GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I'm just sad that Lady Wiskers and Ser Pounce didn't show up in that episode being the little prince's personal "Lions of Lannister"
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Bright »

Rogue 9 wrote:This one is true, but not solely for the reason you cite. Using a sword is a specialized skill that takes training and practice. On the other hand, given a stick with a pointy object on one end, it's easy to go out there and try to poke someone with it. Given that you're fighting mostly with peasant levies, you will arm them mostly with spears. That the spear is also more easily made and therefore cheaper is a bonus.
Most of the city defenders were Gold Cloaks though, who can be presumed to have some formal training.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Spoonist »

Bright wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:This one is true, but not solely for the reason you cite. Using a sword is a specialized skill that takes training and practice. On the other hand, given a stick with a pointy object on one end, it's easy to go out there and try to poke someone with it. Given that you're fighting mostly with peasant levies, you will arm them mostly with spears. That the spear is also more easily made and therefore cheaper is a bonus.
Most of the city defenders were Gold Cloaks though, who can be presumed to have some formal training.
Uhm they are a city watch. Why you don't give a city watch swords even if you could afford it is that you don't want them to kill the rabble, instead with a spear you can use it as a staff and beat/push/poke people without killing them too much. Then only if they become too troublesome do you switch to the business end and stick it to them.
But why for the love of JRRT are you trying to instill reality into fantasy?
If you truly wish to ruin this with such then there are hundreds of things to nitpick before coming down to swords and spears.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

besdies with spears and shields you can pretend that your a greek phalanx and push, push, push them into the burning waters....

then yell MADNESS THIS IS KINGS LANDING
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:I'm just sad that Lady Wiskers and Ser Pounce didn't show up in that episode being the little prince's personal "Lions of Lannister"
They don't appear until book 4 ;). (And it's the type of thing that they'll almost definitely cut - they'll want to downplay the wholeSpoiler
"relationship" /betrothal
as much as possible anyway for obvious PR reasons).
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I just thought cute little kitties would be nice for a change...
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by TheHammer »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:I just thought cute little kitties would be nice for a change...
I thought everyone was complaining about too much frontal female nudity as it is...

:o
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Haruko »

When Ned died in season one people everywhere were disgusted.

I didn't see the big deal.

But after seeing Blackwater, I realize that it would have been so awesome to see the camera cutting between Stannis and Ned fighting side by side owning everyone.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Though having not read the books yet (I'm making my way though 25 years of diskworld at the moment,) I found out through freinds that Joffry's little brother owns cats, (I just didn't know that said felis domestics don't show up for another couple seasons), I am now mentally seeing the kid as growing up to be a serious cat stroking mastermind... (probably taking lessons from uncle Tyrion)
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by fgalkin »

Tyrion's preferences lie for an entirely different kind of pussy.

Have a very nice day.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

yes, but he's good at being a mastermind, and we know how cat owners and their right hand kitties go....
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by jollyreaper »

Rogue 9 wrote:
jollyreaper wrote:One of the head scratchers is the claim that the sword was the least common weapon on the medieval battlefield. Took too much metal. So while the sword might be common kit for a Roman legionnaire, only the nobles would have them in the middle ages. Men-at-arms who weren't noble would likely have pole-arms. At least that's what the books say. Never seen it depicted as such in film.
This one is true, but not solely for the reason you cite. Using a sword is a specialized skill that takes training and practice. On the other hand, given a stick with a pointy object on one end, it's easy to go out there and try to poke someone with it. Given that you're fighting mostly with peasant levies, you will arm them mostly with spears. That the spear is also more easily made and therefore cheaper is a bonus.
Weren't the levies also basically fighting in their own clothes and usually with their own farm tools? The scholars go back and forth as to how disorganized things were back then. Some sources say the levies were a hopeless mess and the nobles were too stupid to use them effectively and others will say they made for decent scratch forces. I guess it depends on where and when we're talking about, it is a big stretch of time.

