AMC's "The Walking Dead" Season 2 Discussion (Spoilers)

[TheHammer]

Thanks for nothing Aklhut, obviously you couldn't be bothered to consider the main point of the sentence which was that the guys legs were chewed to shit. that wasn't a "bite". Either he had his legs seriously torn apart before he hung himself, or they were feasted upon after, suggesting walkers eat their own, maybe weaker or helpless members, which does not explain the one dragging itself along in the first episode.

I have answered my OWN question with more thought. He got bit, he wrote a poem, he hung himself, and BEFORE he revived, he was used as a human terriyaki stick. Then he reanimated to discover he was no longer able to model socks.

The walker dragging itself in the first episode is explained in the web series. I suggest you avoid it since it's total shite, but basically in an act of supreme stupidity, a woman feeds herself to a hoard of walkers so her children can escape. They tear her limb from limb and then she wakes up all zombified with her legs missing. This ends up raising more questions because she's torn apart in the streets and wakes up in the middle of a park area. But anyway, yeah, you have the right idea. Walkers will only eat fresh meat and will lose interest some time before the person turns but not immediately after they die. Unless the brain has been feasted on, whatever is left of the victim will reanimate as a walker.

She was bit on the arm, before she made that decision. So I assume she knew she would turn, but didn't know when. Its easy to rationalize in that instance, that rather than risking turning and attacking the children that she would sacrifice herself while they got away. She was still left with a useable arm which she did use to drag herself around in the first episode of season 1, thus that's how she got to the park. All that being said, the web episodes were somewhat cheesy.

IT is an interesting question as to when exactly a body ceases to be appetizing to a zombie. Perhaps when the body temperature drops below a certain level? Or a lack of oxygen in the blood?

[Themightytom]

Firstly: Jesus fuck, man, can you use the preview function to make sure you're quote tags aren't fucked up to hell and back?

Yes. As long as I am not posting from a droid with intermittent web signal. Sorry about that.

That's all the respond to; even insects have more complex responses to stimuli than zombies do, and I'd be hesitant to say that insects can experience suffering.

ummm pulled a lot off wings of flies have we? there's a huge difference between the behavior of insects relative to ability to feel sensations, and the ability of former humans. The nervous system is there, the question is whether the virus animates enough of the brain to process it.

Insinuations of cruelty to animals; stay classy there.

It was not an honest insinuation, it was a satirical extrapolation of the extremist form of your sentiment, relative to our discussion about Darryl's motivations.

Anyway, we see no complex behavior out of zombies. They move toward a stimulus in order to feed. Insects have more complex behavior; jellyfish and seastars are among the animals with functional neurological systems that exhibit behavior that is that simple (and even they have some more complex behaviors associated with them).

Are you claiming a correlation between complexity of behavior and ability to feel pain?

Additionally: we see no indications of zombies feeling anything remotely resembling pain or suffering. They hunger, but given that gross bodily trauma doesn't deter them unlike literally every other living thing on earth, I'd say that suffering is not something they are capable of feeling.

If they are not suffering what compels them to eat? What compels them to chase food?

As best as I can tell and remember, he wanted an answer from her and gave his word he'd kill the zombie if she answered him. He thought her answer was shitty, but he's apparently a man of his word and went ahead and killed the zombie. I wouldn't necessarily agree with his course of action, but it's not like it's completely inexplicable.

Darryl will not kill zombie because it would waste an arrow.
So then Dead Zombie < 1 arrow

Darryl kills Zombie for Andrea.
1 arrow> Andrea's opinion

Dead Zombie < 1 arrow > Andrea's opinion.

Wierd Morality.

He's an experienced woodsman who has seemingly hunted a great deal in the woods at night. It might not be wise to go traipsing about with the whole crew at night, but Daryl and an apprentice aren't going to attract all the attention that the whole crew would and he seemingly wants to feel like he's actually accomplishing something for the group.

His apprentice has been nearly killed twice in THOSE woods for not noticing a zombie when it was virtually standing next to her. She typically screams bloody murder in the process attracting attention.

And Zombies can see his flashlight. His experience should be telling him it's not worth it based on his expressed skepticism that she is A. in real danger and B. that they are likely to find her at night.

There's also the cogent argument that a certain number of risks can be handled and have good potential for reward (saving Sophie means less time spent on that task that could be spent doing other shit; group cohesion improves), while other risks are unnecessary and stupid (climbing up to retrieve an arrow from a zombie that doesn't need to be shot).

