GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Eleas »

Elfdart wrote:Another question about the new episode: How does the creepy old man who lives north of the Wall and rapes his own daughters get away with making one threat after another against Mormont and his men? It's one old pedophile against a bunch of rangers who would be justified in chopping him immediately, yet they take his verbal abuse just like his poor daughters take his physical abuse.

What gives?
The Night's Watch is in decline. Craster's just about the only good inside intelligence source they have up there, and more than that, he's a good place for supplies whereas the Rangers themselves wouldn't be able to maintain a base that far north of the Wall without the Wildlings wiping it out. Sure you could raze the place, but that'd really only be of short-term benefit.

Craster knows he's useful enough that he can goad Mormont, to a point. Notice that he never insults Mormont personally the way he mocks Jon Snow. Mormont for his part is playing it smart and throttling his impulse to kill the asshole because a) discipline in the Watch is built partly on mores such as guest duties and b) Craster provides a valuable service.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Coop D'etat »

Elfdart wrote:Another question about the new episode: How does the creepy old man who lives north of the Wall and rapes his own daughters get away with making one threat after another against Mormont and his men? It's one old pedophile against a bunch of rangers who would be justified in chopping him immediately, yet they take his verbal abuse just like his poor daughters take his physical abuse.

What gives?
The Night Watch doesn't have many friends north of the wall and can't really be choosy about them. The information he was giving them being worth putting up with a creepy old fuck.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Skgoa »

They literally say in the episode that he is the last source of information they have.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Mr Bean »

As this is spoiler free thread please stay away from referencing the books people. If it's not explained in the show wait a week.

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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Eleas »

Mr Bean wrote:As this is spoiler free thread please stay away from referencing the books people. If it's not explained in the show wait a week.
Respectfully, who in this thread has referenced the books? I know I didn't -- the Night Watch being in decline has been a running theme, and the importance of Craster established in the episode itself.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by lordofchange13 »

Elfdart wrote:Another question about the new episode: How does the creepy old man who lives north of the Wall and rapes his own daughters get away with making one threat after another against Mormont and his men? It's one old pedophile against a bunch of rangers who would be justified in chopping him immediately, yet they take his verbal abuse just like his poor daughters take his physical abuse.

What gives?
1.)The world for the most part still lives under the law of hospitality and honor or some such ethical ruling. not sure if true but seems that way to me in the north, specifically with the black watch. but they also wouldn't want to loose any of their men in the insuring fight.
2.) their commander told them to follow Craster's rules and not react to his threats.
3.) they need information form him about why the wilding's are moving in large numbers.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Mr Bean »

Eleas wrote: Respectfully, who in this thread has referenced the books? I know I didn't -- the Night Watch being in decline has been a running theme, and the importance of Craster established in the episode itself.
The secondary information that Lordofchange is mentioning and Coop are edging towards is all book knowledge not show knowledge.

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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Eleas »

Mr Bean wrote:
Eleas wrote: Respectfully, who in this thread has referenced the books? I know I didn't -- the Night Watch being in decline has been a running theme, and the importance of Craster established in the episode itself.
The secondary information that Lordofchange is mentioning and Coop are edging towards is all book knowledge not show knowledge.
Ah. My bad, I completely missed that. Sorry for being a dick.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Spekio »

Laws of hospitability is a huge deal on westeros. You can't raise a blade for your host or guest. Craster is just being an asshole.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Coop D'etat »

Mr Bean wrote:
Eleas wrote: Respectfully, who in this thread has referenced the books? I know I didn't -- the Night Watch being in decline has been a running theme, and the importance of Craster established in the episode itself.
The secondary information that Lordofchange is mentioning and Coop are edging towards is all book knowledge not show knowledge.
Sorry. I thought that was pretty clear based on dialogue in the show though that Craster was the only guy out there willing to talk with them.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Scrib »

I recently watched the first episode and liked it. There were tiny divergences and those were fine, like the interaction between Joff and Cersei. I suspect Cersei is being portrayed slightly differently (one particular action of hers was given to someone else apparently) probably because they wouldn't be able to get away with Martin's own portrayal. People have already decided that she's the feminist icon of the show, and writing her as she is in the books would be...awkward. I like her more this way anyway, "Power is power" indeed.

