GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

[Mr Bean]

1. He reported to Robert on Dany and left lots of key details out, he sent assassin only one after him and warned Jorah of what was going to happen and how
2. You are correct Eddard could start a war, you forget however that Eddard was being saved, he was being sent to the wall except Joffery counter-manded the deal and ordered him killed on the spot. Eddard at the wall is useful because Varys could count on his honor binding him there (Being Ned and a Northman) giving Mormont a good successor even if he like everyone else in the south does not really care much for the north.
3. General war was predictable with Robert dead, you forget what started the war was not Ned being dead but Renly going to Highgarden and naming himself king, then Ned dies then Stannis declares. You might say that had Ned been sent north Renly would have not declare himself King but I don't buy that. You don't flee the capital, ride to Highgarden and start negations with the Tyrells because you want lower tariffs to the Storm-lands.

[Rogue 9]

I doubt Renly would have done that without Eddard casting doubt on Joffrey's heritage. We know Stannis wouldn't have. Varys helped put Eddard on the trail of the evidence, of course, and it was thoroughly obvious what he'd do with the information... but what if he'd finally pieced it together when Robert was present in the capital? The swift capture of Jaime and Cersei by an alive (and incensed) Robert Baratheon may have provoked the Lannisters to rebellion... but it would be against a kingdom united against them, which wouldn't make for sufficient chaos. I don't know, for the whole thing to have been deliberate seems like a hugely risky gambit; there are far too many places for it to go wrong.

[Mr Bean]

How exactly would Varys stop Robert from getting offed except by telling Robert himself (In which case Tywin WILL go to war, but it will be a short war without any allies) or murdering the Lannisters, it's obvious from what Varys tells Eddard is that Cersi has been trying since Eddard hit Kings Landing.

[Rogue 9]

Because Ned could have warned Robert had the timing of his realization been different. That's what I said; as a destabilization scheme it suffers the flaw of Varys not being able to control the timing of events once he involves Eddard.

[Mr Bean]

Because Ned could have warned Robert had the timing of his realization been different. That's what I said; as a destabilization scheme it suffers the flaw of Varys not being able to control the timing of events once he involves Eddard.

You forget his little talk with Illyrio, he did not want ned there but thought killing him early would be worse since he could not control noble Ned.

[Mr Bean]

Episode 19(9 in season) was @$@$ amazing

Blackwater was great, the fighting was great. The acting from everyone was great and the substance was fantastic even if underused. No brief tastes of it before the FAE ship bomb and Bron's amazing shot. Let me just say that spending the entire episode here was a wonderful change of pace. I wish they would have modified the opening to reflect that, just a zoom in on Kings landing with slow booming drums, maybe get a view of the important gates and landmarks in Kings Landing.

There was no chain there was no wrecks and hulks fleet which is a shame and the fighting was chaotic at times. There was no almost rape by the Hound.

[Vympel]

Haven't seen the episode yet, but did Ser Ilyn have Ice? And if so, was it identified?

[Mr Bean]

Haven't seen the episode yet, but did Ser Ilyn have Ice? And if so, was it identified?

It was not identified but I believe he had Ice.

[Atia]

Davos was gonna be the hand, but then he took an arrow to the sea...... yeah I'm not proud about that joke either but I'm leaving it here.

Anyways Tyrion, he likes to drink, he's good defending a siege, and he uses an Axe he only needs a beard and he'd be the the most stereotypical dwarf ever. I liked the episode overall, the fire on the backwater was glorious and though I was disappointed by a lack of chain I kinda figured it wouldn't be there when we didn't see any scene of Tyrion talking with the back smiths of the city. The battle was pretty niftily done too on a TV budget, I was worried it would be like a low quality history channel reenactment or something, with a dozen or so guys fighting each other in a blurry little tizzy of action.

My only complaints I guess are the fact it seemed ever ones sword was sharp as a light-saber and cleaving men in two, seriously can a steel sword slice a mans head open like Stannis did in the battle? Also the ending felt a little rushed rushed ending of the battle though I guess they were going for disorienting or something. Did anyone else catch who was dragging Stannis away at the end? Were they his men or some of the Lannister/Tyrell forces?

