The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers)

[Guardsman Bass]

1. Unless they're planning to make a movie with him, isn't Robin's character more or less superfluous? I can't think of a single point in the movie where his character is indispensable to the plot or story, although Gordon-Leavitt did a good job acting the role. I think the movie would have been better if they had edited it so that he wasn't in it.

Bruce would not take up Batman again if Blake had not gone to see him about Gordon. Which in turn would not lead to him being broken and ultimately finding himself and realizing what he needs to do to fix the city.

I'm not really sure that's the case. As Alfred said, Bruce was sitting around in hiding, "waiting for things to go bad again". If trouble had continued to mount, he would have donned the costume again with or without Blake.

[ray245]

1. Unless they're planning to make a movie with him, isn't Robin's character more or less superfluous? I can't think of a single point in the movie where his character is indispensable to the plot or story, although Gordon-Leavitt did a good job acting the role. I think the movie would have been better if they had edited it so that he wasn't in it.

Bruce would not take up Batman again if Blake had not gone to see him about Gordon. Which in turn would not lead to him being broken and ultimately finding himself and realizing what he needs to do to fix the city.

I'm not really sure that's the case. As Alfred said, Bruce was sitting around in hiding, "waiting for things to go bad again". If trouble had continued to mount, he would have donned the costume again with or without Blake.

Won't that be against the central theme of the movie? The whole point of having that ending was to allow Bruce to finally move on with his life as the Batman. Making him come back simply makes the ending pointless.

[Civil War Man]

Blake would have been a more integral part of the plot if the writers had the guts to actually kill off Bruce Wayne. Though thinking back on the ending, it feels like that's what the writers wanted to do, but someone higher up made them change it because they didn't want the movie to have a downer ending.

As is, the ending is pretty generic Hollywood happy ending. The bad guys die, the good guys win, and none of the main characters really sacrifice anything to achieve that.

Had Bruce died, then they all have to live with the possibility that his death was partially their fault. That the sacrifice wouldn't have been necessary if they had the courage to act earlier. What if Alfred had not walked out on him? What if Gordon revealed that the Dent Act was based on a lie before Bane took over and did it for him? In an ending like that, Blake would be more necessary to the plot, because he'd take up the mantle of Batman out of necessity, in order to restore hope to the city.

[JLTucker]

Batman died. That's good enough. There's no need to kill Bruce. Do you think he doesn't deserve happiness for all the shit he went through, all the growth? The problem with the ending is showing Bruce after Alfred nods. It's like "hey, we may have idiots in our audience!"

[Havok]

Blake still had what made Batman Batman, while Bruce was overcome by it and at the end of the movie, obviously had given it up and moved on in peace. They pretty much beat you over the head with it in the scene when Blake confronts Wayne. Bruce had enough left in him for one more run and that was it.
Blake also isn't tainted by the Dent lie like Gordon and Wayne are.

Is he trained by the League of Shadows? No. Does he need to be now? No. They are dead. Unless there is another Ninja group gunning for Gotham, Blake is fine for the job.
He can be the symbol that Gotham may still need as they no longer have the Dent Act on the books to keep the previous corruption at bay, and he will be dealing with street level thugs and organized crime for the most part with all the gadgets that Bruce left him and that Fox is still fully capable of creating for him.
Keep in mind that John Blake is not Bruce Wayne. He doesn't have to lead the double life. He is essentially a nobody that can devote all his time to being Batman without anyone noticing or caring like they did with Wayne.
Also given what Bruce did (setting up the Bat Signal, getting Blake set up in the cave) I'm sure he set up a means to get the guy trained at least somewhat. Wayne only spent a year or so with the LoS and it's not like they are the only people in the world that know martial arts.

He is also essential to the story because he represents what Wayne and Gordon lost in their own fight against crime and is the catalyst for Wayne and Gordon to get their asses back in gear.

Overall, I really liked the movie. I didn't have a problem with the bad science, or the lack of people that may or may not have been able to turn off the bomb because they wouldn't have been able to get close to it anyway to do it. I enjoyed Talia, even though I knew who she was from the get go, as any fan of Batman should have. Bane was enjoyable and was very competent as a villain and I didn't feel at all let down from Ledger. I even like Catwoman, who is normally pretty blah.

