Nolan and Bale may work on Justice League film.

[Batman]

Yes, there's 18 of them, but they're still tiny.
And while I'm not sure I'd go all the way down to 'Meh', TDKR was easily the weakest of the Nolan movies.
I think taking actual comics storylines (as opposed to story themes, as the first two movies did) was a mistake. And I'm not entirely sure Knightfall and NML (leave alone in amalgamation) were the best choice even if you're dead set on it.

[Havok]

'Meh' Isn't necessarily bad, it is just what i expected. It did the job. It completed the story. It certainly didn't surpass expectations, but it didn't fall short of them either.

It did have the one advantage that no other Batman story has had and that is that he retired. I mean, we have seen him come out of retirement, but to my knowledge there has never been one that showed the retirement, so for me it at least broke some new ground.

[Lusankya]

I think the plot holes in TDKR were more obvious because the story repeats itself. Bruce Wayne starts off broken and without hope, goes back to being Batman... And then promptly gets his back broken and dumped in some random hole in the ground so he can go through the whole process again. It's boring, and when you're bored, it's easier to just sit there and pick apart problems with the movie than it is when it's at least moving along properly. I also got this feeling that the whole movie was just an excuse for Nolan to shoot that last scene - which was a gorgeous scene to end the series with, but I think the "need" to put it there forced Nolan to make storyline decisions that he would have been better off not making.

[ray245]

I share the same sentiment as well. Nolan have mentioned how he was driven to portray the ending scene on screen, however it also seems like he has a very conflicted idea about how to reach the ending scene.

For some reason, he decides to depict the tale of two cities onto the big screen while making his final batman movie.

[Crazedwraith]

'Meh' Isn't necessarily bad, it is just what i expected. It did the job. It completed the story. It certainly didn't surpass expectations, but it didn't fall short of them either.

It did have the one advantage that no other Batman story has had and that is that he retired. I mean, we have seen him come out of retirement, but to my knowledge there has never been one that showed the retirement, so for me it at least broke some new ground.

Depends if you count the first five minutes of Batman Beyond's first episode. Shows the reason for his retirement and him shutting down the batcave.

[Ralin]

'Meh' Isn't necessarily bad, it is just what i expected. It did the job. It completed the story. It certainly didn't surpass expectations, but it didn't fall short of them either.

It did have the one advantage that no other Batman story has had and that is that he retired. I mean, we have seen him come out of retirement, but to my knowledge there has never been one that showed the retirement, so for me it at least broke some new ground.

Depends if you count the first five minutes of Batman Beyond's first episode. Shows the reason for his retirement and him shutting down the batcave.

It's not so much that no Batman story has ever shown him retired as that I can't think of any where he chooses to do so, is happy about it and seems likely to stay that way.

[Batman]

I don't know about 'happy' but I'd argue Batman Beyond had me content to be retired...from being Batman. What TDKR did (and I'm inclined to agree that was never done before), or at least heavily implied, was not just me retiring as Batman, but me retiring from the superheroing business period and for keeps. No me being back at the Batcave telling the new Batman what to do, no Oracleish advisor function, no 'well you know where to find me if you need me' extended vacation-Bruce Wayne died, his iteration of Batman died with him, and the man that used to be Bruce Wayne/Batman just gets on with a completely ordinary life.
Of course it's entirely possible I got bored of that halfway through the credits, got myself a Terry style powersuit, and stepped right back into the game, but I think the intent of the ending of that movie was me remaining officially dead, and remaining out of the Tights Brigade business, for keeps.

[Havok]

'Meh' Isn't necessarily bad, it is just what i expected. It did the job. It completed the story. It certainly didn't surpass expectations, but it didn't fall short of them either.

It did have the one advantage that no other Batman story has had and that is that he retired. I mean, we have seen him come out of retirement, but to my knowledge there has never been one that showed the retirement, so for me it at least broke some new ground.

Depends if you count the first five minutes of Batman Beyond's first episode. Shows the reason for his retirement and him shutting down the batcave.

Why would I? It falls under The Dark Knight Returns retirement type, it's not the point of the story, nor does it even matter to it. The idea that Batman is going to get old and have to retire someday is a given. An underlying theme that ran through all three Nolan movies was that Batman was a finite idea and that it had an end. That was the whole sub-plot with Rachel and Harvey through the first two movies.

