The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)

[Scrib]

Why would he specifically need that training?

There IS the ninja/magician training that the League gave him in 'deception and theatricality' that helped Bruce use fear so effectively. It wasn't just his combat training that made him such a terror, after all.

This. Batman is Batman because of the resources, the skills and the theatricality that lets him scare the shit out of people with guns before he's thrown the first punch, that's let's him be more than a man. Robin...at best has a good poker face, he doesn't have the martial arts training or even the basic understanding of some of the things that Batman does. He needs training.

One of the weakest parts of the whole movie was the execution of Bane's plan. His ruse of enfranchising the disenfranchised was flat and unbelievable. There was a scene of the rich getting ransacked and the prisoners getting out, but as far as I could tell, it was the prisoners doing the ransacking. The movie didn't show the actual poor citizens of Gotham that Bane claimed to represent. If they actually existed, I'd have liked to see them.

That's because he didn't really give a shit? But I agree, everyone in Gotham disappeared basically and we never saw anyone switch sides. Bane isn't hurting Batman that much if it's the people he put in jail that are killing people. That's just an affirmation of his philosophy.

Batman, for all his techno-wizardry and kung-fu skills, didn't deal with one of the main causes of crime. Yes he smashed the organised crime mobs, but organised crime mobs didn't kill his parents. A common criminal did and common criminals will always exist where inequality does. That was one of Ra's al-Ghul's points in the first movie, if you make someone hungry, they'll steal. Ra's was evil because he only saw the evil in people, to the extent that he tried to make them evil.

While he was Batman Bruce also gave money to the children's homes and such, but his parents' killer did so because of mob influence and the drugs they provided. A lot of people wouldn't be poor if there weren't mobsters providing them with drugs and it's stated that Batman made the supply dry up in TDK, to the point that they had to turn to Scarecrow. If there are fewer mobs and gangs then there are also fewer elements to suck kids up into the criminal life as well.

Talia was full of shit, R'as's plan was based on the fact that Gotham was extraordinarily corrupt and criminal, not that it had criminals at all. That's a side effect of being human, the point is that there should be some system to deal with it, to restore order.Gotham didn't have any such system and would never have gained one if not for the wild card in the bat costume.

Talia may have organised this whole thing out of revenge for her father's death, but I don't think it can be disputed that she also believed in her father's goal of cleansing the city. And if you're gonna cleanse the city, what do you cleanse it of? Wasn't the whole point of TDK that the choice of good and evil rests within the hearts of everyone? When Talia said something like the word 'innocent' doesn't really apply to Gotham, that needs to be justified. It was a missed opportunity I think.

Talia believed in her father's goal because it was her father, not because it was rational. And she turns around and justifies it even if Gotham is cleaner than it ever was. The League doesn't go around blowing up other cities does it? Gotham was extraordinary, now it's not, if she didn't want revenge, she might have looked at things differently.

[Darth Quorthon]

Just got back from seeing it, overall I thought it was pretty good, although not quite as good as The Dark Knight. I didn't find Bane to be as engaging a villain as The Joker, but I guess that's not surprising, given the mask. Bane's voice was more annoying than menacing, IMHO, it almost felt like Nolan was going too far out of his way to avoid too many Darth Vader comparisons. Bane is certainly a more physically menacing villain than the Joker, but he just didn't "grab" me the way Ledger's joker did, plus I thought Talia's reveal and the way Selina just blew him away at the end kind of cheapened him.

Another thing: were Talia and Bane both planning to let themselves get nuked at the end, or did they have an escape hatch, but the Batman/Police attack threw a wrench in their plans? Also, at the end, when Batman flew off with the nuke, was anyone else suddenly reminded of Doctor Strangelove?

Overall, I liked it, and my gripes I think are pretty minor. I thought it was a good close-out to the trilogy. The inevitable reboot is going to have a lot to live up to.

[Alyeska]

Talia wanted revenge. She had no escape plan. She was going to die to make it happen.

Bane, Bane would do anything Talia told him to (other than waiting to kill Batman that is) and was going to for her.

[Jim Raynor]

The way both Talia and Bane were willing to die says a lot about how consumed with vengeance they were. They had no further goal in life than avenging Ra's al Ghul by destroying Gotham and making Bruce suffer. In the theater, I was thinking that they should've had an escape plan to carry on the League's mission after wiping out Gotham. But this provides a nice contrast to Bruce's story arc. They couldn't let go of their demons. Bruce does.

