Armour of Game of Thrones (TV show)

[LadyTevar]

I thinkit boils down to economics of South vs North when you get to armor.

Plate takes a lot of blacksmithing skills to hammer the shapes and make them fit comfortably. It takes a lot of time to do, and longer to learn how to do it properly so the edges don't catch. Larger pieces sometimes need water-hammers or shaping wheels to get it belled correctly. In short, plate is expensive to get, own, and maintain.

Mail just needs lengths of approprate weight wire, a crank to spiral it around, and then snips to cut the spirals into open rings. After that, it's just a matter of sitting down and interweaving the rings with a pair of pliers. The patterns are simpler than crochet or knitting, anyone with the hand-strength can learn, and it's something you can do anywhere you can sit down and get your pliers and rings out. Repair is simpler as well: remove the rings and weave in more.

[The Yosemite Bear]

great now I'm immagine Stark bannerman grannies.....

[spaceviking]

I thinkit boils down to economics of South vs North when you get to armor.

Plate takes a lot of blacksmithing skills to hammer the shapes and make them fit comfortably. It takes a lot of time to do, and longer to learn how to do it properly so the edges don't catch. Larger pieces sometimes need water-hammers or shaping wheels to get it belled correctly. In short, plate is expensive to get, own, and maintain.

Mail just needs lengths of approprate weight wire, a crank to spiral it around, and then snips to cut the spirals into open rings. After that, it's just a matter of sitting down and interweaving the rings with a pair of pliers. The patterns are simpler than crochet or knitting, anyone with the hand-strength can learn, and it's something you can do anywhere you can sit down and get your pliers and rings out. Repair is simpler as well: remove the rings and weave in more.

What is the skill level/time to produce Lorica segmentata in comparison to mail? I was kinda thinking the low level lanister armour might be closer to that.

[Lord Revan]

IIRC Lorica Segmenta was rather quickly replaced by chain mail either because chain mail was easier to make or was simply more practical.

[The Dark]

I thinkit boils down to economics of South vs North when you get to armor.

Plate takes a lot of blacksmithing skills to hammer the shapes and make them fit comfortably. It takes a lot of time to do, and longer to learn how to do it properly so the edges don't catch. Larger pieces sometimes need water-hammers or shaping wheels to get it belled correctly. In short, plate is expensive to get, own, and maintain.

Mail just needs lengths of approprate weight wire, a crank to spiral it around, and then snips to cut the spirals into open rings. After that, it's just a matter of sitting down and interweaving the rings with a pair of pliers. The patterns are simpler than crochet or knitting, anyone with the hand-strength can learn, and it's something you can do anywhere you can sit down and get your pliers and rings out. Repair is simpler as well: remove the rings and weave in more.

What is the skill level/time to produce Lorica segmentata in comparison to mail? I was kinda thinking the low level lanister armour might be closer to that.

Lorica was more expensive to make and harder to maintain than maille. It also required more consistent blacksmithing - a ring of maille with a flaw would be relatively easy to detect, could be discarded, and even if it was accidentally used, likely wouldn't compromise the armor's integrity all that much. A flaw in a strip of segmentata would be harder to detect and could cause far more damage to the armor if it gave way. Some lorica also used case hardening, which is much more difficult than simple forging at that technology level.

[Vympel]

A bit more House Greyjoy / Iron Islands:



Black Lorren is presumably too fat for the Greyjoy cuirass but he does sport a gorget, otherwise he just has the typical drab Iron Islander clothing. The helmet is interesting - hardened on the top and front, but with a more flexible cloth material covering the back and sides. The kraken decoration is cut out of the leather facing of the breastplate (presumably covering steel?). Its very haphazard though and in some instances is barely recogniseable as a kraken at all.

The shield is probably the most elaborate and finely made item they have.

[Lord Revan]

Knowing how unwilling the Iron islanders are about paying for anything (or "paying the gold price" as they say it) it doesn't seem odd that chest emblem seems like it was done by someone who either didn't know how to do it or just didn't care enough to do a good job (in-verse that is).

[spaceviking]

Would the salty sea air play a role in their crappy appearance?

[LadyTevar]

Would the salty sea air play a role in their crappy appearance?

The Vikings in our own history had no trouble protecting maile from sea salt, so I have to wonder if it's more a matter of Leather is cheap and plentiful, and weathers the wet better. I can't tell by the picture, but the cuirasses could be boiled leather. Boil it in oil and it hardens as well as waterproofs. I would not be surprised to find the jerkins underneath are oilskin.

That could also explain the cock-eyed kraken, as you can only shape boiled leather while it's fresh out of the oil. Once it cools, it's inflexible.

[LaCroix]

They also might have used THAT kind of leather. Seafaring folk loved it for being waterproof.

[LadyTevar]

They also might have used THAT kind of leather. Seafaring folk loved it for being waterproof.

