You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Ralin » 2012-06-03 08:04am

Elfdart wrote:Solution: Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion and the kids are locked up. Tywin rebels? Off with their heads.


May not be as easy as you think. The show hasn't really shown us, but Jaime is a really good fighter and there's a decent chance of him escaping.

Plus without proof that they committed incest or something (which could be tricky to get for similar reasons) you can expect people to howl bloody murder, and not just the Lannisters.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2012-06-03 08:32am

I'm still trying to figure out how to send Joffery off where the little sociopath can be managd if not eliminated without pissing off the little monster's grandpa or actual father, the catincident should be proof enough that Cersie's eldest is not a human being. Would it be wrong to send Joffery to lead the Clegore bros, Bolton, Theon to invade the eastern continant?
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Revy » 2012-06-03 10:40am

Ralin wrote:May not be as easy as you think. The show hasn't really shown us, but Jaime is a really good fighter and there's a decent chance of him escaping.


Have Ser Barristan arrest him. If anyone could take Jaime in a sword fight, it'd be him.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Ralin » 2012-06-03 11:10am

Revy wrote:Have Ser Barristan arrest him. If anyone could take Jaime in a sword fight, it'd be him.


Yeah, that's what I thought too. Though my impression is that they're probably close enough in skill that it could easily go either way.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Esquire » 2012-06-03 11:16am

The thing is that Jaime's skill with a sword only matters if the guy arresting him lets it. Send Ser Barristan for authority but twoscore goldcloaks for the actual dirty work.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Irbis » 2012-06-03 12:48pm

Ahriman238 wrote:So we have very limited gunpowder production. What else can we come up with to confound the Walkers, and everyone else who wants a shot at the Iron Throne? I'm thinking it may be a decent time to set aside some able-bodied men and have a Royal Army Corps of Engineers started. :twisted:

Upon thinking about it a bit, while Tercio-like army is a good way to transform peasant recruits into knight/zombie killing force, there is faster and cheaper way, too - Wagenburg. If simple rebels could own quite a few knight led crusades, using nothing more sophisticated than simple guns and crossbows, billhooks and halberds, they can give a zombie army good trashing, too :lol:

Combine that with caronades (a whiff of obsidian grapeshot, anyone?) and we don't even need a wall. But that reminds me, how exactly they built 700 feet high, 300 miles long wall? :wtf:

Revy wrote:Have Ser Barristan arrest him. If anyone could take Jaime in a sword fight, it'd be him.

Wasn't he showing signs of age already? Making it unreliable? Also, Goldencloak rush might backfire as well, they shown signs of easy bribing in the book, by Lannisters, no less, so it might not be a good idea.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-06-03 12:56pm

Combine that with caronades (a whiff of obsidian grapeshot, anyone?) and we don't even need a wall. But that reminds me, how exactly they built 700 feet high, 300 miles long wall?


Giants. And Magic, most likely.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Mr Bean » 2012-06-03 01:01pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Combine that with caronades (a whiff of obsidian grapeshot, anyone?) and we don't even need a wall. But that reminds me, how exactly they built 700 feet high, 300 miles long wall?


Giants. And Magic, most likely.

Magic, lots of magic also giants but mostly magic. Remember the wall is pure Ice and supposedly half a football field thick.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Ahriman238 » 2012-06-03 04:54pm

Really, given how much discussion we've had on this board about how to modernize medieval, early gunpowder or fantasy kindgoms most of us could work minor miracles. Except in this scenario we're only the nominal king of a tattered confederationf of princedoms, surrounded by experienced schemers and have exactly no time to stop a civil war and prepare our kingdom for long years of deprivation and siege by a powerful magical army.

EDIT: @ Irbis, a wizard did it.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Thanas » 2012-06-03 05:48pm

Ahriman238 wrote:Really, given how much discussion we've had on this board about how to modernize medieval, early gunpowder or fantasy kindgoms most of us could work minor miracles.


No, most of us would utterly suck due to lack of the social skills and charisma to pull it off.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Mr Bean » 2012-06-03 06:35pm

Thanas wrote:No, most of us would utterly suck due to lack of the social skills and charisma to pull it off.

So when exactly does Robert Baratheon well known drunk, wifebeater demonstrate excellent social skills and charisma? (In the lets say last five years of his rule) Keep in mind who your replacing, your not having to step into Renlys shoes here.

Your the King, divine right to rule and all that, getting Ned to rule for him while he drank and whored himself into a grave was Roberts stated plan for ruling the Kingdom.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Thanas » 2012-06-03 06:38pm

Mr Bean wrote:
Thanas wrote:No, most of us would utterly suck due to lack of the social skills and charisma to pull it off.

