Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ahriman238 »

I didn't see any sexual tension, but my fiancee actually hid her face near the end of the scene and swore if they kissed it would ruin this and any subsequent movies.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ted C »

I thought there was a bit of a weird romance vibe between Gandalf and Galadriel.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by andrewgpaul »

The trailer implied something of the sort, but thankfully that scene in the movie had a different tone. It looked to me like Gandalf was needing encouragement from Galadriel (who is, after all, one of the oldest things in Middle-Earth, and the one who's dwelt there the longest). Like how Bilbo, Frodo and everyone else looks to Gandalf when things get difficult, presumably Gandalf needs some reassurance himself.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

The two of them were almost holding hands for Christ's sake. There was definitely a weird tone to that scene. The camera did a close up of Gandalf's fingers lingering after Galadriel disappeared (sidenote: apparently she can do that, now?), which was completely unnecessary unless you were trying to paint that characterization
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ahriman238 »

Again just going off memory, but hasn't Galadriel been married since, well, before human civilization? And isn't her husband also good friends with both Gandalf and Cirdan the shipwright?
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Vympel »

Ahriman238 wrote:Again just going off memory, but hasn't Galadriel been married since, well, before human civilization? And isn't her husband also good friends with both Gandalf and Cirdan the shipwright?
For some reason I'm picturing Galadriel and and Celeborn sitting in those awkward chairs on Maury, until Gandalf pops out with his hands up in the air ...
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by El Moose Monstero »

Just an FYI for anyone who gives a shit - I saw it in 2D 24 FPS yesterday, after initially seeing it in 3D 48. Most of my issues with the film disappeared - the colour palette seemed more normal, the CGI scenes lost a lot of their 'fakeness', even the cavern scenes became a bit more dark and atmospheric (though not much). All the issues I had with the additions still stand, although they didn't rankle with me so much on a second viewing - perhaps because the 3D glasses weren't distracting from getting involved in the plot. Was still checking my watch a bit at the end, but those are for reasons I've already ranted about so I won't go further.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Mr. Tickle »

Saw it a few weeks ago

Niggles I had on viewing was Radagast trying to lead the Warg party away from the group before Rivendell. Seriously there was about 4 or 5 shots of him weaving and skimming along with that stupid rabbit sled thing with a bunch of orks behind him, great, then you'd cut to the party running around a rock and seeing him again, and again, and again each time just around the corner from the party. I know it wasn't a book plot point or anything but it got a bit silly at the end, was he trying to fuck Gandalf over on purpose or something?

Also thought that first song with them clearing up Bilbo's house was a bit shit, the stupid "ninja" flicking of plates off the elbows and stuff in particular. Could it be so hard for them to grab them and throw them or something, it just looked silly to me.

Meh, overall 7.5 for the film though. I enjoyed it I guess but without repeating other people's points there was alot of padding (the opening with Bilbo and Frodo was crap frankly) and the tone is a bit patchy, but yea, fine I guess, didn't excite me for the next part as much as FOTR did is my closing comment.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by DesertFly »

I'm actually more excited for the next part, but then that will contain Spoiler
Beorn and the elvish kingdom,
probably my two favorite parts from the book. Spoiler
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Crown »

Ziggy Stardust wrote:The two of them were almost holding hands for Christ's sake. There was definitely a weird tone to that scene. The camera did a close up of Gandalf's fingers lingering after Galadriel disappeared (sidenote: apparently she can do that, now?), which was completely unnecessary unless you were trying to paint that characterization
She didn't disappear, because she wasn't actually there. She was projecting herself or doing that telepathic thing that she did with Elrond in the LotR movies. Not an expert on all the lore that Tolkien left behind, but what is obvious is he did seem very fond of Galadriel and in his appendices and notes he gives her pretty significant power ups.

Think Jackson is equally as enamoured with her (and maybe Cate Blanchett, and who could blame him really) and is also taking pains to demonstrate her assured power. Didn't Tolkien state somewhere in his appendices that for Lothlorien to fall, Sauron himself would have to come to lay waste to it (with the one ring) as Galadriel was too strong?

Anyway, for me, more Cate Blanchett is only a good thing.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Imperial Overlord »

Crown wrote: Didn't Tolkien state somewhere in his appendices that for Lothlorien to fall, Sauron himself would have to come to lay waste to it (with the one ring) as Galadriel was too strong?
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Yes. Lothlorien is attacked three times by forces from Dol Guldur during the War of the Ring and each time turned back "the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself." That doesn't necessarily just refer to Galadriel, but she also razed Dul Guldur after the war, "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits". She's also Elrond's mother in law.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Block »

Imperial Overlord wrote:
Crown wrote: Didn't Tolkien state somewhere in his appendices that for Lothlorien to fall, Sauron himself would have to come to lay waste to it (with the one ring) as Galadriel was too strong?
.
Yes. Lothlorien is attacked three times by forces from Dol Guldur during the War of the Ring and each time turned back "the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself." That doesn't necessarily just refer to Galadriel, but she also razed Dul Guldur after the war, "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits". She's also Elrond's mother in law.
I think it's implied more than once that there are several extremely powerful elven lords left in Rivendell as well isn't it? Not just Elrond and his sons, but umm Glorfindel (who if I remember right could drive off the Nazgul all by his lonesome) and a couple others who fought in the last great war?
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Stofsk »

Knife wrote:It is almost written like the gold and wealth have a drug like effect on dwarves, such as the One Ring was shown to be in the movies.
Not surprising; the dwarves were given seven rings by Sauron (or they were given them by the Elves, I don't remember the lore 100%, but Sauron nevertheless had a hand in their creation), and though they weren't brought under his power when he possessed the One Ring, it's possible that the seven had a corrupting influence over them. Sauron himself felt that the rings were a failure, but ultimately the rings increased the wealth generation Dwarves had for mining for gold and precious gems, and this indirectly brought about their downfall. For the Dwarves of Erebor, Smaug attacked them due to their hoarded wealth; for Moria, the Dwarves' greed for gold forced them to dig too deep, where they unwoke a hibernating balrog.

