GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by spaceviking »

The Sansa near rape was hard to watch.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

I agree.

There were no parts of this episode that I didn't like, although there were good parts and "meh" parts.

Good

1. Harrenhal. That whole scene with Petyr Baelish, with Arya desperate to avoid catching his attention, was great. I also love the strange connection that Tywin is having with his new cupbearer, who he knows is keeping secrets. Ending it with the shock-death of Ser Amory Lorch was hilarious (and a good way for Arya to be forced to spend her second death-wish).

2. Robb in the camp: They're not being anything resembling subtle with his budding attraction to Not-Jeyne-Westerling, which is a pity - I kind of like how it was a spur-of-the-moment fuck-up on Robb's part that led to disaster due to his sense of misplaced honor. The rest of the scene, though, and the interactions between Catelyn and Robb, were very well done (I particularly love the look Catelyn gives Robb after Not-Jeyne walks away - very motherly concern).

3. Daenerys: Continuing the streak of awesome bit characters, the Spice King did not disappoint. They seem to be doing a different portrayal of Qarth with the show, instead of the almost stereotypical decadence of the city in the book - both the Spice King and Xaro are self-made men and traders. The kidnapping of the dragons ended with a bang (and set up the House of the Undying sequence-to-come).

4. The Riot in King's Landing: About as good as you could hope for, although I miss how the book-riot was started by the woman shouting "brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker!" at Cersei. Sansa's almost-rape was pretty damn disturbing to watch. Someone needs to make a GIF of Joffrey getting hit with manure, as well as getting slapped again by Tyrion.

Meh

1. The Taking of Winterfell: While I thought Ser Rodrik's death was pretty horrible, the rest of the scene just felt incredibly rushed. The impact of Theon's dialogue was partially lost because it felt like he and Bran were rushing to get through the scene. On the other hand, we did get a full-frontal shot of Natalie Tena.

2. Jon Snow and Ygritte: They did about the best they could to bring them together, and show some chemistry. At least it was funny near the end.

Other

1. Roose Bolton mentioned his bastard son raising an army to re-take Winterfell, but Ramsay Snow hasn't actually been cast. I wonder what's going to happen.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Minischoles »

I liked it, but it did feel a bit - well I can't think of the word, but it seems this might have been one of the episodes where they cut costs a little.

- I'm really enjoying Tywin and Arya interacting, and the second death being used was very amusing - Amory Loch opening the door and then just falling down dead.
- Tyrion continues to be really awesome, and yet another Joffrey slap is always good
- I'm a little torn on the riot, on on the one hand it's probably the best we could get, but it felt very low key for a riot - was saved really by the Hound cutting his way out
- Ygritte and Jon was kind of amusing, if very short - her shifting against him at the end and acting innocent made me laugh

- Dany, felt really meh, but then I never liked her character and her arc in the books either.
- Robb and Jeyne is being telegraphed so damn hard, I agree that it was better in the books - more of a spur of the moment thing, in mourning over his brothers he seeks comfort.

I'm guessing with Ramsay Snow they're going to move that to the next series, shuffle it around a little - unless they plan on not showing him at all, and just talking about what he did.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

My thoughts:-

1. GoT continues to excel at condensing the expansive plot whilst losing absolutely none of what's important

2. Every scene with Tywin and Arya is pure gold - what better way to get some exposition about Tywin's relationship with the late Lord Tytos Lannister?

3. The scene at the beginning was really well done - you could just see how much Theon was trying to convince himself as much as Bran about what he was doing, and was pushed towards brutality by what was expected of him rather than what he really wanted

4. Love the House Greyjoy uniforms. The show continues to surprise me in the costuming department

5. SHAGGYDOG!

6. The riot scene was perfect. The Hound rescuing Sansa was a highlight of the episode

7. As was Joffrey getting shit thrown at him

8. As was Joffrey getting slapped by Tyrion again

9. Jon finally has something to do! Loved the scenes with Ygritte

10. Hat-tip to the actor who plays Rodrik Cassel. The way he comforted Bran before his death was a great piece of acting.

Oh - and for those who haven't noticed - guess who plays Maester Pycelle?

General Fucking Veers.

Minor stuff:- Littlefinger notes that House Tyrell is behind the North and the Lannisters in terms of the size of their host. That's a change I think - the North always seemed to have a relatively small army in the books.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Coop D'etat »

Vympel wrote: Minor stuff:- Littlefinger notes that House Tyrell is behind the North and the Lannisters in terms of the size of their host. That's a change I think - the North always seemed to have a relatively small army in the books.
The biggest change there is how it massively downgrades the Tyrells who heavily outnumber everyone else in the books.