[Stark]

The idea of Batman as a movement rather than as a constantly ongoing crusade of utter futility is pretty important; and Wayne choosing to give it up and being forced to by age or a car accident or whatever is very different. It's like saying the Watchmen guys retiring is the same as Batman getting his fucking spine broken - one is making a statement about methods, society, goals, and people... the other one isn't.

[jwl]

They said they were going to make it more "real world", i.e. dark and edger since they first announced they were doing a JLA movie to my knowledge, so the fact Nolan will be involved does not surprise me.

[Flagg]

The idea of Batman as a movement rather than as a constantly ongoing crusade of utter futility is pretty important; and Wayne choosing to give it up and being forced to by age or a car accident or whatever is very different. It's like saying the Watchmen guys retiring is the same as Batman getting his fucking spine broken - one is making a statement about methods, society, goals, and people... the other one isn't.

Well Batman didn't really quit so much as win in the Nolanverse. He retired because he did what he'd sought out to do, he put Gotham back in control of itself as opposed to the Mob. After TDK, Gotham is back in control and could fight off whatever evils beset it, or so Wayne thought. The idea that Gotham was corrupt on both sides of the law was always something present in the movies but wasn't fully explored.

[Flagg]

And to expand on this, Batman was always a symbol in the Nolan movies. He was never meant to be "guy puts on tights and won't stop until he beats up every criminal in Gotham". That's what the cops are for. He had a mission and that mission was thought completed and then he hung up the cape. The problem is that Wayne couldn't stop being Batman even though Gotham didn't need him anymore. TDKR was about him not needing Batman anymore. Because by the end the city is in ruins with escaped convicts running loose and Gotham certainly needs Batman. But Wayne doesn't. So he passes the mantle.

[Havok]

Yeah well comic book Batman is kinda insane and NV isn't. I mean he went to an absolute extreme, but he isn't fucking nuts like regular Bats.

[Flagg]

Well yeah. I mean regular Batman is like Roland Deschain damned to walk the worlds of DC punching criminals for all eternity.

[Havok]

Well he is idiotic to think that he can wipe out all crime everywhere and it has pretty much never been addressed that I know of.

[Batman]

Actually it is routinely stated in the comics that I know I cannot possibly succeed, that it's essentially a never-ending fight that will some day, in one way or other, consume me. Nevertheless, I did choose to fight it (whatever that says about my sanity) and at least until further notice, I seem determined to fight it for as long as I can, on the grounds that while can't save everybody nor stop every crime, the longer I go on, the more I save and the more I stop.
Now the way my asstardic behaviour sees to it that I make that fight as hard on myself (and those around me) as humanly (possibly superhumanly) hard as possible, that's pretty damned deranged.

[Havok]

I didn't say talked about, I said addressed. It is a fucking mental issue that everyone ignores. "I am going to wipe out all crime by being a criminal" I mean, it's a good think Superman and Wonder Woman actually like him and everyone in Gotham is a fucking retard.

[jwl]

Well he is idiotic to think that he can wipe out all crime everywhere and it has pretty much never been addressed that I know of.

In earth-51, batman did wipe out all crime everywhere, or near enough. However, it was due to being far more ruthless than regular batman ever would be.

[Batman]

I didn't say talked about, I said addressed. It is a fucking mental issue that everyone ignores.
"I am going to wipe out all crime by being a criminal"

You have a reading comprehension problem? I know fully well I cannot do that, and everybody who works with me knows I know.
'Doomed to failure, again and again. Because it is a true fool's errand. Because his quest is impossible. Even if the lunatics did not exist, even if men like the Joker and women like Poison Ivy were locked securely away forever...parents would still be murdered...children would still become orphans.
And before someone thinks that the foolish errand makes the one who pursues it a fool himself, let me clarify:
He knows all this better than anyone.
But he does it anyway'. ('Bruce Wayne:Murderer' TPB, pg 8 &9)
So yes, I think the fact that I cannot possibly eradicate all crime by my lonesome has been addressed in the comics, given this is far from the only in-universe comment on my crusade.

I mean, it's a good think Superman and Wonder Woman actually like him and everyone in Gotham is a fucking retard.