Which must be inferred because it has been at no point stated, as opposed to his direct statements that looking for her in the dark is a bad idea, and that she is probably going to be ok anyway.

[Themightytom]

IT is an interesting question as to when exactly a body ceases to be appetizing to a zombie. Perhaps when the body temperature drops below a certain level? Or a lack of oxygen in the blood?

I would guess it has something to do with the smell of the body and would therefore be related to decomposition. To experiment, the next time there is a zombie apocalypse, I will soil myself, and see what happens.

[Dread Not]

Thanks for nothing Aklhut, obviously you couldn't be bothered to consider the main point of the sentence which was that the guys legs were chewed to shit. that wasn't a "bite". Either he had his legs seriously torn apart before he hung himself, or they were feasted upon after, suggesting walkers eat their own, maybe weaker or helpless members, which does not explain the one dragging itself along in the first episode.

I have answered my OWN question with more thought. He got bit, he wrote a poem, he hung himself, and BEFORE he revived, he was used as a human terriyaki stick. Then he reanimated to discover he was no longer able to model socks.

The walker dragging itself in the first episode is explained in the web series. I suggest you avoid it since it's total shite, but basically in an act of supreme stupidity, a woman feeds herself to a hoard of walkers so her children can escape. They tear her limb from limb and then she wakes up all zombified with her legs missing. This ends up raising more questions because she's torn apart in the streets and wakes up in the middle of a park area. But anyway, yeah, you have the right idea. Walkers will only eat fresh meat and will lose interest some time before the person turns but not immediately after they die. Unless the brain has been feasted on, whatever is left of the victim will reanimate as a walker.

She was bit on the arm, before she made that decision. So I assume she knew she would turn, but didn't know when. Its easy to rationalize in that instance, that rather than risking turning and attacking the children that she would sacrifice herself while they got away. She was still left with a useable arm which she did use to drag herself around in the first episode of season 1, thus that's how she got to the park. All that being said, the web episodes were somewhat cheesy.

IT is an interesting question as to when exactly a body ceases to be appetizing to a zombie. Perhaps when the body temperature drops below a certain level? Or a lack of oxygen in the blood?

I'm aware of all that. If she wanted to serve as a distraction, jumping and screaming to get the horde's attention and then running in the opposite direction would have made more sense. Or make a last stand with the gun before turning it on herself, since her kids probably don't even know how to use the damn thing. And that's assuming that she isn't aware that you come down with a fever and die before turning. At the very least I would avoid the agony of being eaten alive by putting a bullet in my brain before serving myself up as bait.

If you watch the scene you see that she's laying on her back in the park partially rotten, and then it flashes forward with her appearing the way Rick found her. She then rolls onto her front and starts crawling. So unless she decided to roll onto her back for a little snooze, the park is where she woke up.

[Deathstalker]

Did I miss something? I wonder why Shane didn't go and get Darryl for the trip to the FEMA site. Hillbilly zombie killer versus fat slow zombie bait seems an obvious choice. It couldn't have been that far out of the way to get him. Otis could be the getaway driver and still wind up getting killed because he wanted to help, maybe in the same way. Having Darryl witness it and keeping the secret would be pretty good drama, or not be a witness and have his suspicions.

Not moving everyone to the ranch after Carl was shot is just another stupid act in a long list of stupid acts.

[FSTargetDrone]

Did I miss something? I wonder why Shane didn't go and get Darryl for the trip to the FEMA site. Hillbilly zombie killer versus fat slow zombie bait seems an obvious choice. It couldn't have been that far out of the way to get him. Otis could be the getaway driver and still wind up getting killed because he wanted to help, maybe in the same way. Having Darryl witness it and keeping the secret would be pretty good drama, or not be a witness and have his suspicions.

Not moving everyone to the ranch after Carl was shot is just another stupid act in a long list of stupid acts.

Darryl has been spending most of his time looking for Sophia, which is also the reason part of the group has remained on the highway.

Otis died because Shane needed a diversion. And I kind of doubt Darryl would not say anything if he saw Shane kill Otis.

[Themightytom]

Did I miss something? I wonder why Shane didn't go and get Darryl for the trip to the FEMA site. Hillbilly zombie killer versus fat slow zombie bait seems an obvious choice. It couldn't have been that far out of the way to get him. Otis could be the getaway driver and still wind up getting killed because he wanted to help, maybe in the same way. Having Darryl witness it and keeping the secret would be pretty good drama, or not be a witness and have his suspicions.