Word of Martin on the subject is that the Starks are a mid-tier house in numbers with rough parity to the Tullys and Arryns and bigger than the Baretheons and Martells. They seem small than they are in the books because of time and distance being a bigger factor for them then the others so that Robb couldn't muster his full strength before going south.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Vympel wrote:Minor stuff:- Littlefinger notes that House Tyrell is behind the North and the Lannisters in terms of the size of their host. That's a change I think - the North always seemed to have a relatively small army in the books.
It's definitely a change. The number of men that House Tyrell could bring to the field in the books was ~80,000, whereas the next tier of Houses (Stark, Arryn, and Lannister) could only bring less than half of that - and the Starks would take forever to build-up an army of that size because of the North's size. The Lannisters made up for it by being the wealthiest House.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

Don't forget House Martell. They're consistently rated as "40,000 spears".
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Bright »

Yes, but Doran Martell admits that Dorne likes to give outsiders the impression more powerful than they really are, and have been spreading false intelligence for a long time. Their actual numbers are probably somewhat smaller.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Chirios »

Bright wrote:Yes, but Doran Martell admits that Dorne likes to give outsiders the impression more powerful than they really are, and have been spreading false intelligence for a long time. Their actual numbers are probably somewhat smaller.
Believe he gave it as 20k in AFFC
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Chirios wrote:
Bright wrote:Yes, but Doran Martell admits that Dorne likes to give outsiders the impression more powerful than they really are, and have been spreading false intelligence for a long time. Their actual numbers are probably somewhat smaller.
Believe he gave it as 20k in AFFC
Pretty much. Doran said that the Young Dragon doubled the numbers in his accounts of his conquest, and Dorne simply let everyone else go on believing that.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

Oh, one thing that's been bothering me: I've heard several people say that Robb doesn't look right because he looks like a Stark and not like a Tully. Really, that's some bullshit right there. His hair and beard are the same color as Sansa's hair, which is the same colour as Catelyn's hair, which is Tully features. He clearly favors the Tully side of the family.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Ralin »

So, no one else liked Theon trying to intimidate Bran at the beginning of the episode? Because that's got to be Theon's most pathetic moment so far, and it alone made the episode worth watching for me, much less make up for us not seeing Winterfell being taken.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

Oh yeah, loved it. That's what I was referring to about Theon trying to convince himself as much as Bran.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Mr Bean »

Vympel wrote:Oh yeah, loved it. That's what I was referring to about Theon trying to convince himself as much as Bran.
I loved how he sat down on the bed explaining it to his adopted little brother how he just murdered his guards and took his castle because you know what, fuck you nice Starks I love my asshole parents more.

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Mr Bean »

Missed the edit window due to dog deciding that my network cord could be mistaken for a dog treat but OAN not season related but content related Larry Williams of OtakuASSEMBLE he of the very enjoyable Season 1 reviews (Hint Ned was his favorite charter and he never read the books) has vanished of the Internets as of May 4th from both his Facebook, twitter and youtube channels and they started the speculation he's been hit by a bus or something.

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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

Man I hope not.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

In the category of dubious honors, Game of Thrones is immensely popular in terms of digital piracy.

That's to be expected. A show like this tends to draw fans who are more knowledgeable than the norm on how to pirate content, and HBO's constriction of the broadcast to cable subscribers only means that it's practically asking to be pirated. It doesn't help that HBO also tends to heavily delay the sales of their shows on iTunes/Amazon VOD/DVD/BRD - the Season One boxset didn't come out until a short period of time before Season Two started, and we probably won't see the Season Two boxset until march next year.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by MrDakka »

Guardsman Bass wrote:we probably won't see the Season Two boxset until march next year.
NOOO!! I hate it how they release it so damn late
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

You have to figure that if HBO released it digitally in a prompt manner and for a reasonable price, piracy would be a lot less. I'd buy it legitimately for sure. I bought the blu-rays after all.

Part of the reason they release the blu-rays so late is to coincide roughly with the premiere of the following season.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Stormin »

Guardsman Bass wrote:In the category of dubious honors, Game of Thrones is immensely popular in terms of digital piracy.

That's to be expected. A show like this tends to draw fans who are more knowledgeable than the norm on how to pirate content, and HBO's constriction of the broadcast to cable subscribers only means that it's practically asking to be pirated. It doesn't help that HBO also tends to heavily delay the sales of their shows on iTunes/Amazon VOD/DVD/BRD - the Season One boxset didn't come out until a short period of time before Season Two started, and we probably won't see the Season Two boxset until march next year.

I've downloaded every ep an hour or two after airing in some cases. I've also bought 5 copies of season 1 (2 blu ray, 3 dvd). My television provider knows HBO is popular so it's bundled entirely with channels nobody in their right mind would want and charge $15 a month so screw them ($20 a month for HBO + one other channel I'd watch one show a week on). If I was allowed to pre-buy the season disks and download the eps the next day legally as a package deal I would have done that.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by fgalkin »

Uh...guys? Perhaps you shouldn't be discussing your downloading habits in a public forum? Especially when it's against board rules.