My only real problem was I kept waiting for Leonardo DeCaprio to pop up as I just watched Inception 3 times in 2 days.

[JLTucker]

My problem with Catwoman is that she's just there to create and solve problems. At least it's a step up from Rachel, though.

I have noticed on the interwebs that people don't like how Bane was reduced to a man in love. I actually found that fantastic because we don't need villains that are 100% menacing and nothing else. Humanizing him was quite cool and something new, especially on the heels of Joker.

[Pendleton]

My problem with Catwoman is that she's just there to create and solve problems. At least it's a step up from Rachel, though.

I have noticed on the interwebs that people don't like how Bane was reduced to a man in love. I actually found that fantastic because we don't need villains that are 100% menacing and nothing else. Humanizing him was quite cool and something new, especially on the heels of Joker.

I had no problem with Kyle (hey, the C-word is never uttered once). I think the Nolanverse interpretation is probably the best by a country mile, and I also agree with you on Bane. The idea that he was just some sociopathic brute is too 1D next to one where actual feelings other than anger are shown. It's a nice contrast to The Joker's total apathy, chaotic episodes and playing of people against one another by manipulation.

Blake would have been a more integral part of the plot if the writers had the guts to actually kill off Bruce Wayne. Though thinking back on the ending, it feels like that's what the writers wanted to do, but someone higher up made them change it because they didn't want the movie to have a downer ending.

As is, the ending is pretty generic Hollywood happy ending. The bad guys die, the good guys win, and none of the main characters really sacrifice anything to achieve that.

Had Bruce died, then they all have to live with the possibility that his death was partially their fault. That the sacrifice wouldn't have been necessary if they had the courage to act earlier. What if Alfred had not walked out on him? What if Gordon revealed that the Dent Act was based on a lie before Bane took over and did it for him? In an ending like that, Blake would be more necessary to the plot, because he'd take up the mantle of Batman out of necessity, in order to restore hope to the city.

I disagree. Bruce had to sacrifice his entire life up until the end of TDKR. He lost the girl he planned to marry (twice, in a way) and suffered at the hands of some truly despicable people. That he didn't go out in a fireball saving the city is really beside the point. His work to create the Gotham of post-Dent out of the corruption of the kind The League Of Shadows was aiming to destroy, is testament to this.

[Scrib]

My problem with Catwoman is that she's just there to create and solve problems. At least it's a step up from Rachel, though.

I have noticed on the interwebs that people don't like how Bane was reduced to a man in love. I actually found that fantastic because we don't need villains that are 100% menacing and nothing else. Humanizing him was quite cool and something new, especially on the heels of Joker.

Was Bane in love though? I see that a lot and maybe it's just me, but he seems to have had a platonic relationship with Talia. Otherwise, I doubt she would keep referring to him as "friend" the last time they would see each other. At the very least, he's like 20 years older than her and protected her when she was pretty young.

I didn't see what it took away from his character tbh. There's no indication it was anything less than a joint plan. And Bane having some humanity was nice. Regardless, Bane did all the heavy lifting, nothing that happened can change that it was Bane robbing the stock exchange, it was Bane breaking Batman's back.

[Pendleton]

I imagine there could have been a romance there, even if it comes off more as a business partnership in the film. There's a kindred spirit vibe either way, regardless of whether they were actually intimate as a normal couple. Bane had carte blanche with the gritty stuff, while Talia was organising a coup from within.

I'm sure she enjoyed the stabbing, at least, even if it wasn't quite the original plan of having Wayne in the hole and watching powerlessly.

[JLTucker]

Was Bane in love though? I see that a lot and maybe it's just me, but he seems to have had a platonic relationship with Talia. Otherwise, I doubt she would keep referring to him as "friend" the last time they would see each other. At the very least, he's like 20 years older than her and protected her when she was pretty young.

You can love someone without sex, no? It's shown to be platonic. He did it out of love, care, and devotion for her. His entire back story is damned good, in my opinion, and the revelation regarding the child in the pit makes the humanizing even better.

