Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Captain Seafort » 2012-07-31 03:19pm

Block wrote:Again, how is that actually important to the story of the Hobbit? I know all of the backstory, I've read all of the books, but frankly the Hobbit does just fine on its own without all that extra stuff. In fact it's probably better without the extra, because it's a well paced as is, the animated version was pretty much perfect as far as the storyline to follow without being slow.


It works fine as it is as a stand alone story, but once you start looking at it in the context of the War of the Ring it becomes far richer for the additional material, because with hindsight you can see the opening moves of the war - key pieces being moved into place or eliminated. It one of, if not the best aspect of the world Tolkein created - individual stories hold up well on their own, but the more layers he added the better they became.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2012-07-31 03:22pm

Block wrote:Again, how is that actually important to the story of the Hobbit? I know all of the backstory, I've read all of the books, but frankly the Hobbit does just fine on its own without all that extra stuff. In fact it's probably better without the extra, because it's a well paced as is, the animated version was pretty much perfect as far as the storyline to follow without being slow.


Its not important to the story of 'The Hobbit', but with the inclusion of the third movie Jackson is creating a 6-movie story that tells the entire 'War of the Ring'.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Block » 2012-07-31 05:22pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Block wrote:Again, how is that actually important to the story of the Hobbit? I know all of the backstory, I've read all of the books, but frankly the Hobbit does just fine on its own without all that extra stuff. In fact it's probably better without the extra, because it's a well paced as is, the animated version was pretty much perfect as far as the storyline to follow without being slow.


It works fine as it is as a stand alone story, but once you start looking at it in the context of the War of the Ring it becomes far richer for the additional material, because with hindsight you can see the opening moves of the war - key pieces being moved into place or eliminated. It one of, if not the best aspect of the world Tolkein created - individual stories hold up well on their own, but the more layers he added the better they became.

Well I guess that's kinda what my objection is, I didn't really care for Jackson's interpretation of the LOTR. Basically everything he changed made things worse than the books, and I'd rather not see that happen with the first non-children's book I ever read.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Captain Seafort » 2012-07-31 05:32pm

Block wrote:Well I guess that's kinda what my objection is, I didn't really care for Jackson's interpretation of the LOTR. Basically everything he changed made things worse than the books, and I'd rather not see that happen with the first non-children's book I ever read.


He made a mess of the second two movies certainly, but the chances of that happening with The Hobbit are a lot less, as the book itself is a lot vaguer, and so lends itself better to a screen adaptation. The applies doubly so to the actions of the White Council during the period, given that they're mentioned only in the form of the vaguest of historical notes.

And if you're talking about the Hobbit rather than LotR when you talk of a "non-children's book", you're sorely mistaken.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby JME2 » 2012-07-31 06:07pm

I'm coming in late, but I have mixed feelings about this.

One one hand, it feels like a money-grabbing stunt. On the other hand, we've come full circle with del Toro's original proposal for the adaption and if Jackson can pull it off, I'd be curious to see it work.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Block » 2012-07-31 07:11pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Block wrote:Well I guess that's kinda what my objection is, I didn't really care for Jackson's interpretation of the LOTR. Basically everything he changed made things worse than the books, and I'd rather not see that happen with the first non-children's book I ever read.


He made a mess of the second two movies certainly, but the chances of that happening with The Hobbit are a lot less, as the book itself is a lot vaguer, and so lends itself better to a screen adaptation. The applies doubly so to the actions of the White Council during the period, given that they're mentioned only in the form of the vaguest of historical notes.

And if you're talking about the Hobbit rather than LotR when you talk of a "non-children's book", you're sorely mistaken.

I mean as opposed to Encylopedia Brown, the Hardy Boys, Curious George, stuff like that.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby LadyTevar » 2012-07-31 07:32pm

I always thought it was rather annoying to have the Purging of the Necromancer as "oh, the elves were off doing this", or a historical note in the timeline. Once the Necromancer was tied to Sauron, it just seemed like a footnote. I have to wonder if Tolkien was going to edit it into its own book.

Although his last books were less novels and more dry history than anything Interesting. :(
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Batman » 2012-07-31 07:41pm

The freaking Lord of the Rings was a trilogy of history books with a narrative tacked on as an afterthought. The only Ring War books that were actually fun were 'The Hobbit', and (marginally) 'The Fewllowship of the Ring'. The second and third movie being far less compelling than the first was essentialy due to the failure of the source material, and even so they managed to be a lot more fun than the books they were based on.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby LadyTevar » 2012-07-31 09:08pm

Batman wrote:I don't want a lecture on the history of Middle Earth. I want the Hobbit.

I don't want a lecture either, I want to see an EPIC.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Gandalf » 2012-07-31 09:32pm

[i]I[i] want a lecture. Maybe with some nice maps and scenes of things happening.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Batman » 2012-07-31 09:37pm

Read the damn books then. They've been there for the taking for half a century or more. When I go to the movies, I want entertainment.And for me, the history of Middle Earth does not qualify as such.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Gandalf » 2012-07-31 09:42pm

Batman wrote:Read the damn books then. They've been there for the taking for half a century or more. When I go to the movies, I want entertainment.And for me, the history of Middle Earth does not qualify as such.