At least the Bad Guys in Gotham need to be fucking retards for me to have a fighting chance

[Flagg]

I didn't say talked about, I said addressed. It is a fucking mental issue that everyone ignores.
"I am going to wipe out all crime by being a criminal"

You have a reading comprehension problem? I know fully well I cannot do that, and everybody who works with me knows I know.
'Doomed to failure, again and again. Because it is a true fool's errand. Because his quest is impossible. Even if the lunatics did not exist, even if men like the Joker and women like Poison Ivy were locked securely away forever...parents would still be murdered...children would still become orphans.
And before someone thinks that the foolish errand makes the one who pursues it a fool himself, let me clarify:
He knows all this better than anyone.
But he does it anyway'. ('Bruce Wayne:Murderer' TPB, pg 8 &9)
So yes, I think the fact that I cannot possibly eradicate all crime by my lonesome has been addressed in the comics, given this is far from the only in-universe comment on my crusade.

I mean, it's a good think Superman and Wonder Woman actually like him and everyone in Gotham is a fucking retard.

At least the Bad Guys in Gotham need to be fucking retards for me to have a fighting chance

Everything about this post makes me want to punch you in the throat. You're amusing no one but yourself, which is masturbation. Stop masturbating on me.

[Metahive]

Not only is Batman on a futile crusade, he's also not actually improving matters anyway. Gotham's still the same wretched hive of scum and villainy it was before he showed up. Also, his refusal to get permanently rid of certain crazies like the Joker, despite knowing full well that they'll break out easily and murder again and again makes me question if Batman's even interested in improving matters at all. I begin to suspect he wants Gotham to stay that way because he'd be unable to give any meaning to his life otherwise.

[Ralin]

Not only is Batman on a futile crusade, he's also not actually improving matters anyway. Gotham's still the same wretched hive of scum and villainy it was before he showed up. Also, his refusal to get permanently rid of certain crazies like the Joker, despite knowing full well that they'll break out easily and murder again and again makes me question if Batman's even interested in improving matters at all. I begin to suspect he wants Gotham to stay that way because he'd be unable to give any meaning to his life otherwise.

I always have wondered why Batman doesn't just create his own Batprison to deal with criminals like the Joker. Not killing them I can accept as a trope of superhero comics, but just handing them back over to Arkham...yeah.

[Metahive]

Well, he could borrow Superman's Phantom Zone Projector from time to time...

More seriously, if faced with a grieving relative of someone the Joker just offed for the lulz after breaking out of Arkham for the nth time, what's Batman going to say? "I'm sorry, but your daddy/mommy/brother/sister/daughter/son had to be sacrificed on the altar of my principles and because I need those crazies to run around to feel relevant. No hard feelings, OK?"
I understand why Superman would have a no-kill policy, simply because he's already blessed with god-like powers and probably needs a restraining bolt or two to keep him from going for world-conquest himself, but Batman? Also, if Batman wanted to really improve matters, he'd go after the white collar criminals who are ultimately responsible for creating the circumstances that cause crime to rise. But eh, I guess it's still the old Sherlock Holmes tradition that the only real criminals worth going after are the lower-class ones who rob people with guns instead of government bribes.

[Grumman]

Also, his refusal to get permanently rid of certain crazies like the Joker, despite knowing full well that they'll break out easily and murder again and again makes me question if Batman's even interested in improving matters at all.

Batman is not the one I would blame for this. If it is decided that the only solution to the Joker problem is a bullet in the back of the head, the authorities are just as capable of carrying out the sentence after Batman hands him to them on a silver platter. I do not agree with the idea that Joe Random isn't doing enough by capturing fugitives and handing them to the police and has any kind of moral obligation to play the role of executioner as well.

[Metahive]

Every time Batman puts a criminal in Arkham he's doing so in the full knowledge that not only will Arkham make them crazier and more dangerous, it'll also lose them in no time flat. The GCPD is both corrupt and incompetent thanks to white collar crime (which Batman won't do anything about), so you can't rely on them. So yes, when Batman has the Joker at his mercy for the 1099496583490687345967th time he should really either consider more permanent solutions or admit he's bearing responsibility for everything the Joker will do after Batman refused to resort to these solutions once again.