[Havok]

Keep in mind that Bane was already cast into the worst prison on the planet to be left to die BEFORE he helped and saved Talia. Ras found him irredeemable, so the complexity of the character is pretty interesting in that he was probably already a brutal, sadistic, psycho yet he was able to find one spot of redemption in protecting Talia, but even in that he was still cast out of the last fringe piece of society that may accept him in the LoS.

He found purpose and drive in Talia and even though he had been excommunicated by him, in Ras.
He was her Alfred.

[Guardsman Bass]

Speaking of Alfred, if they ever decided to continue with Blake as the new Batman with a different director/producer, then he's got a new potential protege. Blake could even have his "day job" be helping the boys at the boys home in Wayne Manor.

It's probably not going to happen that way, but it's a thought. More likely they'll just revive Batman again, and do the whole origin story all over again.

[Grumman]

It sounds like they might have borrowed from Bane's portrayal in Secret Six, where he has a similar relationship with Vandal Savage's daughter.

[PainRack]

I don't understand something. How would revealing Harvey Dent nature as Two Face threaten the Dent Act?

[The Cooler King]

I don't understand something. How would revealing Harvey Dent nature as Two Face threaten the Dent Act?

I'm not a lawyer or anything, but this is how I see it.

Revealing Harvey's crimes would be a problem because it would threaten all the convictions he had against the Mob and organized crime in general up to that point. Any competent defense attorney could get almost any of those convictions thrown out. They could even attack the Dent Act itself, because it was based on a lie. Fruit of the poisoned tree and all that.

[PainRack]

It might have slipped by me, but was Bruce actually crippled in the beginning, and if so, why? Was that supposed to be an injury sustained from his fall at the end of The Dark Knight? At first I thought that it was a total front meant to deceive people after Bruce decided to become a recluse. But then I saw him limping around with his cane in private, when he was alone or with Alfred. They even showed him resorting to some kind of exoskeleton on his leg. Then after getting his back messed up by Bane (an injury which he recovered rather quickly from), Bruce just trained himself back so that he physically seemed good as new.

There's a lot of shitty mind over matter thing, but the injuries described PERFECTLY fits an atheletic who has been taking lots of abuse. You don't even need to be a street fighter to have racked up the injuries that was described to Bruce and Batman has been doing lots of crazy stunts on top of that. Just that whole glider thing and landing on your knees(ignoring the physics that makes this impossible) would had been sufficient to fuck your knee up.

There are reasons why paratroopers don't have a long active military career and also why a pilot is only allowed to eject from his cockpit twice.

The GCPD is pretty damn small. They had 3,000 officers stuck underground. That was most of the GCPD.

The NYPD has 36,000 officers to control 8 million. The GCPD has something like 4,000 for 12 million people.

They had 3 thousand SURVIVORs. The movie doesn't show it but with that kind of explosion and being stuck downstairs for more than 2 months? I'm surprised that there were more than 100 survivors. Especially since its unbelievable that they got the kind of food supplies they require. Or air. Or medical attention.


You can't just cram 3 thousand people into the sewers, blow up the tunnels around them, throwing tons of sharpnel, dust, and stuff, and in the SEWERs, where rotting matter release methane and you know, underground, poor air circulation and expect them to survive for that long without a ton of help.




I'm..... shocked at Rush claiming that Bane and etc are showing the evil side of Romney. The movie seems to be suggesting that any revolutionary movement could be hijacked by evil dudes, who are more bent on vengenance than justice.
The movie pacing was also good enough that while I saw the plot twist, I just didn't make the mental leap to realise that Ras Al Ghul child was a girl , the movie swept me along in that assumption.
My...... only gripe would be in Batman retaking back the city. To be honest, I'm not sure how one could had done it after such a momentous buildup, but the execution was very Deus ex machina .

I don't understand something. How would revealing Harvey Dent nature as Two Face threaten the Dent Act?

I'm not a lawyer or anything, but this is how I see it.

Revealing Harvey's crimes would be a problem because it would threaten all the convictions he had against the Mob and organized crime in general up to that point. Any competent defense attorney could get almost any of those convictions thrown out. They could even attack the Dent Act itself, because it was based on a lie. Fruit of the poisoned tree and all that.

