Avengers II

[Mr Bean]

Along with basking in the glow of the soon to be released Avengers I, lets say the studio Ex's come to you and say here's a billion dollars we want an Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Hulk 2 and Captain America 2 all leading into Avengers II.

Who do you pick as your villains? Assume your baddies in Thor 2 will play some role in Avengers II and so on. Re-using enemies already in existing movies is discouraged.
So which Iron/Hulk/Thor/CA villains do you pick to throw down thus requiring Avengers II?

[SCRawl]

Ultron would be an obvious member of the Avengers rogue's gallery to use. You could even have him introduced in one of the other "feeder" movies, get defeated, and come back as Ultron-2, now with 100% more adamantium. I doubt that that would work for a mass-market audience -- too much repetition -- but it would suit the original source material.

[Simon_Jester]

It really depends on what they do with Avengers itself. If we see Hydra return, or signs of it, that leads well into Captain America 2- and we can go from the mythology to dredge up artifacts or characters that Hydra uses to oppose Cap.

Depending on what happens to Loki in Avengers, we may or may not be able to make much use of him in Thor 2. I have no idea who else they could bring in.

Iron Man 3 might do well to keep exploring the same theme that many independent Iron Man comics have, and that the movies have- Tony Stark dealing with the proliferation of Iron Man technology. This time, they might want to explore the Ten Rings- "a man with a dozen of these could rule all of Asia." They never really got finished off as an organization, after all.

Another Hulk movie might actually be a bad idea- you don't want to wind up with this weird back-and-forth where the Hulk goes on huge destructive rampages in his own movies, but is accepted back into the Avengers in those movies.

[Mr Bean]

Another Hulk movie might actually be a bad idea- you don't want to wind up with this weird back-and-forth where the Hulk goes on huge destructive rampages in his own movies, but is accepted back into the Avengers in those movies.

Hulk goes to China, or rather Hydra. How much fun would a Bruce Banner movie be where the government accepts him and is trying to protect him from some 3rd party organization or country from kidnapping Banner to use the Hulk as a bio-weapon.

[Drooling Iguana]

Ultron would be an obvious member of the Avengers rogue's gallery to use. You could even have him introduced in one of the other "feeder" movies, get defeated, and come back as Ultron-2, now with 100% more adamantium. I doubt that that would work for a mass-market audience -- too much repetition -- but it would suit the original source material.

Can Marvel legally use adamantium in an Avengers-verse movie, or does Fox own the rights to that concept as part of their X-Men license?

[Tsyroc]

Ultron would be an obvious member of the Avengers rogue's gallery to use. You could even have him introduced in one of the other "feeder" movies, get defeated, and come back as Ultron-2, now with 100% more adamantium. I doubt that that would work for a mass-market audience -- too much repetition -- but it would suit the original source material.

Can Marvel legally use adamantium in an Avengers-verse movie, or does Fox own the rights to that concept as part of their X-Men license?

I think in Captain America they just stuck with vibranium only for Cap's shield to keep from being too confusing. They got Hugh Jackman to do a cameo so not sure the adamantium thing would have been off limits. Not that anyone really knew what adamantium was in 1941. It didn't make a reappearance in Marvel comics until one of the Avengers books.


As for villains for the next movie. I'd kind of like to see some sort of Masters of Evil. Maybe they are in the current one in an early form as it is? The Red Skull seems to be a combination of Zemo and the comic book Skull so he and Loki can be behind the MOE. I'm just not sure which other characters would be the most interesting. This might be a time to go the Ultimates route and have the Abomination and the Crimson Dynamo be part of the group against the Avengers. I've been watching the Avengers cartoon so I like the Enchantress and the Executioner a bit right now but I'm not sure they should introduce more Asgardians as the villains.

[Drooling Iguana]

I think in Captain America they just stuck with vibranium only for Cap's shield to keep from being too confusing. They got Hugh Jackman to do a cameo so not sure the adamantium thing would have been off limits. Not that anyone really knew what adamantium was in 1941. It didn't make a reappearance in Marvel comics until one of the Avengers books.

Hugh Jackman wasn't in Captain America. He did a cameo in X-Men: First Class, but that was another Fox movie unrelated to the Avengersverse. Maybe you're thinking of the cartoon, which did feature a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance from Wolverine in the episode that introduced Captain America.

