GoT: S2 Clash of Kings ***SPOILERS***

[Coop D'etat]

Note are we getting any Tywin this season? I'm blanking about Book 2.

Yes, when Spoiler

he saves Tyrion at Blackwater Bay and takes up the role of the Hand.

Interesting were they went with Stannis and Melisandre. They had strangely close relationship in the books but there never was any particular indication they were fucking other than spending a lot of time alone together. Its also a bit out of character for book Stannis to be doing anything extra-marital.

It's pretty heavily implied that that's how Mel made the shadow babies. Remember Davos was all like: "That shadow, it looks like STANNIS!"

Also, I agree with Bean about the relative weakness of the characterisation of the Eastern cities compared to the Westerosi ones, but I don't think it's racism, just laziness. I get the feeling that Westeros was based on Georges understanding of European history, and he doesn't have a similar understanding of Asian/Middle Eastern/ African history.

I got that she was doing something with Stannis to create the shadowchild but figured she was doing something to drain him somehow. I didn't make the leap to sexy-time magic ritual for that to happen, which didn't really fit with Stannis' MO.

[Bright]

Re: In Dance, Melisandre's narration outright states that "her bed hadn't seen much use since Stannis had left" or something to that effect. It's pretty clear that they continue to fuck even when there aren't shadowbabies to be made.

Regarding this episode... I quite disliked the Littlefinger scene. It just seemed to gratuitous (in terms of writing), and pointless as well. It felt like the time could have been better spent on something else.

I am also not a fan of making Joffrey responsible for the killings. It almost seems like the show-runners are sort of trying to whitewash Cersei's actions to an extent. People have been saying that they prefer her being more sympathetic and smarter than in the books, but I actually don't; I think it undermines her somewhat. Her character is based on her stupidly trying to set up her children as monarchs without realizing she's painting targets on their chests. Cersei's line about power being a "bed of weeds" seems incongruously self-conscious.

[Chirios]

Re: In Dance, Melisandre's narration outright states that "her bed hadn't seen much use since Stannis had left" or something to that effect. It's pretty clear that they continue to fuck even when there aren't shadowbabies to be made.

Regarding this episode... I quite disliked the Littlefinger scene. It just seemed to gratuitous (in terms of writing), and pointless as well. It felt like the time could have been better spent on something else.

I am also not a fan of making Joffrey responsible for the killings. It almost seems like the show-runners are sort of trying to whitewash Cersei's actions to an extent. People have been saying that they prefer her being more sympathetic and smarter than in the books, but I actually don't; I think it undermines her somewhat. Her character is based on her stupidly trying to set up her children as monarchs without realizing she's painting targets on their chests. Cersei's line about power being a "bed of weeds" seems incongruously self-conscious.

I think this is the season where they're going to start deviating from the books more and more. The Northmen are already being shown to be a hell of a lot less loyal to the Starks than they were shown to be in the books; they've changed the order in which certain things happen and in which certain characters die; changing character motivations will only lead to further changes and continuity snarls. I hope they can keep track of it all, because if they can't it means that we're going to end up in the same situation as we ended up in with ADwD, and considering that they've done a really good job so far I'd hate to have to watch the show turn out like that.

[Guardsman Bass]

I figured they had to go with Joffrey being responsible for the killings. He's older, and they've set Cersei up as a more sympathetic character than she was in the books. I do like, though, that everyone thinks she was the one who did it.

[fgalkin]

I figured they had to go with Joffrey being responsible for the killings. He's older, and they've set Cersei up as a more sympathetic character than she was in the books. I do like, though, that everyone thinks she was the one who did it.

Yes, the effects on the world are functionally unchanged, but anything that makes Cersei seem less of an evil version of Ned Stark is a good thing.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Mr Bean]

I figured they had to go with Joffrey being responsible for the killings. He's older, and they've set Cersei up as a more sympathetic character than she was in the books. I do like, though, that everyone thinks she was the one who did it.

I liked it better how Tyrion puzzled it out and the as always excellent expression when he understands that not only did she not order it but she had no idea it was going on. Her sister murdering dozens of children fine he knows she's a cold hearted semi-sane crazy lady but to see his little shit of a nephew ordered it at age 16 (I checked Joff is 16 per the show not 14) means he significantly more bloodthirsty that anyone realized.