[Guardsman Bass]

Wow, that was pretty damn good. The "night battle" aspect of it worked to amplify the intensity of the whole thing, as well as make the fire look awesome (particularly the explosive wildfire . . . Jesus). The music synced well, we got lots of great Bronn, and so forth. Honestly, there's not much I can say - they did a fantastic job with the resources they had to do it. The only real flaw I can think of was the Varys exposition at the beginning, which seemed a little rushed.

I noticed the lack of the chain, but that's okay. The chain doesn't really make much sense without the whole sequence of Stannis' fleet going up the river to get trapped, which would have been too expensive to film.

They called it "Blackwater", and that's exactly what it was. No side-tracks to any of the non-involved characters, nothing that really would have stopped the pace cold. This was George R.R. Martin's episode, too - it will be very interesting to hear his commentary when the Blu-Ray Boxset comes out.

EDIT: Cersei was much better in this episode than she was during the battle in the book. She managed to strike good notes of touching, fearful, angry, and suspicious (we see her prying into Shae's Lorathi roots).

[Guardsman Bass]

Fuck, I'm gonna watch it again. I just watched it on HBO GO, so I can do that.

I just watched the preview for Episode 10. The House of the Undying sequence will hopefully be great, and not seem totally anti-climactic coming after "Blackwater".

[MrDakka]

Did anyone else catch who was dragging Stannis away at the end? Were they his men or some of the Lannister/Tyrell forces?

I assumed it was his men, because he kept yelling, "Keep fighting".

[Haruko]

Did anyone else catch who was dragging Stannis away at the end? Were they his men or some of the Lannister/Tyrell forces?

I assumed it was his men, because he kept yelling, "Keep fighting".

I just assumed that if they were not his men Stannis would have sliced their heads off, too.

Also, I am so sad that we did not get to see Joffrey meet Stannis for his epic battle of strength and cunning.

[Guardsman Bass]

Did anyone else catch who was dragging Stannis away at the end? Were they his men or some of the Lannister/Tyrell forces?

I assumed it was his men, because he kept yelling, "Keep fighting".

Stannis was a bloody badass in this episode - first on to the beach, first up the ladder, fighting several guys at once. We never get to see that in the novels, since all of his personal fighting takes place "off-screen".

[Scrib]

Best episode EVA. Honestly by the end I wasn't sure who I was rooting for, Stannis was such a badass, so was Tyrion, and Loras and Tywin bursting in like Big DAmn Heroes was just fucking awesome. The Rains of Castamere were also a nice touch.

Sansa also had her good moments with Joffrey and the way she was subtly sniping at him was hilarious. Speaking of Joff, I actually liked him this episode, as cunty as he seemed, the actor and the writing did succeed in showing that this was a little boy despite all his big talk, and scared out of his wits. I'm also glad that they kept in Cersei's insane plan to pull him out. There's been too much whitewashing of stupid actions this season.
Spoiler

Also, did Sandor try to kill Bronn as part of Cersei's power play to get rid of Tyrion, because I can't see any other reason for him to be such a dick to someone who he had barely shared a few words with

[Scrib]

Best episode EVA. Honestly by the end I wasn't sure who I was rooting for, Stannis was such a badass, so was Tyrion, and Loras and Tywin bursting in like Big DAmn Heroes was just fucking awesome. The Rains of Castamere were also a nice touch.

Sansa also had her good moments with Joffrey and the way she was subtly sniping at him was hilarious. Speaking of Joff, I actually liked him this episode, as cunty as he seemed, the actor and the writing did succeed in showing that this was a little boy despite all his big talk, and scared out of his wits. I'm also glad that they kept in Cersei's insane plan to pull him out. There's been too much whitewashing of stupid actions this season.

Spoiler

Also, did Sandor try to kill Bronn as part of Cersei's power play to get rid of Tyrion, because I can't see any other reason for him to be such a dick to someone who he had barely shared a few words with

[Scrib]

Double post.

[Vympel]

It was not identified but I believe he had Ice.

Nah, he didn't.

But what a fucking awesome episode of television that was.

[jollyreaper]

Storywise, I enjoyed the episode a great deal. In terms of particulars, I don't think fireships really work that way. I thought they worked best when directed at ships in a confined space, either a river or harbor.

Concerning the fighting, are those swords or lightsabers? I don't think you can cut the top off of someone's head like it's Fruit Ninja. Or the Imp taking off someone at the knee. I've read historic accounts of horses getting their necks half-chopped through with halberds and battle-axes taking off limbs.