As for my reaction to watching the film, I quite enjoyed it.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Crown wrote: She didn't disappear, because she wasn't actually there. She was projecting herself or doing that telepathic thing that she did with Elrond in the LotR movies.
Wait, when did she do a telepathic thing with Elrond in the LotR movies? I have no recollection of that.

Crown wrote: Anyway, for me, more Cate Blanchett is only a good thing.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ted C »

Block wrote:I think it's implied more than once that there are several extremely powerful elven lords left in Rivendell as well isn't it? Not just Elrond and his sons, but umm Glorfindel (who if I remember right could drive off the Nazgul all by his lonesome) and a couple others who fought in the last great war?
As I recall, Glorfindel once killed a Balrog. (There's some debate over whether the Glorfindel in Fellowship is the same Glorfindel from the Silmarillion.)
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Omeganian »

Stofsk wrote:
Knife wrote:It is almost written like the gold and wealth have a drug like effect on dwarves, such as the One Ring was shown to be in the movies.
Not surprising; the dwarves were given seven rings by Sauron (or they were given them by the Elves, I don't remember the lore 100%, but Sauron nevertheless had a hand in their creation)
The appendices state that the rings were given by Sauron, but the Dwarves had a tradition that the one held by Thror's line was given by the elves.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by NeoGoomba »

Ted C wrote: As I recall, Glorfindel once killed a Balrog. (There's some debate over whether the Glorfindel in Fellowship is the same Glorfindel from the Silmarillion.)
I'm pretty sure it is. Somewhere, in Tolkein's letters or something, it's stated that Glorfindel and the Balrog killed each other, after which Glorfindel spent enough time in the Undying Lands to be allowed to reincarnate/return to Middle Earth, his powers enhanced somehow by his stay there.

As an aside, I always wondered what Sauron did with the Dwarven rings he was able to recover. Did he distribute them to more "worthy" allies amongst the Southrons/Haradrim? Did the Mouth have one?

Or did he mimic Atari and bury all of his failed rings (there were many more lesser rings he made) in the desert somewhere, building an Uruk warehouse over them all?
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ted C »

NeoGoomba wrote:As an aside, I always wondered what Sauron did with the Dwarven rings he was able to recover. Did he distribute them to more "worthy" allies amongst the Southrons/Haradrim? Did the Mouth have one?
Sauron was probably putting their power to use building up his own resources, although I do recall that he tried to bribe the Dwarf kingdoms with the promise of Rings of Power, such as their kings had once possessed.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Covenant »

Yeah, the Dwarf Rings were used as bribes at least once, but not sure how many he had. Not too many, as several were destroyed in dragon fire.

As for the Galadriel/Gandalf thing, I didn't feel anything sexual there, I felt it as a consoling thing. Specifically, look at the duality of the two:

Galadriel is ageless and beautiful. Gandalf notes this, saying that the Lady of Lorien is untouched by age, unlike him. His clothes are dirty, he's rumpled and tired, he has these little knitted gloves that he must have gotten from some simple farmer sort since they're pretty basic. He's here without his hat on, looking exhausted from being yelled at by his boss for an hour or two while all his buddies get scoffed at. His largest concerns are both mocked and realized in a moment, but the only person who seems to want to console him is Galadriel.

Gandalf is, as remembered, the WANDERING wizard. He's a guy who goes out, sees the world, and cares for the people in it. He's worried about the fate of Middle Earth and this must be exhausting for him, and in this moment I think he had doubts about himself, his mission, and his friends. Galadriel, as a timeless reminder of the world that's passed (and the world he can return to once his burden is lifted) was able to give him a moment's peace and comfort. When she leaves his mind, he's left there with that all-too-tangible memory of her in a darkening room by himself. I think it highlights how lonely Gandalf's quest is. There's nothing sexual. Gandalf is a Maiar who gave up his power to help the people. There's no way she doesn't have a reverence for him, and no way he can't take heart from knowing she's still there, unlike so many of the great personages of the first age.

It is also an opportunity to give an actress some lines to speak, since without her and a few female cameos there would be ZERO WOMEN IN THE MOVIE.

I really liked the movie more on my second watching than the first. My GF wanted it in the big fancy version both times, but the second time I had a much smaller screen to watch it on and it felt so much better. Plus I was able to predict those moments where, in the first movie, it seemed like it was in fast-motion. Way more enjoyable. I also wager there's a ton of deleted scenes.

I'm also guessing that the reason Radagast finds Dol Guldur in this movie is so Gandalf (when he disappears in the next one) can go off and do his Necromancer-hunting business and confront some big baddies.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Crown »

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
Crown wrote: She didn't disappear, because she wasn't actually there. She was projecting herself or doing that telepathic thing that she did with Elrond in the LotR movies.
Wait, when did she do a telepathic thing with Elrond in the LotR movies? I have no recollection of that.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Is that from the extended version or something? I've never seen the extended versions (except for the Fellowship one), and I have no recollection of that scene.
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Re: Hobbit (spoilers, with tags)

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Yes, its in the extendeds.
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