It compares well with Season 1 with Joffs talk of a Royal army, what people forgot as soon as they heard that conversation was his preferred method of dealing with anyone who did not do exactly what he said involved spikes and heads.

[Thanas]

The direwolves look fantastic.

[Guardsman Bass]

Ghost moved a little awkwardly, but otherwise looked great. I heard that they actually took video of real-live animals, and scaled them up in size relative to the setting.

Back on the episode, there was an element of "I'm sad it wasn't included, but it's a TV show, not a book" in the Tyrion-Cersei private conversation. I loved how it went in the book, and particularly how it revealed Tyrion's suspicions on the whole "Twincest" issue. And if he was suspicious of it . . . then I suppose it's not really surprising that Kevan was willing to vocalize his belief on it after Tywin was no longer alive to hear it. It's way too long to put in the show, though.

[Mr Bean]

Episode 3 What is dead may never die starts in seven minutes, see you after for commentary

[Vaporous]

okay, seriously, did no one stop Aiden Gillen and ask him what the hell he's trying to do? Littlefinger's accent doesn't just change from episode to episode, but from line to line. It's really jarring and annoying now. At least Dinklage is consistent.

[Mr Bean]

What to say...
Okay let me say this

Okay lots of interesting bits this week and Margery and Brianne were both great.

So first off we get to see the watch get kicked out of Crasters and this was done well since Craster apparently can fling armored foes with the best of them. Loved the bit with Sam giving Gilly a... something I have no idea what to promise them they would return. So the watch portion was short but satisfying as they got in the portion where the Lord Commander says "Yeah he's a baby killer but we need him"

Peter Dinklage is fucking Tyrion, and continues to be Tyrion and get's the poison he needs from Pysle in an change that I bet was budget related because they did not want to build the Maesters apothecary style quarters.

And the Tyrells are an interesting bunch, hope we get to meet the Queen of Thorns in a later series but Margery by herself was interesting enough. Love the Renly/Loras scene and how Renly manages to act like the most squicked out 11 year old boy on being kissed by Grandma.

[spaceviking]

Seeing Brienne of Tarth walk besides lady stark, she seems almost to big. She is supposed to be taller than most knights, but she might give Gregor a run.

[Guardsman Bass]

• Tyrion was great, of course. I've been expecting the Tyrion Gambit, and while I wanted to see Tyrion lose his temper with Cersei, I'll settle for Cersei being appropriately unsettled by the trade (my biggest complaint about Cersei in Season One was that she always had this quizzical smile on her face, no matter the circumstances). We also see the first hint of his mistake with Littlefinger, the same mistake that everyone makes with Littlefinger: they know that he's sleazy, clever, and grasping, but they all think they can keep him under their thumb because he has no rank of significance (he's barely a small lord).
• Natalie Dormer is goddamn hot - the hottest nude woman I've seen seen on the show so far. She hits Margaery perfect, too, with all the calculating, realist talk about the need to maintain their image, and what needs to be done in court.
• I'm still underwhelmed by Asha/Yara, since we've had only minor hints of Asha's sharp tongue and wit. Theon was much greater, with his actual speech to his father about how the latter traded him off as a hostage to the Starks when he lost the war - "Did he take what was yours, father?" Show-Theon being a much more sympathetic character helps to drive home the identity issues that Theon has, although I miss the "unpleasant victim" element that made Theon extra interesting in the books.
• Lots of good Arya action, and I liked the story that Yoren told (which is presumably going to be the origin of Arya's murder prayer).
• Jon and Mormont had the talk! Mormont's talk with Jon Snow about Craster being a necessary evil is one of those book-dialogues that they usually omit for length issues, but I'm glad they included both that and Sam's further interactions with Gilly.
• No Daenerys this episode, which isn't surprising. She only had a few chapters in A Clash of Kings, and her sequences are likely more expensive due to the dragons and location shooting.
• Brienne looks perfect. What can I say?
• I love what we've gotten from Littlefinger in this season. The scene where Cersei proves how vulnerable he really is, Tyrion's deception, his barely masked greed for Harrenhal and the sought-after title . . . good stuff.

[Guardsman Bass]

Renly is almost certainly going to die in the next episode, after his confrontation with Stannis. I hope they keep the two best conversation lines from their argument-

Stannis: In your bed, she's apt to die that way [as a maid/virgin].