[Tsyroc]

I think in Captain America they just stuck with vibranium only for Cap's shield to keep from being too confusing. They got Hugh Jackman to do a cameo so not sure the adamantium thing would have been off limits. Not that anyone really knew what adamantium was in 1941. It didn't make a reappearance in Marvel comics until one of the Avengers books.

Hugh Jackman wasn't in Captain America. He did a cameo in X-Men: First Class, but that was another Fox movie unrelated to the Avengersverse. Maybe you're thinking of the cartoon, which did feature a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance from Wolverine in the episode that introduced Captain America.

Ooops.

Surprisingly, in my head I had Bucky and Cap replaced in the shot where Wolverine tells Magneto and Prof X to fuck off.

The cartoon might have influenced that idea in my head but I'm also getting old and my brain is turning to mush.

IIRC, I do think they addressed the vibranium only shield in either the commentary or one of the extras on the Captain American DVD, but with the way my track record is currently going someone else might want to verify that.

[Darth Fanboy]

Along with basking in the glow of the soon to be released Avengers I, lets say the studio Ex's come to you and say here's a billion dollars we want an Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Hulk 2 and Captain America 2 all leading into Avengers II.

Who do you pick as your villains? Assume your baddies in Thor 2 will play some role in Avengers II and so on. Re-using enemies already in existing movies is discouraged.
So which Iron/Hulk/Thor/CA villains do you pick to throw down thus requiring Avengers II?

Warning: Fanwank ahead.

Skrulls! A Skrull conspiracy that weaves into the different films differently, although not always 100% obviously so.
Spoiler

Rumor has it though that Loki may be mainpulating the Skrulls and/or Kree in the Avengers movie but i'm trying not to be spoilerized.

Cap 2 - Modern Hydra being led by a Zemo type character connected to Red Skull, Hydra is trying to use...well lets say Hulk!... to (insert devastating consequence), in the end, ZEMO IS A SKRULL.

IM 3 - MODOK shows up, but in a much different form being a sentient computer. Some of the technology in MODOK ends up being alien, because SKRULLS.

Thor 2 - Beta Ray Bill! Whose planet was destroyed by Skrulls!

Avengers II - Take the plot similar to that of Secret Invasion, but make it not suck.

[mr friendly guy]

Thor II - I will introduce the Enchantress, Executioner, and Hela, who in a homage to some of the comics and in particular the Ultimates, she develops a fatal attraction vibe towards Thor.

Iron Man III - do a variation of the Armor Wars. This time we find that the technology for the rival armors is being supplied by the as yet to be revealed villain. Eventually the US government builds an Armor which gets the better of Iron Man. Stark then uses technology from the other Armored characters he has defeated, combined and defeats the big bad.

Captain America II - The US government tries to create their own Cap clone called the US Agent. In fact Congress starts debating a Superhuman registration act, wanting super humans to perform assasinations of AQ propagandists America's enemies .

Cap will eventually reveal the source of the corruption as manipulation by Baron Zemo who himself is being supplied by an as yet to be revealed villain.

In this movie I will introduce Hank Pym, without the name Giant Man. Just say that he has discovered Pym particles allowing him to grow big, but he hasn't ironed out the bugs yet. Hank will of course serve as the brains in the story.

Hulk II - The US goverment turns against the Hulk and forces ejects into space using a rocket where he lands on Planet Hulk. The technology is supplied by a mysterious benefactor. After beating the Red King Hulk is crowned King. The movie ends when during the wedding to Caiera a portal opens. It is Thor. The Thunder God tells Hulk that Earth is in danger and the Avengers need him.

Avengers II - The main is revealed to be Kang the Conqueror. At first an alien appears and is defeated by the Avengers. More ships arrive but are defeated by Kang who has appeared as a benefactor. However its suspicious, and soon his plot is revealed. Kang has been supplying high tech weapons to the highest bidder, but that is just a ruse. He wants the humans to fight themselves (his earlier plots to deal with individual Avengers are part of this plan), and he will take over. In his mind he has seen the future, or at least one possible future where humanity is enslaved by aliens (hints it the Skrulls). Kang believes he can prevent this. When his ruse is revealed, Kang launches his invasion.