So's seal-skin, and it's easier to obtain.

[Vympel]

The blu-ray rewatch continues, and with it, more things I didn't notice earlier (these aren't blu-ray rips obviously):

House Karstark men (either side of the Stark man - another with mail underneath, by coincidence):



Lord Karstark:



Robb Stark's helmet:



In the shot of Jaime being pushed throug the camp after being recaptured, there's a lot of variety. Various types of helmet / plate combinations, as well as a definite House Umber man, appearing to wear the heavy cloak the Greatjon had in Season 1. Then there's this guy (the one who tells Lady Stark about what's going on):

[LadyTevar]

Hmm.... Karstark pictures have quilted padding and what looks like leather scale armor. Lord Karstark has a maille drape/gorget, that might be a full maille coif as there are many examples of coifs extending that far.

Once again, some of what looks quilted might be brigandine, which was leather reinforced with metal strips in side.

[Vympel]

EDIT: First look at House Bolton helmet (the guy holding the Stark banner):



Ser Jeremy Mallister (of House Mallister, riverlords sworn to the Tullys):



Ser Jorah's new threads - a bear for House Mormont on the abdomen, Targaryen styling (note dragon tails) on the pauldrons:



Unsullied:



Unsullied closeup:

[Thanas]

I don't really get the unsullied armor - looks like they tried to copy Rome with the helmet (makes sense given the backstory) but the facemask is only attached via a tiny strip of metal which also works as the noseguard. That doesn't make much sense. Likewise, they completely left the right side of the chest uncovered, which suggest they might fight in close formation, hoplite style. That they don't carry swords seems to reinforce this.

[Esquire]

If I remember correctly, that's got textual support - somebody notes that while Unsullied are sold in small numbers as bodyguards, etc, what they're really for is mass formation fighting.

[Thanas]

Yeah I know, but the armor/equipment is kinda crappy for such highly trained guys. No real armor to speak of, one shield that isn't very large either and a spear that seems to be about average hoplite spear length. No pikes like a sarissa, no swords, no real armor you need if you don't go sarissa fighting style.....those guys do not seem credible threats against mail and plate armies.

[Mr Bean]

Yeah I know, but the armor/equipment is kinda crappy for such highly trained guys. No real armor to speak of, one shield that isn't very large either and a spear that seems to be about average hoplite spear length. No pikes like a sarissa, no swords, no real armor you need if you don't go sarissa fighting style.....those guys do not seem credible threats against mail and plate armies.

It's ceremonial armor I'm guessing then because book Unsullied are solid without armor but full weaponry. It's mentioned by the slavers that they don't sell them armored up and ready to go just fully armed with spears, shield and short sword. HBO show unsullied who knows.

[Vympel]

In the episode, as in the books, they note the Unsullied are trained with "the three spears" and the shortsword. I expect we'll see them using shortswords.

[Thanas]

Yeah, but short swords suck against medieval plate armor as well.

[fgalkin]

Yeah, but short swords suck against medieval plate armor as well.

Good thing they don't fight against opponents in plate then. Light infantry seems to be the order of the day in Essos.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Vympel]

Further, most Westerosi infantry and cavalry in the show don't wear plate either. It seems to be restricted to only rich knights and lords, with the exception of the Lannister armor, which whilst obviously not plate, is still going to be effective against shortswords.

[Knife]

True, but they always describe the Unsullied with a spiked cap, this isn't what I pictured. Not horrified or anything, just not what I pictured in my head.

[Vympel]

True, but they always describe the Unsullied with a spiked cap, this isn't what I pictured. Not horrified or anything, just not what I pictured in my head.

If you go back to the scene where Dany is introduced to Drogo in episode 1 at Illyrio's manse, you'll see some shirtless dudes with spiked caps - these might have been meant to be Unsullied. I didn't picture this either (in the book their clothing is described as a quilted tunic), but I like this take on the spiked cap way better.

[LadyTevar]

The helm in the first picture is factual -- French design iirc. It was lampooned in MontyPython & the HolyGrail where the French Knights wore it.

Ser Mallister is wearing quilted armor, possibly leather, with metal shoulders & arms. Obviously not that good against a thrust.

Ser Jorah looks to be wearing studded leather. Wish I could get a better look at it

The UnSullied... yeah... I know they're based on the Jannisaries, but there were better armies to base them on.
That shield might look small, but looks are decieving. The shape makes the shield lighter, and less arm movement is needed to move the shield defensively. The spike mean shield bashes hurt more, while also deflecting blows just like angled helms do. The ranks they're standing in give a hint of how the shields could interlock in wall formation -- give the front men short spears/swords and the ranks behind those long spears and they can do a lot of damage. The back of the helms give great neckprotection, the chin strap is adequate, the studded leather covers the basics and leaves the arm free for sword & spear work, but it's clear they would be at a disadvantage outside of formations.