So when exactly does Robert Baratheon well known drunk, wifebeater demonstrate excellent social skills and charisma? (In the lets say last five years of his rule) Keep in mind who your replacing, your not having to step into Renlys shoes here.


It is a difference of ruling within the stated order, or by trying to change it and revolutionize it, which is what introducing gunpowder etc. would mean.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2012-06-03 07:13pm

so any comments of my suggestion of starting a crusade against the eastern contenant with the stated goal of bringing Dearias back in chains, but the actual goal being to rid Westewros of Jeoffry and all the other sociopathic baby raping monsters?
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Chirios » 2012-06-03 07:19pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:so any comments of my suggestion of starting a crusade against the eastern contenant with the stated goal of bringing Dearias back in chains, but the actual goal being to rid Westewros of Jeoffry and all the other sociopathic baby raping monsters?


Problems:

1) Money

2) Would start a war with the Free Cities that you couldn't win.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Mr Bean » 2012-06-03 07:21pm

Thanas wrote:
It is a difference of ruling within the stated order, or by trying to change it and revolutionize it, which is what introducing gunpowder etc. would mean.

Ah I thought you meant in general trying to do anything as Robert.
Yes trying to bring gunpowder into the mix is just asking for trouble without everything running your way.
Maybe after the coming Winter you could think about it.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby streetad » 2012-06-03 07:26pm

I think financial reform is going to be more important than introducing things like gunpowder. A feudal economy is going to leave us constantly in hock to the likes of Tywin Lannister whenever we want to do ANYTHING. The State needs its own money if we are going to make serious reforms.

Looking at history we really have two options - try and call a parliament to allow us to bypass the major nobles and tax the middle classes directly, or come to some formal long-term arrangement with one or more of the Essos banking houses. I don't think Westeros is ready for the first option; especially with our current precarious grasp on the throne. Perhaps we can set up something like Edward I had with the Florentine banks - effectively selling them the licence to tax export trade in exchange for credit whenever we need it.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2012-06-03 07:59pm

Note: Also make it easier to Adopt, and with a nominal fee to the crown, transfer wealth to the adopted heir, so that folks can recognize their many illigitamate children, not just send them off to the north or something, Oh and Renly needs not get married to a woman, he can ADOPT an Heir, and forge a political alliance that way too....

---edit---
still working on how to deal with sociopathic cat killing 13 year old monster
Long term must do
1. fortify the North (with what I don't know)
2. seriously deal with that back stabber Littlefinger
3. utterly break and re-populate the Iron Isles (those wharfes would make for a good trade fleet instead, but we just have to pretty much wipe the place off the map first...
4. Do something about all these fucking babyrapin monsters that Westeroes seems to breed like lice....
5. figire out some wa of harnessing hte middle class....
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby madd0ct0r » 2012-06-03 10:27pm

Stannis as hand would be intrestng.

is there any truth in Vaery's statement that Stannis's 'God of Light' is an evil God? - Given the counterpart (Ice Dude) seems to deal in baby eating and zombies I'm not sure how it could be worse.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Vaporous » 2012-06-03 11:14pm

Well, if you wake up as King Robert one morning, and have some of your councilors killed and disinherit your kids and divorce your wife and send an army to the wall to fight grumkins and snarks, doesn't someone try to dethrone you on ground of mental incompetence or insanity, and then have Tywin take over the regency? I mean, we know that there are ice demons and zombies north of the Wall, but everyone else thinks those are fairy stories. With the crown in debt as it is, we can't really afford to do anything major there without looking like lunatics or idiots. That doesn't mean nothing can be done for the Watch. You'd just have to be quiet about it and not do as much as you might like.

Killing Dany or Viserys or both at some point with a Faceless Man is an obvious choice, if I really want them dead. Vicerys is going to get himself killed anyway, and Dany can wander around the Dothraki sea raising the Stallion Who Will Mount The World for all she likes.

Having Jaimie and Cersei caught abed is the best solution to that problem, but it would have be arranged so that their guilt is undeniable, or at least obvious even to Tywin. I'm not sure how to pull that off. They have to be caught by someone who's integrity won't be impugned. Also, Jaimie will probably try to murder whoever it is, so it should be someone I can afford to lose. Kevan Lannister, maybe.

Alternately, If I'm feeling kind and stupid, I try to be less of a bastard than Robert, manage a truce with Cersei as best I can, and see if Joffery is redeemable. He's a product of a paranoid arrogant mother who spoils him and a drunken absentee father. Book Joff is like 12, there's no reason to assume his character is unalterable. And if it is, well, accidents happen and Tommen is a good kid.