[Block]

Not so good a movie.

That opening section with Bane extracting the scientist from the plane...did we really need that? I think we could have used that 15 minutes on Talia. Great actress, great character, but a little underused I think.

It showcased how far Bane (or rather Talia, since he was acting at her behest the whole time) was willing to go, both in getting himself captured by a CIA agent and then killing said CIA agent. It showed how fanatical his soldiers are. Not only do they resist psychological torture, but they were perfectly willing to leave a man behind to die to ensure their ruse was believable. It showed the resources available to them since they were able to track the doctor down and hijack a plane just to get to him.

Was the scene strictly necessary? No, but it sure helps to set the stage for the scale of the coming conflict.

Plus it was pretty awesome.

That was actually by far the worst part of the movie for me. I HATE when a plot depends completely on the unrealistic incompetence of extremely competent professionals. That scene ends with Bane dead or utterly crippled before they even step on the plane, because you don't accept prisoners without knowing their identities and you certainly don't do it without making absolutely certain they're inescapably hobbled. The rest of the movie was really enjoyable as far as I'm concerned, but that really bugged me.

[Pendleton]

I think the CIA officer was just too hotheaded. He wanted to find out about this Bane and be on his way, and far as he could see, the guy was cuffed. His own hubris and Bane's strength took care of that. That it was Aiden Gillen a.k.a. Game Of Thrones' Lord Bailish made it even better

[Alyeska]

The GCPD is pretty damn small. They had 3,000 officers stuck underground. That was most of the GCPD.

The NYPD has 36,000 officers to control 8 million. The GCPD has something like 4,000 for 12 million people.

[Civil War Man]

I've mentioned this in other parts of the internet where I've talked about the movie, but the thing that bugged me the most was that Gotham felt really artificial. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight did a better job of portraying Gotham as a city. You had people going about their business and crowds reacting to the events going on around them. Gotham in this movie felt pretty empty even before Bane took control. With only a few exceptions like the stock market heist and the football game, everyone you see is either a cop, a criminal, or a Wayne Enterprises board member.

[Pendleton]

I think it felt different too. The lack of Chicago and more use of NYC and Pittsburgh and even LA was quite disorienting. It made it seem like it was too much of another city, rather than Chicago/NYC hybrid. That's really my only pet peeve.

[Gaidin]

The GCPD is pretty damn small. They had 3,000 officers stuck underground. That was most of the GCPD.

The NYPD has 36,000 officers to control 8 million. The GCPD has something like 4,000 for 12 million people.

New York is also more than Manhattan. If you look at the territories Bane marked out, they were on Gotham's Manhattan. Also of note is that there were police officers manning the bridges when the buses tried to cross. I think GCPD was bigger than 4,000. What got stuck under ground was "Manhattan's" contingent. Or so it would seem.

[Pendleton]

New York is also more than Manhattan. If you look at the territories Bane marked out, they were on Gotham's Manhattan. Also of note is that there were police officers manning the bridges when the buses tried to cross. I think GCPD was bigger than 4,000. What got stuck under ground was "Manhattan's" contingent. Or so it would seem.

Plus, in TDK, Lucius mentions spying on 30 million people when talking about the sonar/microphone cell network. I doubt that many live in the central conurbation island as much as I doubt 3,000 officers is for all of Gotham.

[FaxModem1]

Though, this is Gotham we're talking about here. Maybe they're that cheap or corrupt.

[Gandalf]

You know what hit me on the second viewing? Bane's voice is louder than anyone else in his scenes. Other characters in his scenes sound normal, but he's clearly set to "voice over mode".

I presume it's a reaction to the scene they released, where nobody understood a thing he said, but it is weird.

[JLTucker]

You know what hit me on the second viewing? Bane's voice is louder than anyone else in his scenes. Other characters in his scenes sound normal, but he's clearly set to "voice over mode".

I presume it's a reaction to the scene they released, where nobody understood a thing he said, but it is weird.

I think there may be some kind of amplifier. I recall seeing grills on the mask.

Here's the original prologue: http://www.telly.com/H3GG8?fromtwitvid=1

[dragon]

Ok been a long time since I followed the comics but wasn't Bruce and Talia supposed to have a kid at some point?