During the battle Thor needs to appeal for help from Hela. She allows the armies of the dead to rise up which in turns helps them defeat Kang's army. The price she demands however is high.

Kang in the end uses his ultimate fan boy weapon. He creates a giant hologram of himself with forcefields (as seen in Avengers the Crossing, the Kang war etc) and supplemented by <insert object of power here> he is more powerful than the Avengers. He is finally defeated when Pym uses his Pym particles and make Hulk a giant Hulk, while Hela empowers Thor.

At the end someone, either Cap or Hawkeye dies. Thor reveals the price demanded by Hela is to be king of dead, ruling by Hela's side. He however agrees to return Hulk to Skaar before he leaves. The film ends with the Fellowship of the Ring the Avengers broken, even as they are triumphant.

[Ted C]

Iron Man 3: Introduce the Mandarin, of course (with a call back to Iron Man 1's "Ten Rings" organization). Shouldn't be a political problem, since the Mandarin was always as much an enemy of the Chinese government as anyone else. Mandarin conveniently introduces the concept of alien technology, since his rings are not of Earthly origin.

Captain America 2: If you want to keep with the theme, have Hydra emerge in the modern world under the leadership of Viper, who is the Red Skull's grand-daughter or something.

Thor 2: The classic team-up of Enchantress and Executioner is probably good. She's the brains, he's the brawn. Not sure what to use for motivation, though.

Hulk 3: The Leader seeking to discredit Bruce Banner (who's been getting a lot of slack since he started working with SHIELD).

Still puzzling over where to go with a second Avengers movie. Some kind of "Masters of Evil" scenario seems plausible, but I'm not wanting to introduce too many new characters, and I'm not sure the ones I've got here make a good team.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Ultron would be an obvious member of the Avengers rogue's gallery to use. You could even have him introduced in one of the other "feeder" movies, get defeated, and come back as Ultron-2, now with 100% more adamantium. I doubt that that would work for a mass-market audience -- too much repetition -- but it would suit the original source material.

Can Marvel legally use adamantium in an Avengers-verse movie, or does Fox own the rights to that concept as part of their X-Men license?

Adamantium as a concept isn't trademarked, and gets used in a lot of stuff. Thats why D20 RPG books can allow magical adamantium swords. Its in everything from World of Warcraft to Masters of Orion.

[Simon_Jester]

Friendly Guy, remember that we don't want to run off the comic plots too literally. Originality is good, as are plots that make sense to viewers who have no background in reading comics. Shooting the Hulk into space isn't a good move because it adds a drastically new element to the story (aliens and the whole space travel thing, which has so far been largely avoided unless you count Thor, which I don't really).

Also, you run into problems casting the government as a villain in a Captain America movie- it would be hard to handle that in a movie intended for mass appeal, rather than a comic audience who will (so to speak) follow and trust Cap because he's Cap.

[Tsyroc]

Kang could certainly be a good Avengers villain with lots of high tech stuff to smash and faceless mooks to smack around. There's lots of history there for them to mix stuff up too.

I like introducing the Kree if it'll lead to Ms. Marvel or Mar-vel, but it might actually be better off if they avoid new character origins in the Avengers movies. Introduce the other characters in the single character movies, or just have them be members with only hints of how they joined.

[Ted C]

Kang could certainly be a good Avengers villain with lots of high tech stuff to smash and faceless mooks to smack around. There's lots of history there for them to mix stuff up too.

I like introducing the Kree if it'll lead to Ms. Marvel or Mar-vel, but it might actually be better off if they avoid new character origins in the Avengers movies. Introduce the other characters in the single character movies, or just have them be members with only hints of how they joined.

I'm actually not keen on bringing time travelers or space aliens to the movie continuity any time soon. I think the Asgardians already carry enough of that kind of schtick around with them (and Cap has arguably done a little time travelling). I think the franchise will benefit from not introducing to many different "sources" of foes too quickly. Besides, Hollywood is already steeped in alien invasion movies.

[mr friendly guy]

Friendly Guy, remember that we don't want to run off the comic plots too literally. Originality is good, as are plots that make sense to viewers who have no background in reading comics. Shooting the Hulk into space isn't a good move because it adds a drastically new element to the story (aliens and the whole space travel thing, which has so far been largely avoided unless you count Thor, which I don't really).