Not moving everyone to the ranch after Carl was shot is just another stupid act in a long list of stupid acts.

Even Dale would have been more useful, but they didn't even go back for weapons, they were panicking because Carl was shot. they didn't realize exactly what they were up against and were poorly prepared. Shane cut it really close, but the delay was mostly due to trying to evade zombies. i think the time spent going to get weapons and help would have probably yielded a similar result with one less fatality. Really, I'm peeved that after arriving at the house, Glenn and the girl could have gone to check on them. That might have bought Shane and Ottis the distraction they needed to escape unharmed.

Way to sit there PRAYING instead of helping Glenn, no wonder God won't help you people.

[Dread Not]

Something that occurs to me is that Shane still has his hair in the previously mentioned scene from the Season 2 trailer with him getting chased by a massive herd of walkers. So I guess that means it's a flashback? I doubt Shane's going to be around long enough for us to see all his hair grow back.

[FSTargetDrone]

Shane was being pursued in that preview during the day, right? It was nighttime when he offed Otis and then went on his merry way.

[Dread Not]

Shane was being pursued in that preview during the day, right? It was nighttime when he offed Otis and then went on his merry way.

I know. He was also wearing completely different clothing. I'm guessing it's a flashback to when he was trying to get Lori and Carl to safety, or somewhere in that time frame.

[loomer]

Daryl's getting some interesting development. The whole scene with the Cherokee flower was surprisingly touching and sincere, coming from an angry, slightly racist hillbilly.

[JME2]

And Shane managed to sidestep any obvious suspicion during the eulogy.

And the walker in the well...eeeewwwww....

[Themightytom]

Rick chooses to neglect the little girl for yet another day, because the first 48 are not a big deal according to his training. Glen, redneck girl, Lori, Dale, T Dawg, take the day off because Rick isn't there to concoct some poorly thought out plan for you today. Or Is he.

Herschel: Shut UP man, Dale and Rick could have gone searching for short periods riding on horseback asshole. And by the way we know somethings up with the barn. We're not idiots.

Dale: is inevitably going to bang Andrea, unless he dies first. I'm really not on board with the whole "target practice" next to the woods. I get that gun training is necessary. I would do it in a big wide open field with clear line of sight in every direction, next to my parked car. So that if Walkers heard and came a-stumblin, I could use THEM for target practice and then escape.

Glen gets laid, in spite of himself! Thank god for the Zombie Apocalypse.

Darryl continues to find an abundance of shitty ramshackle buildings hidden in the woods. No Zombie contact however, Andrea is apparently a lucky charm.

Carol: Awww the nice man brought you a flower!

That entire scene at the well was a facepalm. i agreed with T Dawg. That thing has been chilling out down in that well for who knows how long. The Water Is No Good, unless you want zombie tea. The situation that ensued was just painfully contrived stupidity.Dangling Glen on a rope? Seriously? Attaching that rope to corroded pipes? Seriously guys, if you don't have a winch i get it. If you don't want to drive a pickup around on the farm and want to use a horse, alright but there's a point where you're just TRYING to fuck up. how did that many people even have trouble pulling Glenn out? he's not skinny and T Dawg and Dale are both pretty big guys.

RICK... RICK I'm looking at you buddy, I feel like this is something you should have been trained in, in terms of rescuing. I know from my modest boy scout training that we do not lower people ANYWHERE without testing the load bearing capabilities of any supports very carefully, and piping that is obviously corroded is Never Good Enough. We also know how to belay, you have the big heavy guy firmly planted as a base, and then you have people who are pulling spaced out in front of him. You Don't Have ClusterfuckPocalypsePigePileShitShow...

So next time, don't risk a life, when there are multiple wells and this ones probably already useless. if you are bound and determined to extract the thing, try just lowering the loop without baiting it with a valuable member of the team. Things Should Stop There... but if they don't? Than make sure you rig up an appropriate mechanism and plan for basic contingencies, jeez.
If the Sheriff departments Emergency Response training is inferior to the boy scouts, then you BETTER put those badges away.

Lori, just use a bathroom next time, there's no need to be so dramatic. I saw no toilet paper, and I am concerned about hygiene.

[Guardsman Bass]

I liked that episode, but I agree that there were a few head-scratchers. Why were they so determined to avoid contaminating that well when there are several others? Were they afraid the guts will contaminate all of the groundwater?