Renly: No one wants you for their King, Stannis. Sorry.

[Scrib]

Theon was awesome this episode, much more sympathetic than in the books. Am I the only one that felt that Asha had just the tiniest bit of sympathy for him?

[Haruko]

Who was the guy with Tyrion and Bronn to arrest Pycelle? Sorry, I have not read the books, or maybe just did not pay enough attention in previous episodes.

[Shadow6]

Who was the guy with Tyrion and Bronn to arrest Pycelle? Sorry, I have not read the books, or maybe just did not pay enough attention in previous episodes.

A member of Tyrion's recruited hill tribes. Pretty sure it was Shagga, the leader of the Stone Crows. You're in the wrong thread if you've not read the books. Spoiler Free

Great episode, Tyrion, Theon and Renly's followers especially. I also think they handled Arya's plotline well, given the time constraints in the show.

[Aeolus]

What to say...
Okay let me say this

Okay lots of interesting bits this week and Margery and Brianne were both great.

So first off we get to see the watch get kicked out of Crasters and this was done well since Craster apparently can fling armored foes with the best of them. Loved the bit with Sam giving Gilly a... something I have no idea what to promise them they would return. So the watch portion was short but satisfying as they got in the portion where the Lord Commander says "Yeah he's a baby killer but we need him"

Peter Dinklage is fucking Tyrion, and continues to be Tyrion and get's the poison he needs from Pysle in an change that I bet was budget related because they did not want to build the Maesters apothecary style quarters.

And the Tyrells are an interesting bunch, hope we get to meet the Queen of Thorns in a later series but Margery by herself was interesting enough. Love the Renly/Loras scene and how Renly manages to act like the most squicked out 11 year old boy on being kissed by Grandma.

His "OMG boobies, icky" look was pure gold.

[Chirios]

Eurgh, Balon Greyjoy. Absolutely hate that plotline.

Like the rest of the show though, it's going well.

[Minischoles]

- Loved the Renly parts, absolutely perfect. Really nails the idea that he really is just someone who enjoys the trappings of being King, sitting around with his huge army and staging tournaments. And his absolutely horrified look when Margery stripped and then asked if he wanted her brother to start him off - his 'OMG BOOBIES' look had me laughing.
- On that note, Natalie Dormer is good as Margery - and she looks fantastic undressed.
- Brienne looks really good, especially when put beside Catelyn, the disparity in height really became clear when she was leading Cat off to her tent.

- I like the direction they're going with Theon, he seems to be a bit more of a sympathetic character so far than he was in the books. It was especially nice to see him call his father on his bullshit, talking about paying the Iron Price and not bending the knee, after he bent the knee in defeat and sent his only surviving son away to be a hostage.

- They cut out a good portion of Arya's journey in this book, but nothing was really lost, we still got the important parts - Lom dead, the others captured and taken to Harrenhall and her freeing the three prisoners. They seem to have just flat out merged the Mountains and Lochs forces if we go by the preview for the next episode, considering we've got the torture going on.

[Bright]

- They cut out a good portion of Arya's journey in this book, but nothing was really lost,

Wasn't it? It was Arya's journey with Yoren and immediately afterwards that gave us our best look at the effect of the war on commoners. Looks like we're not getting that anymore.

[Guardsman Bass]

Some of that was inevitable for budgetary reasons. There was a great Arya scene where she and the rest of Yoren's group are traveling out of the city, passing a long line of refugees desperate to get in (and eying their horses and wagons enviously). It was a good image of what's going on, but there's no way you could afford to film.

[Vaporous]

Arya's "Kim Bauer Tour of Westeros" was more irritating than interesting, so I see this as a plus.

[Vympel]

Thronecast interviews GRRM

At around the 15 minute mark, he talks about which characters differ from the book in his mind, his biggest one being Osha - he says the TV version is much more interesting than his version.

[Ahriman238]

Umm... doesn't the Iron Men baptism thing involve drowning you to within an inch of life than using CPR? Or is that something else?

I did like the sybolism and feel of Theon sitting in the dark with a letter to Robb, warning him what's coming, and burning it.

No Throne Room scene this week, I wanted to see what Joffery's done with the place.