Have a very nice day.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Vympel »

Why, I never illegally download anything. I was just saying I'd download them if they were available legitimately. 8)
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Faqa »

They'd get less piracy, but blow up their relationships with cable companies (who would be a teensy-bit pissed that HBO is weakening their positioning as exclusive gatekeepers of their content).

Before they could burn that bridge, they'd have to move from the very comfortable position of being an extremely popular high-end channel to being an independent content provider. And not with the infrastructure of the people they just pissed off.

And all that's assuming there's enough money in that model to fund shows that cost what GoT does, which is by no means assured. Especially figuring they'd lose all the customers who don't really care about any model more complex than "turn on TV. Goodness ensues".

So yeah. From HBO's POV, it's cheaper to fight piracy than change their model. The only thing that could make that equation (possibly) less skewed is regulation of Internet infrastructure so at the very least pissing off cable companies wouldn't hurt their chances with ISPs.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Faqa wrote:They'd get less piracy, but blow up their relationships with cable companies (who would be a teensy-bit pissed that HBO is weakening their positioning as exclusive gatekeepers of their content).
That's the big reason there. HBO gets significant fees from the cable/satellite providers that would either evaporate or shrink if they started offering online-only options that compete with what the cable/satellite providers are offering (even HBO GO involved difficult negotiations with Time Warner Cable IIRC). That's a relationship they can't afford to jeopardize, especially since the potential domestic market they would gain from it is still pretty small (only 8% of US households have broadband but no cable/satellite video service, while 70% of US households have both).

It's different overseas, but I don't have enough information on HBO's revenue from foreign cable/satellite partners to speculate on it.
Faqa wrote: And all that's assuming there's enough money in that model to fund shows that cost what GoT does, which is by no means assured. Especially figuring they'd lose all the customers who don't really care about any model more complex than "turn on TV. Goodness ensues".
As I mentioned above, most US households with broadband also have cable television. I doubt an HBO GO web-only service would be any cheaper than simply adding HBO as a premium channel, then using HBO GO through an authenticated account. Since the existing set-up is highly profitable for HBO, there's really no reason to drastically change the fundamental nature of their business until it's absolutely necessary.
Faqa wrote: So yeah. From HBO's POV, it's cheaper to fight piracy than change their model. The only thing that could make that equation (possibly) less skewed is regulation of Internet infrastructure so at the very least pissing off cable companies wouldn't hurt their chances with ISPs.
HBO might not even need to fight piracy too hard, at least before its shows show up on DVD/BRD/Amazon VOD/iTunes. If enough people are paying subscribers to make the show profitable, and most of the pirates are people who couldn't afford a cable subscription + HBO anyways, then they're not really losing anything before they start selling the shows directly in various venues.

If I recall correctly, True Blood was heavily pirated as well, and still turned out very profitable for HBO.

Now, back to Game of Thrones. :D The next episode is titled "A Man without Honor", which means that Theon is probably going to do the despicable scheme he did in the book after losing Bran and Rickon (which finishes the destruction of his reputation). The show has set some of it up, including his ever-increasing anger over being "mocked" or not taken seriously.

I think we'll also see Jaime again, since he's definitely considered to be "A Man without Honor" in the story.
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Re: GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

Post by Faqa »

HBO might not even need to fight piracy too hard, at least before its shows show up on DVD/BRD/Amazon VOD/iTunes.
Here I disagree. HBO's business case for fighting piracy is MUCH stronger than most networks. They're some of the few in the biz of selling consumers a product, as opposed to selling consumers as products like cable and broadcast do. That they have people consuming that product without buying it is much more serious than it would be for, say, NBC. It's measurable money lost.

Of course, going after people for downloading GoT would probably blow up in their faces, PR-wise.
I think we'll also see Jaime again, since he's definitely considered to be "A Man without Honor" in the story.
I am actually impressed that they managed to keep Jaime off-camera for most of the season. I was betting they couldn't, because you can't just keep an actor out of work for a year when you'll definitely need him the year after. For this very reason, I was (still am) concerned about what would happen with Theon AFTER this season - I don't think Reek can be cut, but we still need a very long hiatus for Theon before he re-surfaces in the ruins of the North.

That said, there is STILL no Reek in sight, so they may just be going off the rails here entirely. All to the good.

ON the show itself:

Does anyone find it incredibly hilarious that Theon is doing everything so that his crew - and everyone - will respect him as a man to be feared.... yet lets himself be publically led by the nose by Dagmer? It's like he's completely blind to how much of a puppet he looks like. It would be oddly appropriate if this version of Theon had some sort of mental disorder on top of being a shit. This is a world where Jaime is dyslexic, remember.
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