More importantly, was the well inside their perimeter fence? If it is, then there should be some scary implications for Rick's Group about the security of the farm (since it means that the zombie managed to get inside before falling down the well).

Shane was great in that episode. He's still a bit fucked up from what he did to Otis, and it showed in his eulogy and speech to Andrea (who thankfully didn't pick up on the subtext). His situation with Lori continues to be fucked up as well, since they still obviously have feelings for each other.

I suspect that Hershel is keeping an infected person locked up in his barn. That would explain why he's averse to guns on his property, why the Farm Girl (can't remember her name) seemed really shocked when T-Dogg pulverized the zombie's head, and why he's trying to be optimistic about rescue being on the way. It's probably his son, or someone close to him.

Sophia continues to be missing, and I wonder if she'll be missing next episode as well. I think the preview showed Merle making a re-appearance, which isn't good.

Lori being pregnant isn't surprising. I suspected that the CDC Doctor whispered it to Rick back in "TS-19". No idea why Rick hasn't broached the issue with her yet.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm sorry to see Merle in the preview. I just hope he hasn't been channeling Gollum, following the group just out of sight lo these many days. It wasn't at all clear who he was talking to, but it seemed that he was talking to an individual, or at least not the whole group.

I have to stop watching previews!

Shane's decent into incoherence continues. I swear, I actually had trouble with understanding some of his dialogue in the previous episode, and last night, man, it's like he stuffed marbles into his mouth after donning the overalls. Conversely, Daryl is making it clear he's a lot smarter than he's let on. I think he's quite unlike his brother. Perhaps there may even be some sort of conflict between them, should they meet again?

They really need to wrap up the Sophia being lost storyline pretty soon. I know it's only been a few days story-wise, but we are swiftly running out of episodes before the season hiatus arrives.

I was very happy to see just the one Walker, er, Bloater. That was most unpleasant. Ultimately silly, but I can let it pass.

I want to know where Hershel is keeping his animals at night. Unless he has another barn, those animals would doubtless be uncomfortable (to say the least) at being in the same building as whatever may be inside.

[Dread Not]

Man, this was some of the greatest character stupidity we've seen so far. Funny how when someone says "live bait," everyone immediately thinks "let's dangle Glenn's dumb ass down the well!" Was there no livestock they could use? Could they not have trapped a wild animal? It's not like the walker is going anywhere. Though that also raises the question of what dangling that pork chop down there was supposed to accomplish in the first place. What were they going to do, get him to raise his arms up so they could get a lasso around him? Then of course, when the bloated heavily rotted walker gets stuck, the solution is "Pull harder!"

So Glenn and Maggie, you want to fuck, so you're just going to do it in the middle of a hopefully abandoned pharmacy? You do realize where the phrase "caught with your pants down" comes from, right? If you need somewhere more private than the bedroom of a crowded house, just put a blanket out on the grass somewhere and fuck there. If a walker stumbles across you there then at least you'll be able to see it before it's right on top of you. Stupid, horny, young people.

Dale: is inevitably going to bang Andrea, unless he dies first.

he's not skinny and T Dawg and Dale are both pretty big guys.

Dale is the old bearded dude. You most likely mean Shane.

[Guardsman Bass]

Shane's decent into incoherence continues. I swear, I actually had trouble with understanding some of his dialogue in the previous episode, and last night, man, it's like he stuffed marbles into his mouth after donning the overalls. Conversely, Daryl is making it clear he's a lot smarter than he's let on. I think he's quite unlike his brother. Perhaps there may even be some sort of conflict between them, should they meet again?

My guess is that Merle bullied Darryl a lot (when he wasn't in prison), but Darryl stuck with him out of familial loyalty. From what we've heard of Darryl's back-story, he sounds like the lone non-asshole out of a family of assholes.

They really need to wrap up the Sophia being lost storyline pretty soon. I know it's only been a few days story-wise, but we are swiftly running out of episodes before the season hiatus arrives.

Holy shit, you're right. I thought they were dragging out the story because they had 12 episodes this season instead of 6. They do, but we take a three-month hiatus in the middle of the season for some reason.

That sucks. It's happening just when my sunday night television viewing was getting awesome (what with Hell on Wheels following it immediately afterwards).

I was very happy to see just the one Walker, er, Bloater. That was most unpleasant. Ultimately silly, but I can let it pass.

I agree. And despite the scene being a bit weird (hence my comment above), I genuinely enjoyed watching it. Watching the bloated walker split in half . . . Jesus.