I'm excited though, this is perhaps my favorite part of the series and I can't wait to see it on screen.

And Ros... oh my god, why is she even a character? Do they have her on the rolls and it's easier to use her than get a new actress or what? It's seriously annoying. And so is Asha's namechange to Yara, because it would conflict with Osha, a much more minor character. It assumes that we're stupid and can't tell the difference between two completely different plotlines and it begs the question of why exactly they didn't change Osha, who is probably the much smaller character, and who gets named much less.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Vaporous »

the name is especially annoying because Yara is not that different a name from Arya, who is currently 'Arry the orphan boy. It's probably not going to help anyone.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Elfdart »

Scrib wrote:And Ros... oh my god, why is she even a character?
I can think of two rather obvious reasons. :lol:

On the Howard Stern Show, Mr Skin got Howard & Co. to talk about Game of Thrones ("Breast TV Series of 2011") for the better part of an hour because of Ros. This is quite an achievement since Stern and his fans tend to be mouth-breathers who despise fantasy and constantly make fun of the genre and its fans.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by fgalkin »

Elfdart wrote:
Scrib wrote:And Ros... oh my god, why is she even a character?
I can think of two rather obvious reasons. :lol:

On the Howard Stern Show, Mr Skin got Howard & Co. to talk about Game of Thrones ("Breast TV Series of 2011") for the better part of an hour because of Ros. This is quite an achievement since Stern and his fans tend to be mouth-breathers who despise fantasy and constantly make fun of the genre and its fans.
Mission accomplished?

I don't know if every actress over the age of consent on the show is contractually obligated to appear naked at least once (I think Arya, Sansa, and Catelyn are the only characters whose tits we haven't seen yet), but it certainly looks like it.

Have a very nice day.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Eleas »

Ros function is, at present, to act as a mirror to Littlefinger. She's one of the few people he can actually treat as if she doesn't matter, because she's no threat to him. That means that functionally, she's the only one who gets to see what he's really like, even if all she gets is glimpses.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Elfdart »

Two episodes in a row where Ros doesn't whip 'em out? :lol:

So far, the twelve episodes of Game of Thrones have had far more gratuitous boobage than the last twelve episodes of Californication, which is really saying something.

Anyway, back to the story. Why does Jon Snow go running off into forest at night without his dire wolf?

I see that Robb Stark has inherited some of his father's stupidity: sending Theon to meet his father. I didn't remember from the first series any mention of Ned Stark killing Theon's brothers. If Robb had any idea that this was the case then sending Theon was pretty dumb.

I have yet to see any reason why Stannis is supposed to be so awful. He's severely anal retentive, but that appears to be his only flaw so far. Granted it has only been two episodes but at this point in the show he's not sadistic (like Joffrey and Cersei), not stupid (like the Starks), not destitute (like Danerys), and not a wimp (like his brother). The only flaw shown so far is that he goes out of his way to humor the red-headed sorceress, and right before he boinks her she hints that he ought to bump off his sick wife*. But how many straight men wouldn't think with the little head instead of the big one when Carice Van Houton drops her gown?

* I haven't read the books so I was wondering if the way the show is always carefully loading, cocking and pointing Chekov's Gun is reflected in the way George Martin wrote the story, or is it the screenwriters who are so hell bent on telegraphing every move?
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by fgalkin »

I think the main reason why he's really unpopular in Westeros is precisely because his obsession with justice. He's not Honorable Stupid like Ned Stark, but he is extremely by the book, and doesn't care about the precise circumstances. He's the type of guy who chops off your hand if you steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family. Considering that everyone has their little deals running on the side, you can see why someone like that would be unpopular with the powers-that-be. That and he's an unlikeable, humorless git.