Also, you run into problems casting the government as a villain in a Captain America movie- it would be hard to handle that in a movie intended for mass appeal, rather than a comic audience who will (so to speak) follow and trust Cap because he's Cap.

Well I didn't really want a Hulk movie (like you from your earlier post) but since the OP specified, I thought I better find a way to get rid of him. Its gets tiring if "Hulk smash" civillian buildings and military structures all the time.

I agree that casting the US government as a villain may be controversial, but lots of people watch David Duchovony sprout off anti government conspiracies even as he is employed by the same government. The use of the US government as bad guys can be mitigated by just saying "elements within the government" who don't necessarily represent the will of the American people are planning to replace Cap. Although I am not sure if people can get the irony when I have US agent perform assassinations of certain figures.

But anyway, the main interlocking theme I want for the movies, is Kang the Conqueror supplying advance technology to the foes of the Heroes in IM 3 and Captain America 2. The plot can vary. But I really want an Avengers ending with the group being "broken", so I need a death, Thor goes to Hel (heh heh) and if we don't have Hulk going back to Skaar, we can find someone else who goes elsewhere.

[Havok]

I think that before any attempt at an Avengers follow up movie is made, Disney/Marvel needs to reacquire Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Punisher and The X-Men. At the very least by the third Avengers movie. I'll get to why later.

The Hulk 2: This is by far the trickiest character and from the looks of what they are doing with Hulk in The Avengers, it's going to be hard to bring him down to the level he needs to be at to make a story that challenges the character and the audience.

That said... I would go with the mutation and change of personality angle. Bring in Joe Fix It, the Grey Hulk. This gives the chance for a story that doesn't have to dance around the back and fourth changes from Banner to Hulk. It also depowers him so that there can be a challenge to the character and obviously throwing the personal dilemma in of giving up anything he achieved as Joe in order to regain the power, yet also the savagery of the green Hulk, which of course he would need to solve whatever the issue of the movie would be... I have no idea what that is though.

Thor 2: Well, Bifrost must be fixed. Loki is the bad guy in Avengers so he is out. The Frost Giants have already been done. Another overthrow the throne story would be boring. It's too soon for Ragnarok. I gotta say fuck it. Time for Beta Rey Bill.

Cap 2: Obviously the Red Skull isn't dead. So a rebirth, or resurgence of HYDRA in the present day with them working towards his return is the way to go here. It allows the introduction of the powerful underlings of HYDRA and brings them into the present day. Of course, this is assuming this isn't the plot of The Avengers.

Iron Man 3: Time to get Tony blind stinking drunk. They have shown that he can get out of control a bit, but now it's time for it to be exposed as a problem. It wasn't a flaw the character was created with, but it is one of the most important and compelling story arcs of the character's run.

All the previous stories should of course, lead to Avengers 2: The Kree Skrull War.
This story should differ in the fact that it should be Earth and her heroes against both sides that want to control/destroy/reform Earth, or perhaps the solar system to fit some strategic need of both sides. The Avengers of course win the day, with the help of the FF, X-Men and Spidey mostly off screen of course and if their rights have been regained.

After the end credits and the massive battle that perhaps extended into the furthest reaches of space there is what looks like a star that appears to get brighter.
As the camera closes, the other stars around it fade and appear to be wiped away and the bright star seems to become a tear in space itself and there is a voice that is heard...

"I am from beyond..."

The follow ups for all the character movies all should end or have a post credit scene of them investigating something strange which has appeared somewhere (doesn't have to be Central Park) and when they enter/touch/scan it they disappear.

Which of course sets up The Avengers 3: Secret Wars.

[Solauren]

You'd need to set up the other franchises you mentioned for a proper Secret Wars, but DAMN, that would be one hell of a movie

[evilsoup]

You mean it'd be an unwieldy incomprehensible fanservice-laden nerdvana pile of shit, right?
I think Marvel not having the rights to spiderman, xmen etc is actually a very good thing.

Hrm... I guess xmen could be made to fit in with the avengers movies, but you'd have to retool them quite heavily (make them sort of cult-like and insular..).

[Darth Fanboy]

It is extremely difficult to do a major motion picture with a fuckton of characters, not nearly the case with comics.