I want to know where Hershel is keeping his animals at night. Unless he has another barn, those animals would doubtless be uncomfortable (to say the least) at being in the same building as whatever may be inside.

He might not have any animals (aside from the horses). Has he mentioned any?

It's his farm, but Hershel said that he didn't come back to that farm until well after his abusive father died, and he's a veterinarian. Maybe he just lived on the farm, and made his living mostly off of doing veterinarian work for other farmers until the zombies showed up.

[FSTargetDrone]

I was very happy to see just the one Walker, er, Bloater. That was most unpleasant. Ultimately silly, but I can let it pass.

I agree. And despite the scene being a bit weird (hence my comment above), I genuinely enjoyed watching it. Watching the bloated walker split in half . . . Jesus.

And T-Dog summed it all up nicely with a funny line.

I want to know where Hershel is keeping his animals at night. Unless he has another barn, those animals would doubtless be uncomfortable (to say the least) at being in the same building as whatever may be inside.

He might not have any animals (aside from the horses). Has he mentioned any?

It's his farm, but Hershel said that he didn't come back to that farm until well after his abusive father died, and he's a veterinarian. Maybe he just lived on the farm, and made his living mostly off of doing veterinarian work for other farmers until the zombies showed up.

I thought I saw cattle in a distant shot? I hopped up to check on some popcorn, so I'm not sure.

[Stofsk]

Goddamn this was a stupid episode.

I wonder why they're taking this slow-ass approach to the show. Four episodes now and Sophia still hasn't been found. And the zombie in the well was just stupid.

Darryl continues being the only interesting character in the show and largely because he's not a fucking idiot.

[Deathstalker]

I don't expect everyone to be Green Berets, but it seems that the characters do a lot of dumb, stupid things.

I watched the Talking Dead show and a guest made a point that the zombies are walking corpses most likely full of disease.

[Themightytom]

Dale: is inevitably going to bang Andrea, unless he dies first.

he's not skinny and T Dawg and Dale are both pretty big guys.

Dale is the old bearded dude. You most likely mean Shane.

The first time I meant Shane, the second time I meant Dale. Dale is a bit tubby, whereas Shane is lighter, so Dale's mass would be a better anchor. Shane has the gimp leg too so he'd have trouble placing himself and frankly, if Shane was dangling me over a Zombie, I'd be worried about him dunking me in to buy himself time to locate my hypothetical wife and sleep with her.

[Dread Not]

Dale: is inevitably going to bang Andrea, unless he dies first.

he's not skinny and T Dawg and Dale are both pretty big guys.

Dale is the old bearded dude. You most likely mean Shane.

The first time I meant Shane, the second time I meant Dale. Dale is a bit tubby, whereas Shane is lighter, so Dale's mass would be a better anchor. Shane has the gimp leg too so he'd have trouble placing himself and frankly, if Shane was dangling me over a Zombie, I'd be worried about him dunking me in to buy himself time to locate my hypothetical wife and sleep with her.

If Dale qualifies as tubby in your neck of the woods then everyone you know must have eating disorders. He's also in his sixties, so busted ankle or no, I still think Shane is better qualified for the title of "big guy" who would be more capable of pulling Glen up.

[Meest]

It really distracts when you have to discount or count the stupid in each episode, that's how I know rate good episodes now. Is the actor playing Daryl allowed to improv or have a dedicated writer? If so give that person a promotion he's the best written right now. He goes out alone but "prepared" so still have options for drama there without forehead smacking dumb decisions. He shows he has a heart and tries to help without so far doing much damage to the pack. Compared to everyone else who still seems shell shocked at the world they are in. Glenn even mentions "we've seen a lot out there" yet they don't seem to learn anything.

No sense of dread or fear this season, would think the scope or intensity would rise but it's on cruise mode, hope it pays out later if they amp up the pace. Sure single people have been lost or hurt, but for the most part there is no imminent fear for the group since that highway herd. Is isn't as nail-biting or intense in terms of you want to know what happens next, instead it's more of ignoring the next dumb thing they're going to do while on farm retreat.

[Stofsk]

I think I like Darryl the most because he's actually an original character, i.e. not a transplant from the comic series.

[FSTargetDrone]

I thought there was a fair amount of tension when Darryl was exploring the house. I was also VERY happy that there wasn't a Closet Monster..er.. Zombie there.

Is he carrying a single arrow? He loaded the crossbow as he approached the building and it sure looked like there was just the one arrow in the crossbow's quiver.