Littlefinger is too dangerous to leave alive. I don't care how good he is with money. There has to be someone is westeros who can count without also being a Bond villain. Varys too. Can't take the risk. Maybe I'll make Tyrion master of coin. Tywin will never love him and Cersei won't like it, but they'll be happy managing the Crowns finances.

You don't have to worry about the Iron Islands unless the war breaks out, which is won't because Baelish and Varys are dead.

Making Stannis Hand might be more trouble than it's worth, unless I've dealt with Cersei and the Lannisters already. Maybe I'll pick a Tyrell bannerman like Matthias Rowan to keep the balance of power.

I ignore Dorne.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2012-06-03 11:27pm

so far the berst bond villian job I could come up with, was take Joffery out on a hunt to "Toughen him up" and well remember what happens with the boar, oh while out on htis hunt arrange for Tywin to check in on Tommen and sister and well find out that which I already iknow. Tywin will so so furious, who knows what he will do to his own kids for threnening his psition like that....

even better fake out the hunt and show up moments after tywin while he's still confronting Jaimie and Cersie with Joffery and the kings guard, but that would only work in a bards song....
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Irbis » 2012-06-04 04:00am

Ahriman238 wrote:EDIT: @ Irbis, a wizard did it.

Did he stuffed it with a lot of unobtainium rebar, too? :lol:

Thanas wrote:It is a difference of ruling within the stated order, or by trying to change it and revolutionize it, which is what introducing gunpowder etc. would mean.

I don't see how researching ways to produce gunpowder and making a handful of light cannons would upset anything until I need to use them, at which point order went out of window anyway.

As for ruling bit, that's exactly why my plan was not to become Borgia 2.0 everyone would see as a threat, but instead ask my retainers to defuse situation with religious movements and task Stannis with making Lannisters/Tyrells crash against each other, removing 2 largest threats to both of our positions, while making army not reliant on nobles so I could safely limit their influence in decade or two. I don't see what else can be done, all the plots to kill "my" children or to have Jaime discovered risk backfiring horribly and forcing Jaime/Cersei to try to off me on the spot. And to be honest, I'm not sure if they don't have enough influence in local troops already to not pull it off.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Guardsman Bass » 2012-06-04 04:12pm

Vaporous mentioned it first, but as Robert, you have to be careful with what you decide to do. If you suddenly decide to disinherit your wife and (presumed) legitimate children off of your belief that they're bastards, everyone is going to think that you've gone bat-shit crazy and turned into Aerys III. That alone could make the inevitable civil war a risk for you getting exiled or killed.

It also doesn't help that pre-possessed Robert spent 10-15 years on his ass whoring, drinking, and generally avoiding any and all responsibilities of Kingship. Cersei and the other power players already have you beaten in terms of informants and loyalists - even the City Watch's loyalty is questionable under the circumstances.
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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Raw Shark » 2012-06-04 04:23pm

madd0ct0r wrote:Stannis as hand would be intrestng.


Yeah, for a minute or two, until a strange-bedfellows coalition of brothel owners and lords devout in the Faith has him assassinated...

I'd make Renly my Hand, stat. He's got the diplomatic chops to actually run shit without pissing everybody off, and could help bring the Tyrells on-side. I'll need a new master of Laws (yes, everybody who wants to put Renly on the Small Council - he's already been there for years) but that Ned Stark guy would fit the bill nicely.

Stannis will, of course, go totally apeshit about the Renly thing unless I give him something prestigious, but hey, Warden of the East just opened up.

madd0ct0r wrote:is there any truth in Vaery's statement that Stannis's 'God of Light' is an evil God? - Given the counterpart (Ice Dude) seems to deal in baby eating and zombies I'm not sure how it could be worse.


We don't really know, canonically. Popular fan theories include, "They're both evil," "They're both sanity-blasting Cthonian forces that don't give enough of a fuck about humanity to intentionally wipe us out, but tend to leave us as roadkill in their wake when we get too close; the Life Magic of the Children of the Forest is the happy medium between the extremes where we can exist," and, "There are no gods in this setting, only wizards who believe or claim to believe that they act in their names."

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby fgalkin » 2012-06-04 04:27pm

Varys lost his junk to a sorcerer who needed it as a component for a spell, so he's kinda biased against the supernatural.

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Re: You are Robert Baratheon, first of your name

Postby Chirios » 2012-06-04 06:27pm

Vaporous wrote:Killing Dany or Viserys or both at some point with a Faceless Man is an obvious choice,


Dangerous. Dany very well might be the Prince Who Was Promised.


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