But that being said I don't recall a film project like Avengers with so many major properties coming together like this, if they pull it off it would not be inconcievable to one day consider an Avengers vs. X Men movie, or "Civil War" or something along those lines (although obviously not exactly following the original plots)

[Simon_Jester]

I think they'd do better to not introduce significantly more characters than they've already got. What they have so far is really not much different from any number of "assemble a team of crack commandos" action movies- you can do that with some success and have half a dozen or so clearly distinct characters.

But throw them at a complicated situation and it might all fall apart- a two hour movie can only introduce so much detail. I'd argue that they should pick simple villains- I don't really know enough Marvel chronology to make it work well, but an alien conqueror, or an extremely powerful (supernatural?) villain, or something like that would work.

I don't think you want screwy ideas like the Secret Wars, which requires a large rogue's gallery of supervillains. Plus the whole cosmic cage match idea that plays better in a comic book where "X vs. Y, FIGHT" is actually an accepted pattern, because comic book fans are used to seeing X vs. Y fights even if the rationale for the fight isn't all that strong. Crossing over movies too heavily just gets you into Frankenstein versus the Werewolf territory, and movies like that tend to be unmemorable.

[Havok]

You mean it'd be an unwieldy incomprehensible fanservice-laden nerdvana pile of shit, right?

Right because watching superheroes fight supervillains is stupid and no one would pay to watch that.

[Havok]

You'd need to set up the other franchises you mentioned for a proper Secret Wars, but DAMN, that would be one hell of a movie

You don't need to set them up. They are already there. I suppose if you needed to, you could do some retooling. I mean, the Doom from the FF movies is actually quite the tool and nowhere near the character he should be.

However the way I imagine this working is that you run the "Avengers" title before the movie, but it doesn't restrict or mean that that is the only Avengers movie that can be in production or in the theaters at any given time. Like you could have Avengers: Secret Wars, Avengers: Invasion, Avengers: Civil War where the preface of Avengers just means that there is going to be some team up and crossover amongst the different franchises in the Marvel stable.

Avengers: Secret Wars the way I imagine it would be a two, or possibly a three parter and could actually serve as a launching off point for the reabsorbed rights of FF, Spidey, DD, X-Men if need be.

It doesn't preclude other Avengers movies coming out, and like how Secret Wars ran when it was a 12 issue series, the main titles that it drew from, came right back the next month with all their characters returning from "that crazy event I can't even describe yet until I have some time to wrap my head around it!"

Of course this is where the idiots chime in and say "OMG Hav, studio execs could never do that because it would be to confusing to the movie audiences!!"

[Havok]

I think they'd do better to not introduce significantly more characters than they've already got. What they have so far is really not much different from any number of "assemble a team of crack commandos" action movies- you can do that with some success and have half a dozen or so clearly distinct characters.

Every major player in Secret Wars, hero wise, has already been introduced. It is just a matter of who has the rights to them.

But throw them at a complicated situation and it might all fall apart- a two hour movie can only introduce so much detail. I'd argue that they should pick simple villains- I don't really know enough Marvel chronology to make it work well, but an alien conqueror, or an extremely powerful (supernatural?) villain, or something like that would work.

Secret Wars has got to be the least complicated idea, that worked, Marvel ever came up with. You are already half way there with what they have done with the Avengers, and you don't need anything beyond a decent plot, which has already been written for them, to get it done like they do with The Avengers.

I don't think you want screwy ideas like the Secret Wars, which requires a large rogue's gallery of supervillains. Plus the whole cosmic cage match idea that plays better in a comic book where "X vs. Y, FIGHT" is actually an accepted pattern, because comic book fans are used to seeing X vs. Y fights even if the rationale for the fight isn't all that strong. Crossing over movies too heavily just gets you into Frankenstein versus the Werewolf territory, and movies like that tend to be unmemorable.

Or Vampire vs Werewolf which seems to do very well.
Saying "Oh well comic book fans are used to it so that's why it works" is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard since NO comic book fans ever read anything like Secret Wars before it came out and it was a huge success.

Secret Wars was a 12 issue commercial for a new Mattel toy line. If movie studios in 2012 and beyond can't figure out to pull off a commercial from 1984, they should just pack it in.