While I did see pikes in the orc armies in Rings, most of the actual fighting was still with sword-like weapons. Can't remember the last time I saw a fight between two guys with pole-axes.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rogue 9 »

jollyreaper wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
jollyreaper wrote:One of the head scratchers is the claim that the sword was the least common weapon on the medieval battlefield. Took too much metal. So while the sword might be common kit for a Roman legionnaire, only the nobles would have them in the middle ages. Men-at-arms who weren't noble would likely have pole-arms. At least that's what the books say. Never seen it depicted as such in film.
This one is true, but not solely for the reason you cite. Using a sword is a specialized skill that takes training and practice. On the other hand, given a stick with a pointy object on one end, it's easy to go out there and try to poke someone with it. Given that you're fighting mostly with peasant levies, you will arm them mostly with spears. That the spear is also more easily made and therefore cheaper is a bonus.
Weren't the levies also basically fighting in their own clothes and usually with their own farm tools? The scholars go back and forth as to how disorganized things were back then. Some sources say the levies were a hopeless mess and the nobles were too stupid to use them effectively and others will say they made for decent scratch forces. I guess it depends on where and when we're talking about, it is a big stretch of time.

While I did see pikes in the orc armies in Rings, most of the actual fighting was still with sword-like weapons. Can't remember the last time I saw a fight between two guys with pole-axes.
I saw some last week, but that was SCA, so perhaps it doesn't count. :P

As for the quality of the levies, it does depend greatly on where, when and perhaps more importantly who. The medieval period is a huge span of time and Europe is very large and had thousands of nobles of varying degrees (and varying education, military and otherwise) at any given time.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

In King's Landing's case, I'd expect the Watch to be unusually well-armed and equipped. It's the seat of power for the King, as well as the biggest city in Westeros (possibly the richest, too, since it's relatively close to the rich Free Cities).
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

It's a pity that "Blackwater" had to be shown on Memorial Day weekend. Its ratings went down from last week, which isn't surprising - the article says that overall TV viewership drops 20% over the Memorial Day Weekend, and last year's episode at the same time was a drop from the previous week.

Not that the first-run showing ratings matter that much, since HBO doesn't sell ads. More important are the overall ratings after second-run, HBO GO, etc, which are sitting above 10 million (third-highest in HBO history).
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

To add, it's not that far from True Blood's second season, cross-platform rating average of 12.4 million. TB is the second highest rated HBO show after the Sopranos.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

just so long as Northman doesn't show up duriing the final episode of the season for a crossover publicity thing...

than again Skarrsgaard would be nice to see on something besides true blood....
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/06/black ... more-18317

LOL @ the HBO exec urging Neil Marshall to do full frontal nudity :)
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Chirios »

Vympel wrote:http://winteriscoming.net/2012/06/black ... more-18317

LOL @ the HBO exec urging Neil Marshall to do full frontal nudity :)
LOL, absolutely brilliant.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Mr Bean »

Last episode is starting and I've got my cable company on speed-dialer so I can cancel afterwords. Wonder what the House of the Undying is going to give us.

Last episode go

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Mr Bean »

Last episode was mixed one
By plot line

I LOVED the resolution for Theon, I loved the little scene I loved the hornblower hate but most of all I fucking loved Theon's rousing speech which gets stone cold interrupted.

I liked the Kings Landing wrap up and the send off we get to all the characters and the fact than Sansa is about to be Royally fucked both figuratively and implied literally (Oh creepy, creepy Littlefinger)


I liked the bits of the House of the Undying that we get, and I loved the resolution for the entire thing with the vault and the key and the betrayal.

I like the stuff in the north both because it was slow and because we had three blasts and the Halfhand fight was short and sweet.

I hated the rest of the House of the Undying, we get no prophesy, we get no visions and we get no SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, the only time it's mentioned in the series, the big giant plot clue of foretelling to explain why Roberts war kicked off, because of the Song and they never @#$# mention it. Not to mention the other things, the false hope, the frigging Eldritch horrors, the beating heart and the blue vampires. I also hated the resolution because the fire effects looked... horrible.

