Game of Thrones Season 3 (Spoilers)

[Ahriman238]

So the show starts again Sunday night, with an episode titled Valar Dohaeris. Somebody should start a thread.

So it's been a while since I read the books, that's the response to the challenge Valar Morghulis, isn't it?

[Shadow6]

Yes. "All men must die. All men must serve."

It would probably be a good idea to clarify the spoiler scope for this thread. Say, unhidden text for aired episodes and spoiler tagged text for future episodes/books (clearly marked as to when it is from)? Or separate threads for readers and non-readers.

e.g. Spoiler

Nothing bad is going to happen to anyone.

[Mr Bean]

Our previous threads have a simple rule. Anything from the books is spoiled no exceptions. Anything from the show is far game a week after it was run. So Season 1 or Season 2 show no need to spoil anything. Tomorrow's episode keep everything in spoilers until the next episode airs

[Mr Bean]

Well now that we have two threads time to give my thoughts. Spoiler

This episode was kind of all over the place not giving is quick peaks but instead starting and dropping plot threads. Only Danny got context and it looks like they will be developing her time in Astapor more. And thank you GoT giant map collection for letting me be able to spin around and scan the back wall to find out how to spell Astapor. So look like Danny is going to spend more time in the slaver city.

Changes of note, the Mountain gives up Harrenhall and murders his prisoners. And we don't get Arstan Whitebeard it's just out and out hello it's Me. Wonder where they are going with that.

Not many comments this first go around but once again let me say... Tywin is always amazing.

Final note, that was the most uncomfortable dinner I believe in the past century.


OAN look back at the old threads I was wrong how we posted things, do we want to keep everything out of spoilers you wander in here your done?

[fgalkin]

BAH. Where is Strong Belwas? I wanted Strong Belwas, damnit!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Guardsman Bass]

It's good to have the show back.
Spoiler

1. The Tyrion and Jon Snow scenes were my favorite, and particularly the confrontation between Tyrion and Tywin. That's a scene I've been waiting to watch, because it really sets down in concrete how their relationship is. Hines was good as Mance Rayder (I've never liked that name), although he's very different from my mental image of Mance from the books - I always imagined him as a younger man (about Ned Stark's age), with more a good nature belying the harshness and cruelty he's capable of, until he shows it.

2. Robb was alright, although it's interesting that we didn't see any sign of the fall-out of the Freys from him breaking the marriage pact. We did get Rickard Karstark angry about his sons, although I don't know how that's going to play out unless they end up at Riverrun sometime this season.

3. It wouldn't be a Game of Thrones episode without some nudity , although they were obviously poking fun at it with the "don't you want to leave something to the imagination?" remark.

4. I don't like that Barristan was introduced right away, with him vowing himself straight-out to Daenerys (although I liked the scene with the Warlock Child, and the build-up to Barristan's reveal). It does set up an interesting situation where we've got Ser Jorah egging on Daenerys to have him killed while he actually did betray her, but I liked how they interacted in the book, with Jorah's suspicion and amoral politicking contrasting with the hidden "Arstan's" more principled but not stupid recommendations.

5. Good stuff with Sam. I was wondering how they would deal with the Battle atop of the Fist of First Men, and they mostly summarized it with one sound and a short Sam scene. It's a pity, since that night battle is pretty awesome (and Sam has a heroic moment not long after), but they couldn't blow the budget on a battle like that this early in the season.

6. We did get some pretty scenes with the dragons, and the Unsullied scenes were mostly well-handled too. I was expecting Krasynz to kill the Unsullied he called forward (or order him to kill himself), but then again he wouldn't waste a valuable asset like that.

7. Why did they bother having Sansa save Ser Dontos's life if they're just going to have Littlefinger save her from the beginning? Aside from that, it was a good little scene.

8. I loved the scenes with Margaery, Loras, Cersei, and Joffrey at the table. Great stuff considering the limited setting - Margaery subtly needling her brother to complement the Queen on her dress, Loras stiff, Cersei poking her son over his less than heroic behavior, Joffrey uneasy.

9. No Arya or Theon this episode, which isn't surprising. It was packed as is with the characters we saw.

[Guardsman Bass]

I can't believe I forgot!
Spoiler

10. Davos, one of my favorite characters in the books and show. He did a pretty good job with his scenes here, and with his interaction with Melisandre.

11. No Jaime or Brienne, either. I assume that will come next episode.

[Haruko]

Heard it said the episode was rather slow, which I suppose is true, but I rather liked the pacing, and did not at all feel bored.

[Vaporous]

I like how the episode tied together thematically, since the title and everyone's story had to do with different kinds of duty, the costs and rewards of fulfilling or breaking your obligations, etc. It's a major theme of the series too, but this brought service into focus. Maybe they shouldn't have done that in a premiere and it would have been more effective later on? The need to jump around in time and space to remind us of who everyone is and what they are doing threw things off a bit, but it was still pretty good.

[Vympel]

Ahhhh, that was so damn good. The way that episode was structured is how they all should be unless its absolutely necessary - focus on a few storylines at a time, rather than drop in on all the storylines.

How cool did that giant look eh?

And hey, Qyburn introduced this episode.

It was obvious Strong Belwas was going to be cut - he's just an unnecessary character, and actors need to be paid.

[Crown]

EXPOSITION!

Didn't feel it was slow at all, was shocked when it ended, I couldn't believe the hour was up!

[Ralin]

Spoiler

4. I don't like that Barristan was introduced right away, with him vowing himself straight-out to Daenerys (although I liked the scene with the Warlock Child, and the build-up to Barristan's reveal). It does set up an interesting situation where we've got Ser Jorah egging on Daenerys to have him killed while he actually did betray her, but I liked how they interacted in the book, with Jorah's suspicion and amoral politicking contrasting with the hidden "Arstan's" more principled but not stupid recommendations.

