fgalkin wrote:I'm going to make a shocking suggestion that perhaps slowly dying in agonizing pain from being stabbed in the gut is not very conducive to rational thinking.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Yet he thought to tell them to leave and for Osha to take care of them. Then he proceeded to rationally deduce that he would die slowly, and asked Osha to end it. He was thinking rationally.
How is any of that "thinking rationally?" "Go North," "Osha, take care of them," and "I'm dying from internal bleeding, finish me" does not exactly require great mental effort.
fgalkin wrote:I'm going to make a shocking suggestion that perhaps slowly dying in agonizing pain from being stabbed in the gut is not very conducive to rational thinking.
Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Yet he thought to tell them to leave and for Osha to take care of them. Then he proceeded to rationally deduce that he would die slowly, and asked Osha to end it. He was thinking rationally.
I was lost on who burned everything as well.
He knew he was in pain and going to die. Does not imply he was thinking "Rationally". I believe you are supposed to be lost on who burned everything because they didn't show it. You are supposed to question "why would the Ironment do it? And if not them, then who?".
I put this in spoilers because in my knowledge of what happens in the books, I am suggesting which parts and scenes in the show suggest an explanation for the burning of Winterfell. There are no explicit spoilers. Spoiler
You know who was besieging Theon at Winterfell. You know about Robb's behavior. You know about Robb's bannermen's thoughts and behavior. This suggests an explanation for who burned the castle and why. If you piece these together, then you also begin to see foreshadowing of major plot events next season.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
What I don't understand is why Tywin left Tyrion to rot after he proved himself during the siege? I get that Tywin is an asshole but he did install Tyrion as hand of the king because he was impressed by his intelligence. He goes on about family and maintaining the family name so why now discard his own son after he has proven he is more than just a useless imp?
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
Kane Starkiller wrote:What I don't understand is why Tywin left Tyrion to rot after he proved himself during the siege? I get that Tywin is an asshole but he did install Tyrion as hand of the king because he was impressed by his intelligence. He goes on about family and maintaining the family name so why now discard his own son after he has proven he is more than just a useless imp?
I had this question as well and feel that what the "show" says and what the books say seem to be contradictory on this point but in spoiler brackets from what people told me: Spoiler
Tywin is a colossal dick who has always blamed Tyrion for the death of his wife and regards him as a miserable failure and walking rebuke. He hates Tyrion, and is blind to his son's successes.
But this doesn't really match what the show has been showing us, TV!Tywin seems to be genuinely caring if a bit of a cruel prick in a "for your own good" kind of way and gives me the impression of being the sort of dude who would recognize success in his family.
Uhm, I don't know why that didn't work. Did it need "spoiler=words"? I don't think it really constitutes a spoiler but to be safe can some nice person fix it for me I can't; it doesn't let me edit it. :(
Kane Starkiller wrote:What I don't understand is why Tywin left Tyrion to rot after he proved himself during the siege? I get that Tywin is an asshole but he did install Tyrion as hand of the king because he was impressed by his intelligence. He goes on about family and maintaining the family name so why now discard his own son after he has proven he is more than just a useless imp?
I had this question as well and feel that what the "show" says and what the books say seem to be contradictory on this point but in spoiler brackets from what people told me: Spoiler
Tywin is a colossal dick who has always blamed Tyrion for the death of his wife and regards him as a miserable failure and walking rebuke. He hates Tyrion, and is blind to his son's successes.
But this doesn't really match what the show has been showing us, TV!Tywin seems to be genuinely caring if a bit of a cruel prick in a "for your own good" kind of way and gives me the impression of being the sort of dude who would recognize success in his family.
But not apparently?
Well obviously Tyrion was only "acting hand" so it would make sense for Tywin to take over the role once he's back in power. Have not read the books, its hard to determine what exactl credit or blame tyrion has recieved since he had just awoken. Its implied he wouldn't get much public credit, but his father may or may not recognize how big a role he played with destroying Stannis' fleet.
One further thing to note: considering he was out for who knows how long his sister could well have been smearing his performance the entire time and he wasn't around to defend himself. I'm assuming that will all flesh out in season 3.
It could be Tywin doesn't know. He's got a lot to do, and has just been told that Tyrion is just off being healed and doesn't care about the details of that. Meanwhile Joffrey, Cersei and especially Littlefinger are free to smear, slander and lie.
"Our terror has to be indiscriminate, otherwise innocent people will cease to fear"
-Josef Stalin
Kane Starkiller wrote:What I don't understand is why Tywin left Tyrion to rot after he proved himself during the siege? I get that Tywin is an asshole but he did install Tyrion as hand of the king because he was impressed by his intelligence. He goes on about family and maintaining the family name so why now discard his own son after he has proven he is more than just a useless imp?
Yeah, doesn't make much sense either. I think part of it comes from how well he's acted in the show, you get the sense that Tywin is a magnificent bastard but from the books he's more of a jerkass with moments of brilliance. In other words, sometimes he's just an ass for the sake of being an ass, cruel without reason.
My read from the show is as follows. Tywin has hated Tyrion ever since he was born, since Joanna Lannister died in childbirth. However, his loyalty to family has kept him from outright killing Tyrion (you can see this strain loyalty to family name and honor in all of the Lannisters, even in Cersei "Anyone who isn't one of us is an enemy" and even in Tyrion himself). Tywin was impressed by Tyrion's perspicacity after Jamie's defeat and Joffrey's beheading of Ned Stark, so he decided to send Tyrion as acting hand to try to reign in Joffrey's excesses.
He probably didn't expect much, since he hates and underestimates Tyrion, but he probably figured that almost anything would be better than Joffrey. This was a zero-loss act of desperation: if Tyrion does what Tywin expects, he doesn't lose anything and Tyrion's out of the way in King's Landing; if Tyrion proves himself, so much the better.
Now that Tyrion has been convalescing, I am guessing that Cersei, in whose favor Tywin is already biased, is hard at work taking credit for Tyrion's successes and discrediting him. This, and that Cersei found Tyrion's "whore," will probably confirm Tywin's prejudice that Tyrion did nothing (or very little) useful and spent his time in King's Landing whoring and drinking and bringing shame to the family name.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
Yeah, I guessed as much (especially what with cersi trying to off him) - since the character is truly formidable in plotting and scheming, it also feels a bit like the writers had to set him back to powerless to prevent him basically taking over and running the kingdom competently.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
My only problem with this is that while rising and falling fortunes and the tragedy thereof makes great drama it annoys me greatly because historical successful Machiavellian examples usually did not have such drops in fortunes unless it was a deliberate strategy to bounce back higher than before (Because by loosening control and letting things go to pot you remind your underlings why they need you).
Though I will be pretty damn happy if Tyrrion actually does use this to his advantage and does so, I will squee. I love Magnificent Bastard characters.
Surlethe wrote:My read from the show is as follows. Tywin has hated Tyrion ever since he was born, since Joanna Lannister died in childbirth. However, his loyalty to family has kept him from outright killing Tyrion (you can see this strain loyalty to family name and honor in all of the Lannisters, even in Cersei "Anyone who isn't one of us is an enemy" and even in Tyrion himself). Tywin was impressed by Tyrion's perspicacity after Jamie's defeat and Joffrey's beheading of Ned Stark, so he decided to send Tyrion as acting hand to try to reign in Joffrey's excesses.
And on top of that, there's also the fact that Tywin thought that he lost his only son right when he could have freed him. Tyrion was all that he had left.
I doubt he's that impressed with Cersei though, he was PISSED when he found out about Ned Stark and if Tyrion's reaction is any indication as Regent Cersei will take the fall for that and Arya as well.