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vaporous »

without the prophesy stuff the house of the undying is completely pointless. "oh look i found major exposition" is the only thing Dany accomplishes the entire book, so taking that out is kinda dopey.

was slightly annoyed by having littlefinger come out and say "I'll take you home". the reveal in ASoS is one of my favorite parts of the story, so making him even more obvious feels pointless. Why even have Dontos in the show if you aren't going to use him for the single thing he actually does?
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Freakin called it about 3 blows :D. (The wrinklyness was odd. And spear design ALL wrong).
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

so did the bastard son of bolton burn down winterfel?
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:so did the bastard son of bolton burn down winterfel?
It looks like they left it ambiguous as to whether the Iron Men burned it down on their way to turn Theon over to the Boltons, or whether Ramsay's men did. They had to do something like that, since they haven't cast Ramsay Snow yet.

I liked this episode, although there were parts that disappointed a bit.

1. The House of the Undying could have been better, but I guess we shouldn't have expected anything too impressive - most of the "wow" budget went into the awesome "Blackwater". I was disappointed that we got no hints of the prophesy, but I do like how Xaro ended up imprisoned inside his own empty vault (fitting with the whole "power is wherever people think it is" theme of the season). He's not necessarily dead either. He shows up briefly in A Dance with Dragons, and it would be amusing if he showed up again, having been released from his vault. What surprised me about the Daenerys plot-line is that Ser Barristan wasn't introduced at the end, as he was in the books. I thought for sure he'd show up at the end in some way, but he didn't.


2. Tyrion had only a few scenes, but they were good (as usual). His moment of glory has come and gone, but he can't move on - he's got to stay and play the Game of Thrones, because for the first time in his life he's had a taste of power, and he really, really enjoys it. So he'll stick around, against Shae's wiser advice, until he has no choice but to move on. It's interesting to contrast that with Daenerys, who is moving on (although she later gets stuck again).


3. Show-Theon continues to be bloody impressive. He's a far more interesting and pathos-filled character than his smug, arrogant counterpart in the books, at least before A Dance with Dragons. The point about how he's been a prisoner all his life was driven home well, right to the end of his story in this season when he ends up as a prisoner of the Boltons because of the betrayal of his own men (after he gave a damn epic speech).


4. Robb completes his stupid, reckless decision to throw the Frey Alliance to the wind so he can marry Not-Jeyne-Westerling (and I was wrong about her being revealed as Jeyne Westerling). I also understand why they had Robb there to react to Catelyn's decision to let Jaime Lannister loose in contrast to the books - it was so that when the time came for Robb to follow his heart into that stupid, stupid place, Catelyn's words of caution would seem hypocritical to him.


5. While I didn't mind the actual death-scene of Quorin Halfhand, I didn't like the lead-up to how he died. The whole scene with Jon killing him was supposed to be a test of Jon's willingness to forsake his vows as a Night's Watch member to Mance Rayder (and to secretly win his trust in order to get back to the Wall and report, as the Halfhand was planning). I think it would have had more impact if Jon had been forced to fight and kill him to prove his "loyalty", instead of getting the matter taken out of his hands.


6. Sam's storyline - and the season - ended as I expected it would end: the three horns heralding an attack on the Night's Watch force camped on the Fist of First Men. That sets the Season Three premiere up for a great night battle against the Others/Walkers and their army of corpses. I wish they had shot it at a darker time of day, though, since the Others/Walkers and their army of corpses don't look as scary in the day-time as they would at night (and darkness allows the show to make the special effects look much larger and scarier than they would look in daylight).


7. While I thought the Other/Walker looked rather impressive on the dead horse's back, I still prefer the book version. In the book, they're ethereal, beautiful, almost ghostly beings of ice - alien and dangerous. The White Walker of the show looks more monstrous, like some type of ice yeti. I don't blame the show for not doing them, since Martin himself had a hard time giving a concrete description of what an Other would look like* (the comic book talks about this in the notes after the end of Volume One), and the cost probably would have been prohibitive.

* Martin's description: 'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.'
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