[spoiler="Why are these spoiler tags not working?]I don't think him keeping his identity a secret would have worked. Not with them removing both Strong Belwas and him having been sent by Magister Illyrio. What's he supposed to do, be all like "Hey Khalessi, I was just passing by when I noticed you were about to be assassinated using my unexplained super alertness towards threats like that. You seem cool; mind if I hang around and serve you for no reason and without any expectation of reward?"

Replacing the Faceless Man with a Warlock Child worked and was actually kind of clever, since Daenerys wouldn't be on her guard around children.

I wish we'd seen the struggle between Barristan and Jorah. Seeing Barristan smack Jorah down like a child would have done a lot to establish just how badass he is. So far we've heard him talked up a lot in the show, but we haven't really seen a damn thing other than him killing that scarab.

I also think they should have kept him wielding a staff. Smashing the scarab is just a much better image than stabbing it, and more likely to kill it without getting one's hand stung at that.[/spoiler]

[Vympel]

I don't think Barristan keeping his identity a secret would have worked either (nor are spoiler tags necessary about that point IMO - its a road not travelled). What, the audience is supposed to sit there frustrated because they know who the hell it is and are just waiting for the other shoe to drop all season? It would've made poor TV.

[Ralin]

I don't think Barristan keeping his identity a secret would have worked either (nor are spoiler tags necessary about that point IMO - its a road not travelled). What, the audience is supposed to sit there frustrated because they know who the hell it is and are just waiting for the other shoe to drop all season? It would've made poor TV.

Though it's a pity that they probably won't be able to work in more than a toned down version of the fact that Barristan was scoping her out to see if she was batshit insane before pledging loyalty.

[spaceviking]

I'd be curious that had Baristan had a beard and introduced himself as the squire would non readers have recognized him? He was not in the first season all that much.

[Ralin]

I'd be curious that had Baristan had a beard and introduced himself as the squire would non readers have recognized him? He was not in the first season all that much.

Well, TV writers do generally operate on the assumption that their viewers are drooling retards, and this belief is often justified.

That said, off the top of my head I would say that Barristan got just as much if not more screen time in season one as he did in book one. So, who knows?

[Vympel]

I'd be curious that had Baristan had a beard and introduced himself as the squire would non readers have recognized him? He was not in the first season all that much.

If they liked the show they would I suspect. But in this case they threw in the "previously on Game of Thrones" just to be sure.

[Crazedwraith]

Okay, I've only seen the first season of the show but for Swords there's one scene I'd like to know if they've done yet and if they've done it well;
Spoiler

The first confrontation between Tyrion and Tywin, after Tyrion first gets out his sick bed and demands to be recognised as heir to Casterly Rock.

Because Damn that scene was awesome. All Tyrion's efforts dismissed by his father. The worst thing is, in the strictest sense. He's right: Cersei did order the wildfire and so on. It was his attacking Stannis from behind that won the day. But he doesn't see what Tyrion did as hand that took all those elements and wove them together so the City actually held until he could get there.

[Ralin]

Spoiler

Yeah, it was pretty much the high point of the episode, as it should be. They changed some things around, but Tywin's reaction when Tyrion asks for Casterly Rock is almost word for word from the book (as far as I can remember. I haven't actually checked, but I went through that scene on audiobook not long ago)

[Scrib]

I don't think Barristan keeping his identity a secret would have worked either (nor are spoiler tags necessary about that point IMO - its a road not travelled). What, the audience is supposed to sit there frustrated because they know who the hell it is and are just waiting for the other shoe to drop all season? It would've made poor TV.

Just like us knowing that Jorah was a traitor made for bad TV?

[Vympel]

Just like us knowing that Jorah was a traitor made for bad TV?

Knowing someone used to be a spy who will eventually be found out is hardly the same thing. Jorah being found out actually serves a purpose to the story later on. Barristan hiding his identity is nothing but a "aha!" reveal that's fun for the bookreader (because they can't see him themselves) and utterly pointless for a TV viewer, since there is no such moment unless said TV viewer is an idiot who can't see through a beard. It is ultimately unnecessary.

[Ahriman238]

CrazedWraith, the scene was there and it was perfect.

Mance Rayder looked almost nothing like I'd imagined, but he more than made up for it with presence. Even with the one guy questioning Jon and the other hefting an ax menacingly, the eye was drawn to him.

Much enjoyed Joffery's confused and angry sulk in his palaquin, and the awkward dinner scene after. Likewise I enjoyed all the bits between the Unsullied manager and his translator that didn't warrant translation. Perhaps because I could easily see Jorah and Dani indulging in the same sort of thing if he spoke the local tongue.

I see the changes others have mentioned, and I do feel concerned, but I feel like the series has earned the benefit of the doubt. It must be hard enough to keep a show running with so many characters and plot threads in so many places already, without doing 'Arastan' for half this season.

[Scrib]

Just like us knowing that Jorah was a traitor made for bad TV?

Knowing someone used to be a spy who will eventually be found out is hardly the same thing. Jorah being found out actually serves a purpose to the story later on. Barristan hiding his identity is nothing but a "aha!" reveal that's fun for the bookreader (because they can't see him themselves) and utterly pointless for a TV viewer, since there is no such moment unless said TV viewer is an idiot who can't see through a beard. It is ultimately unnecessary.

Fair enough.

[The Yosemite Bear]

given how many of her followers she's killed over the last two seasons, and the sea sickness losses, exactly what level of popularity does the mother of dragons now have?

[Ahriman238]

given how many of her followers she's killed over the last two seasons, and the sea sickness losses, exactly what level of popularity does the mother of dragons now have?

Enough that Jorah feels the need to remind her to show strength?