The particulars of the wall defense also raise questions. I know that castles under siege would sometimes send out raiding parties to destroy siege equipment, counting upon stealth and surprise to take the besiegers unawares. But would they do this during a direct assault on the walls? Seems like giving up a significant advantage there.

I think I'm going to have to read up on classic sieges and see how they were fought. I know most of them were just sitskriegs while they starved out the defenders. Disease caused more deaths than the fighting ever did.

[Vympel]

Concerning the fighting, are those swords or lightsabers? I don't think you can cut the top off of someone's head like it's Fruit Ninja.

IIRC you can, but your sword better be sharp. I say IIRC because I'm pretty sure they did much the same thing on Deadliest Warrior to an accurate gel-mold of a human head (including skull encased within it and brain).

[jollyreaper]

Ok, that's the kind of evidence I'm looking for.

It's hard to separate fact from fiction with this sort of thing. Lots of learned people were saying that knights couldn't get on their chargers without cranes but then we see youtube vids of people in accurately reproduced armor turning cartwheels.

One of the head scratchers is the claim that the sword was the least common weapon on the medieval battlefield. Took too much metal. So while the sword might be common kit for a Roman legionnaire, only the nobles would have them in the middle ages. Men-at-arms who weren't noble would likely have pole-arms. At least that's what the books say. Never seen it depicted as such in film.

[Rogue 9]

One of the head scratchers is the claim that the sword was the least common weapon on the medieval battlefield. Took too much metal. So while the sword might be common kit for a Roman legionnaire, only the nobles would have them in the middle ages. Men-at-arms who weren't noble would likely have pole-arms. At least that's what the books say. Never seen it depicted as such in film.

This one is true, but not solely for the reason you cite. Using a sword is a specialized skill that takes training and practice. On the other hand, given a stick with a pointy object on one end, it's easy to go out there and try to poke someone with it. Given that you're fighting mostly with peasant levies, you will arm them mostly with spears. That the spear is also more easily made and therefore cheaper is a bonus.

[Meest]

Thought it was great until Tyrion came out and saved the day in 10secs, that was way rushed. They come out of a secret tunnel attack the ram then get charged from the side by Stannis' forces? What were those guys doing before? Then to top it off they in turn get charged from the same direction by Tywin and Loras though I had to watch again to tell who was coming. The white horse helped but can see non book viewers getting all this info way too fast again making the end rushed and confused, Tywin says they win is all they get. Hope next episode they explain the Tyrells coming on board.

Stannis fighting in that same wall corridor didn't help either, sure showed his bravery but he was stuck there the whole fight. The budget also showed at that point, they should have had Tyrion push them to the water to give a better impression and also makes a better spot for Moore (or whoever that Kingsguard was) to try and kill him.

Other than that it was good like the Maegor's Holdfast room, how detached from the world they all were with info filtering in and the Queen unraveling reality for them all. The violence was a good way to mask the budget, can believe massive man like the Hound with a greatsword and room can chop people up especially if lightly armoured conscripts. Would have been cool if Stannis had his sword lit up though it was doing a nice job slicing tops of heads.

[TheHammer]

Thought it was great until Tyrion came out and saved the day in 10secs, that was way rushed. They come out of a secret tunnel attack the ram then get charged from the side by Stannis' forces? What were those guys doing before? Then to top it off they in turn get charged from the same direction by Tywin and Loras though I had to watch again to tell who was coming. The white horse helped but can see non book viewers getting all this info way too fast again making the end rushed and confused, Tywin says they win is all they get. Hope next episode they explain the Tyrells coming on board.

It seems to me that many of these episodes do need to be watched more than once to catch the little details. In your case, you may need a third viewing... Tywin and Loras clearly came from the opposite direction of Stannis forces. The lion banner was a clear indicator of whose side they were on. As for the Tyrells coming on board, they really had little choice considering they'd thrown in against Stannis and had no real contact with the Starks. Baelish was brokering that deal over the course of a few episodes.

[Sriad]

I've caught myself whistling "Rains of Castamere" a few times today.

Spoiler

Also, did Sandor try to kill Bronn as part of Cersei's power play to get rid of Tyrion, because I can't see any other reason for him to be such a dick to someone who he had barely shared a few words with

Good catch, I wasn't even thinking about that when I watched it happen. Might also have a little to do with why he finally said "fuck all of you" when Bronn saved him from the burning man.