Also, his own willingness to live up to his ideals has been....not entirely what it should be. As you've seen in this episode where he cheats on his wife (because you can be damn sure he would punish your ass if you did the same). He genuinely tries, though.

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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Guardsman Bass »

* I haven't read the books so I was wondering if the way the show is always carefully loading, cocking and pointing Chekov's Gun is reflected in the way George Martin wrote the story, or is it the screenwriters who are so hell bent on telegraphing every move?
Martin tends to be more subtle about it. You read the book, and when you re-read it later you realize that he dropped all these little bits of foreshadowing and hints towards other events going on in the books. They just didn't stand out as much because you didn't know what was coming.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by FaxModem1 »

How is Renly a wimp? I mean, aside from not being like his brother Robert and wanting the 'good old days' where either there was a tyrant on the throne or a war in which a lot of people were killed, he hasn't shown any wimpiness that I remember. Heck, I wouldn't call that wimpiness either, I'd call that sanity.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by TheHammer »

Elfdart wrote: Anyway, back to the story. Why does Jon Snow go running off into forest at night without his dire wolf?

It seemed like there wasn't time, or perhaps he felt that the white wolf would give him away more easily than he would being dressed in black. Hindsight being 20/20 it looks stupid but I could see the rationale for either scenario.
I see that Robb Stark has inherited some of his father's stupidity: sending Theon to meet his father. I didn't remember from the first series any mention of Ned Stark killing Theon's brothers. If Robb had any idea that this was the case then sending Theon was pretty dumb.
Rob and Theon grew up together, and Rob essentially regarded him as a brother and trusted comrade in arms. As noted Theon actually had lived longer with the Starks than with his own family. It's clear based on the later conversations with his mother that he realizes it is a gamble but beggars can't be choosers. If anything, I think Rob has shown time and again that he's more prudent then Ned. Further, it seems that being in the position of being a rebel himself he views the Greyjoys through more sympathetic eyes.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by spaceviking »

Robb expressed his doubts of Theon's loyalty to his mother; however, he will not be able to end the war without taking Kings landing. He can not threaten Kings landing without a fleet.

Robb has made the mistake of assuming everyone is as rational as he is. A Greyjoy--Stark alliance should be perfect. An independent north gives Greycoy independence legitimacy as well as protection from southern land armies. As the episode shows, Balon is not rational.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Rogue 9 »

FaxModem1 wrote:How is Renly a wimp? I mean, aside from not being like his brother Robert and wanting the 'good old days' where either there was a tyrant on the throne or a war in which a lot of people were killed, he hasn't shown any wimpiness that I remember. Heck, I wouldn't call that wimpiness either, I'd call that sanity.
Well, he cannot stand the sight of blood, for starters. :P
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by FaxModem1 »

Okay, I concede on Renly not liking the sight of blood. I still think out of all the candidates shown so far, he seems the best for King. A King who doesn't want bloodshed seems more like a virtue and less like a vice.
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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by fgalkin »

TheHammer wrote:
Elfdart wrote: Anyway, back to the story. Why does Jon Snow go running off into forest at night without his dire wolf?

It seemed like there wasn't time, or perhaps he felt that the white wolf would give him away more easily than he would being dressed in black. Hindsight being 20/20 it looks stupid but I could see the rationale for either scenario.
Who said Ghost wasn't there? Just because he's not following Jon like a dog does not mean he's not around. In fact, he's probably going to save Jon the next episode

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Re: GoT:Clash of Kings Season 2 Spoiler Free

Post by Bright »

fgalkin wrote:Who said Ghost wasn't there? Just because he's not following Jon like a dog does not mean he's not around. In fact, he's probably going to save Jon the next episode
I doubt it. I'm counting on Jon waking up inside Craster's house in the next episode and Craster getting real pissy at the Night's Watch.
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