Also for Bruce not liking to kill people he lobs enough high explosives around and it looked like he killed the driver of the truck at the end. Grand 1 person or a city I'd kill the 1 as well.

[JLTucker]

Ok been a long time since I followed the comics but wasn't Bruce and Talia supposed to have a kid at some point?.

Do you consider this an issue?

[dragon]

Ok been a long time since I followed the comics but wasn't Bruce and Talia supposed to have a kid at some point?.

Do you consider this an issue?

No not in the least bit

[Panzersharkcat]

Ok been a long time since I followed the comics but wasn't Bruce and Talia supposed to have a kid at some point?

Yeah, Damien Wayne. In the comics, though, he was basically drugged and raped, with Damien born developing in an artificial womb.

Bane had been built up as this nearly invincible mental and physical giant...but Batman just took him down by punching him a few times in the mask?

The mask provides him with an anesthetic. Otherwise, he is in absolute agony.

Anyway, one thing I liked about Bane was him deciding to just shoot Batman instead of waiting for the nuke to kill everything like Talia wanted. Fixing Bond villain stupidity on her part. Too bad for him he gets shot by the Batpod, which somehow don't explode and also kill Batman, given that they were shown to blow up huge stacks of cars.

[Gandalf]

I think there may be some kind of amplifier. I recall seeing grills on the mask.

Here's the original prologue: http://www.telly.com/H3GG8?fromtwitvid=1

Some kind of amplifier? Thank you, Doctor Nog.

My concern was the way in which his voice (most noticeably on the plane and other "busy" scenes) has seemingly set itself to loud. He sounds as though he isn't quite in the scene.

[Pendleton]

The mask provides him with an anesthetic. Otherwise, he is in absolute agony.

Anyway, one thing I liked about Bane was him deciding to just shoot Batman instead of waiting for the nuke to kill everything like Talia wanted. Fixing Bond villain stupidity on her part. Too bad for him he gets shot by the Batpod, which somehow don't explode and also kill Batman, given that they were shown to blow up huge stacks of cars.

I believe the mask is supposed to have a voice box as well, which was too bassy in the original prologue release in December.

The Batpod grenades are probably on timer or proximity fuses so you don't accidentally hit something right next to you and blow your wheel and face off.

[Guardsman Bass]

I just saw it again, and it definitely improved for me on re-watch. The pacing didn't really bother me anymore. That said, I did notice a few things:

1. Unless they're planning to make a movie with him, isn't Robin's character more or less superfluous? I can't think of a single point in the movie where his character is indispensable to the plot or story, although Gordon-Leavitt did a good job acting the role. I think the movie would have been better if they had edited it so that he wasn't in it.

2. I'm presuming that Talia knew the basic plan, but was the whole "Gotham Revolution" just a way to get revenge on Bruce? That seems like a very roundabout way of hurting him and destroying Gotham.

3. It seemed way more obvious this time around that Miranda Tate was Talia Al-Ghul. Some of the words she used (including "balance") were echoed by the hallucination of Ras' Al-Ghul, she had the weird mark on her back, her comment about how she was so poor that having a fire was a good day, and the way Bane kept getting the jump on the main characters.

[JLTucker]

1. Unless they're planning to make a movie with him, isn't Robin's character more or less superfluous? I can't think of a single point in the movie where his character is indispensable to the plot or story, although Gordon-Leavitt did a good job acting the role. I think the movie would have been better if they had edited it so that he wasn't in it.

Bruce would not take up Batman again if Blake had not gone to see him about Gordon. Which in turn would not lead to him being broken and ultimately finding himself and realizing what he needs to do to fix the city.

[Panzersharkcat]

2. I'm presuming that Talia knew the basic plan, but was the whole "Gotham Revolution" just a way to get revenge on Bruce? That seems like a very roundabout way of hurting him and destroying Gotham.

I think that was the point, with the whole "slow knife" thing she was going on about.

[Block]

2. I'm presuming that Talia knew the basic plan, but was the whole "Gotham Revolution" just a way to get revenge on Bruce? That seems like a very roundabout way of hurting him and destroying Gotham.

I think that was the point, with the whole "slow knife" thing she was going on about.

She was there to inform Bane of what was going on, so that Gordon and the others could have the illusion of hope but never actually succeed, making it even more painful when they failed.

[The Yosemite Bear]

well either that or Talia is a member of the Atredies family, which I wouldn't put past her either.....