I did read the book. Now I want pictures.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Batman » 2012-07-31 09:46pm

Heck it's your money. I still think the movies would be a lot better off concentrating on the actual novel but as long as nobody's making me watch them who am I to argue if that's the kind of movie you want?
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Gandalf » 2012-07-31 09:48pm

Exactly. ;)

I like exposition in films, and had the first LoTR film just been hours of The Council of Elrond, I would have seen it more than five times. Of course, I also like action. So if a lecture could segue into a fight scene, I'd be set.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Irbis » 2012-08-01 03:13pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Its not important to the story of 'The Hobbit', but with the inclusion of the third movie Jackson is creating a 6-movie story that tells the entire 'War of the Ring'.

Yeah. I'd bet people financing the Hobbit asked him to include cast from previous movies 'for continuity's sake' so that typical moviegoer has no doubts they're the same successful series (and it thus more motivated to spend money). At which point writers went over original material again, found something filmable White Council actually did in the book (thus, less whining about changes from tryhard Tolkien fans) and thrown it in during boring parts of journey to satisfy both requirements.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Mr Bean » 2012-08-01 03:25pm

Okay serious question here
How many years until the ultra special edition hits with all six movies and an extra twenty hours of content, assuming they keep the four discs per special edition formal that's means the six movies will have twenty four blue rays total for a combined total something like six hundred gigabytes of data for six movies. I assume the entire thing will be bundled with the ultra special 25th disc for the 2025 twenty year anniversary.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Guardsman Bass » 2012-08-01 03:35pm

By then, we'll be over-joyed to get it (although probably not in disc format), and we'll be bitching about how it's the real Lord of the Rings film version, and not that crappy 2021 Full-CGI Trilogy Remake.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2012-08-01 05:29pm

Mr Bean wrote:Okay serious question here
How many years until the ultra special edition hits with all six movies and an extra twenty hours of content, assuming they keep the four discs per special edition formal that's means the six movies will have twenty four blue rays total for a combined total something like six hundred gigabytes of data for six movies. I assume the entire thing will be bundled with the ultra special 25th disc for the 2025 twenty year anniversary.


I'd guess 5 years, assuming they're going to be putting out 1 film a year starting december 2013.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Knife » 2012-08-02 10:53am

LOL, I'll start the campaign now, Aragon shot first.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Vendetta » 2012-08-02 11:37am

LadyTevar wrote:
Batman wrote:I don't want a lecture on the history of Middle Earth. I want the Hobbit.

I don't want a lecture either, I want to see an EPIC.


Then you don't want The Hobbit.

The Hobbit is the story of Bilbo going There and Back Again. It is not the story of necromancers or prequels to the Lord of the Rings, and should not be bent out of shape until it is, because that can only dilute the narrative drive of what the story is actually about (hint: It is about an unassuming person finding reserves of character in extreme circumstances). It's not even an epic, despite the events that happen being fit for one, because of the perspective and character of Bilbo.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Irbis » 2012-08-02 03:47pm

Can't the exact same thing be said about LotR, though? Frodo goes there and back again, epic stuff happens in background. Another unassuming person that fails the quest this time around, you can cut, say, Pelennor Fields out the same way Necromancer wasn't shown in Hobbit, little of the above would be lost.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2012-08-02 04:58pm

Irbis wrote:Can't the exact same thing be said about LotR, though? Frodo goes there and back again, epic stuff happens in background. Another unassuming person that fails the quest this time around, you can cut, say, Pelennor Fields out the same way Necromancer wasn't shown in Hobbit, little of the above would be lost.


The thing is, the Hobbit is literally the story of Bilbo, from his point of view. We see almost nothing unless Bilbo sees it or it is directly about him. The Fellowship series follows the adventures of the nine, jumping around extensively and staying on certain characters for an extended period of time.

The Hobbit is about the Hobbit, but the Fellowship is about the entire Fellowship.
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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-08-03 10:00am

I don't think it's invalid for a new depiction of art to change the focus. Jackson likes making cinema epics; if that means telling the story of "Bilbo and the thirteen dwarves and other important stuff happening elsewhere at the same time," then maybe it'll be a good story even if it lacks the homely charm Tolkein wrote into it.

I only feel like complaining about a movie adaptation of a book that reimagines what the book is about if it's bad.

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby FSTargetDrone » 2012-08-05 11:45pm

So a "new" trailer was released within the last day or so. Fair warning, it isn't substantially different from the one everyone has seen already, but there are a few new bits and pieces. And it seems to be available in 3D (click on the gear symbol on the player toolbar). So for the sake of the completionists among us, enjoy:



Here is the first one, if you feel like comparing the two. See if you can spot the differences!

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Re: Peter Jackson- We're going to need a third movie

Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2012-08-06 07:29pm

I've never bought a movie soundtrack in my life, but I'm going to get the one for Hobbit.
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