need some interesting characters there.

Random thought 1: Don't kill Jon Snow. Please. He's Jesus, he'll save us all from the White Walkers.

Random thought 2: So how big is the actor that plays Bran actually going to get? TV producers might need to magically heal him regardless of what happens in the books or the dude that plays Hodor is gonna get a hernia.

[Scrib]

I'm not sure how a scene between Yara and Balon shows anything but possible hope for Theon (I suppose at this point people will be disgusted enough to be fine with that?) and a sympathetic side to Yara. Changing landscape in the North? Yes, we know already

[Kane Starkiller]

Oh sure we "know" but they still need to follow through on what happens to the Iron Born now.
And sure the scene shows hope for Theon but as I said I don't think that they intended that scene to be emotional in the sense we are rooting for the good guy Yara.
(although Yara does seem to be a better person than Ramsey at least)

[TheHammer]

Well I have to say it was a great episode.
Tywin sending Joffrey to bed showing everyone (including Joffrey himself) where true power lies.
I like dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion: Tywin hates Tyrion for the simple reason he is a dwarf and thus doesn't fit the image of a LANNISTER but at the same time he does want to hear his opinion because he seems to realize Tyrion's wisdom and cunning.

The animosity may have a lot to do with the fact that Tyrion's mother (Tywin's wife) died during childbirth.

Then there was an interesting conversation between Bolton and Frey revealing that Frey didn't really thought shit through when he agreed to betray the Starks. Bolton has its bases more covered in that regard. Frey will likely face consequences for his actions.

I don't know how anyone could do anything but love the scene with Balon "The Iron Price" Greyjoy. He's all like "I'm a fucking badass, I pay for nothing with gold, the northeners are soft".
And then the Boltons send him is sons fucking dick. Think Roose Bolton will take your offspring alive as "wards" Mr. Iron Price?

Did the producers actually intend that we care about Yara? As in the way we care about the "good guys"? I didn't get that impression and certainly don't give a shit about what happens to her or Theon as long as it's interesting. To me the point of the scene was more as to how political landscape is changing in the North now that the war is over and Balon's ass is hanging out.

There aren't many clear cut people to root for, as they all have their flaws and misgivings. It's very much a Greek tragedy, and many of the choices are various shades of grey. Just as Tywin points out, the assassination of the Starks, theoretically, would save thousands of lives. Stanis' intended sacrifice of Gendry would, as he believes, also save thousands of lives. Is it more noble to do a dirty deed for a greater good? Or to stick to your principles even when it leads to greater suffering?

I think you root for whoever you want to root for in this sort of thing. Our feelings towards characters are probably intended to evolve as the story evolves. I believe your second statement about "as long as its interesting" is their prime concern.

[Scrib]

Oh sure we "know" but they still need to follow through on what happens to the Iron Born now.
And sure the scene shows hope for Theon but as I said I don't think that they intended that scene to be emotional in the sense we are rooting for the good guy Yara.
(although Yara does seem to be a better person than Ramsey at least)

At least? Yara is a warrior fighting for her country whatever her liege's issues. Ramsay is a psychopath torturing people and killing his own men because he can. They don't belong in the same discussion.

As for the "rooting for Yara" thing. YMMV. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it beyond "Balon has to deal with Ramsay" and "Yara is coming for Theon" and that some people will be quite fine with this,especially if it means the end of Ramsay (which gives people an alternate reason to root for her). Sure, we haven't seen her in a long time and perhaps it's not been set up enough since for some, but I just don't see the problem.

[Vympel]

Did the producers actually intend that we care about Yara? As in the way we care about the "good guys"? I didn't get that impression and certainly don't give a shit about what happens to her or Theon as long as it's interesting. To me the point of the scene was more as to how political landscape is changing in the North now that the war is over and Balon's ass is hanging out.

Yara is my favorite Iron Islander (there aren't many candidates) so I was happy to see her. I think she's a good person, by GOT standards. Not on a side I agree with though.