Hmmm..... I see

[Erik von Nein]

It's not like the Dent Act is even really expanded upon. It could be anything.

I just wish the revelation of Harvey Dent went somewhere other than letting Blake guilt-trip Gordon for a scene.

[Nephtys]

The one TRULY silly moment I think I felt that I couldn't just pass off (such as 200 cops chasing Batman into an alley... and meeting a VTOLcraft?) was when the cops marched in parade formation, in the street (none on the sidewalk), charged a position with armored cars and assault rifles, and engaged in a fistfight. And won. What the hell was that?

Way too obviously symbolic, forced, etc.

[Guardsman Bass]

After the second time through, I'm still kind of surprised how . . . low key Bruce's reaction is to finding out that Alfred lied to him about Rachel and burned her confession letter.

[DarkArk]

I'm still kind of surprised how . . . low key Bruce's reaction is to finding out that Alfred lied to him about Rachel and burned her confession letter.

I think he was in too much shock, and he might not have fully have believed Alfred.

My major problem with the film in large part had to do with the pacing and the whole rebuilding batman twice thing that was going on. Having Batman go into retirement was frivolous, did nothing for the overall story, and we had it again in the Pit. Bane breaking the Bat should have been done in the first 45 minutes or so, with Batman getting himself together in the Pit for a bit longer, then Batman spending some more time in Bane's Gotham. Would have really liked to have seen more of Bane's occupation of Gotham overall. They were some of the best scenes in the film (death or exile!), and they really did seem to be mostly glossed over.

Honestly thought that something was missing with Bane. I liked the actor, I liked the costume, he was suitably terrifying and a real threat, just something missing I can't put my finger on. Talia al-Gul I thought was very well done. I went into the film knowing who she was supposed to be and still because of the way the film was made it still surprised me.

Also setting the film in a pseudo-Chicago was better in TDK than in Rises with NYC. Minor nitpick I realize since the plot more or less demanded to be set on Manhattan, but I wish they had made it less obviously New York.

Bat-pod continues to be the most awesome land vehicle ever.

Liked it when I saw it, was heavily critical for a while, but now I think I like a lot of what Nolan did and will likely go back to see it again at some point. I still don't think it's as good as TDK, but that's really not saying much. Both the Joker and Two-Face were very hard acts to follow.

[JLTucker]

It's not like the Dent Act is even really expanded upon. It could be anything.

I just wish the revelation of Harvey Dent went somewhere other than letting Blake guilt-trip Gordon for a scene.

The Dent Act does not give parole to any prisoner. This is the oppression bane was talking about outside of Blackgate. Some who may have been rehabilitated have no way of getting out.

Also, some fans are upset about the changes in Bane's voice during the prologue. There was a video comparing the voice but it was removed. You know, copyright and all that bullshit for a 3 minute clip.

[JLTucker]

Never mind. Here's the comparison video. Vimeo never appears to care about copyright.

http://vimeo.com/46416782

[Vympel]

Just came back. Pretty awesome end to the series, though I must say the entire "Bruce Wayne is broke!" subplot - and the endgame of that subplot (again, "Bruce Wayne is broke!") rubbed me the wrong way. It just seemed unnecessary. And the Robin thing at the end - how is Robin going to fight crime when he's got no damn money? All that shit costs money to maintain. Maybe Fox will help him out.

[JLTucker]

Just came back. Pretty awesome end to the series, though I must say the entire "Bruce Wayne is broke!" subplot - and the endgame of that subplot (again, "Bruce Wayne is broke!") rubbed me the wrong way. It just seemed unnecessary.

He's broke in more ways than one. It's a theme.

And the Robin thing at the end - how is Robin going to fight crime when he's got no damn money? All that shit costs money to maintain. Maybe Fox will help him out.

That is likely the case given that we see Fox checking over the equipment and learning that the autopilot was fixed.

[Erik von Nein]

The Dent Act does not give parole to any prisoner. This is the oppression bane was talking about outside of Blackgate. Some who may have been rehabilitated have no way of getting out.

Ah, right. But considering they all picked up a gun and started with the killing and looting I gotta wonder just how parolable these guys were. Again, more missed opportunities.