The OotS Thread II

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Lonestar » 2012-07-30 10:55pm

In the very next comic he also says that "good and Evil are just words". He goes on to say he's trying to make a world where there is no reason for conflict. Maybe Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil...although he doesn't identify with the latter.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Rogue 9 » 2012-07-30 11:08pm

Lonestar wrote:In the very next comic he also says that "good and Evil are just words". He goes on to say he's trying to make a world where there is no reason for conflict. Maybe Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil...although he doesn't identify with the latter.

How many villains think they're villains? He's Evil, with a capital E, through and through.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Napoleon the Clown » 2012-07-30 11:54pm

Remember, just because his intents may be relatively good doesn't make him anything other than Evil. He's callous and casually has people killed. By burning them to death. Just as a present for his son. In D&D "Evil" is an actual property. It's not simply a mindset, it's something that can be detected. "I'm not evil." doesn't make you register as non-evil when someone points a Detect Evil your way. It's not a philosophy, it's an actual physical force.

But a twist! Maybe Tarquin is an exception and somehow managed to escape the alignments entirely, registering as True Neutral to anyone who checks. (I find this to be an absurd idea, by the way.)
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Serafina » 2012-07-31 05:06am

Again:
Even if Tarquin is Neutral, he is still affected by Holy Word - because Holy Word affects everyone who isn't good.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Napoleon the Clown » 2012-08-01 01:17am

I said registering. As in nobody can detect an alignment from him. This ridiculous theory states that he has no alignment, not even neutral. Also, it doesn't discount the idea of him also having too many hit dice. Also of note, it's an absurd theory not meant to be taken seriously.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Lonestar » 2012-08-09 03:44pm

Update. Sabine Banished

I don't get the failure to suggest.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2012-08-09 03:51pm

Lonestar wrote:Update. Sabine Banished

I don't get the failure to suggest.


Beklar was in the Holy Word's area of effect and was deafened because he's an evil, murderous little bastard.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Isolder74 » 2012-08-09 03:59pm

I love Roy's response to the attempt. "It's not a bug it's a feature!"

Roy show once again he's a master strategist.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-08-09 04:08pm

That is awesome. Love it. And Sabine's last words as she's banished are kinda sweet. They are evil but their relationship is healthy as a previous comic said.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Solauren » 2012-08-09 05:46pm

Now that's a successful ambush.

How quickly do you think Belkar will be able to take Nale apart.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Serafina » 2012-08-09 05:57pm

Crazedwraith wrote:That is awesome. Love it. And Sabine's last words as she's banished are kinda sweet. They are evil but their relationship is healthy as a previous comic said.
Which makes it all the more cruel that Nale can't hear her.

Looks like no one got blinded, which just goes to show how utterly underoptimized the characters are (apparently Durkon doesn't even have the Good domain).
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Ellindsey » 2012-08-09 06:38pm

Durkon has to have the good domain since he cast Holy Smite in an earlier comic.

We don't know yet what happened to Kilkil. He might have been blinded, or even paralyzed or killed if he's really low-level.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Kuja » 2012-08-10 12:00am

This ambush is going off really well. One of the enemy spellcasters is isolated, the other two are both deafened with one unable to cast, Sabine banished and now Nale's getting chewed up. And Tarquin's now occupied fighting Durkon rather than trying to anticipate the Guild.

I'd expect Malack and the zombie horde to find a way through the trap eventually though.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Blayne » 2012-08-10 01:00am

Serafina wrote:Again:
Even if Tarquin is Neutral, he is still affected by Holy Word - because Holy Word affects everyone who isn't good.


Although an epic character can conceivably bluff being good, though it takes some rules lawyering. Epic bluff can fool even magical detection, which makes no distinction between divine or arcane. The question would lie if Holy has to by definition act as a 'detection' spell in order to enact its effect in a cause-effect relationship.

That's assuming of course the caster of Holy was also Epic, as obviously your not affected by Holy if your higher level than the caster afaik.

It's an important point campaign narratively speaking if you want for example Tiamat to subtly trick a Good party to do her bidding, any wise ass can attempt to cast detect alignment, most of the Greater Gods should be able to bluff their way to a good alignment.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Ahriman238 » 2012-08-10 07:09pm

Serafina wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:That is awesome. Love it. And Sabine's last words as she's banished are kinda sweet. They are evil but their relationship is healthy as a previous comic said.
Which makes it all the more cruel that Nale can't hear her.

Looks like no one got blinded, which just goes to show how utterly underoptimized the characters are (apparently Durkon doesn't even have the Good domain).


Why whatever do you mean? It's been established that here, rivals and evil opposites are always the same level as you are, or a bit higher, whether they work their butt off or play cards. The Guild should all be at the same level as the Order to provide a credible threat, except for Malack and Tarquin, who as retired adventurers turned secret rulers should be expected to be Epic level, and Kilkil who was a clerk a week ago.

Having Belkar inside the Holy Word's area of effect was a clever twist that could bite them if they have to give him orders. But in the normal run of things he'd avoid them anyways. Besides, Nale has already 'suggested' Belkar kill the Order for him once before.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Blayne » 2012-08-10 09:50pm

Ahriman238 wrote:So far, a very competent ambush. They've separated the Divine caster from the others, including the undead, obscured their vision and had Durkon unleash a Holy Word. Plus they're exploiting the traps. And the Order's melee fighters haven't even come into play yet. My one objection is unless Haley has an appropriate magical item the smokescreen will pretty much take her out of the fight too.

Tarquin seemed a lot less (if at all) affected by the Holy Word, I'd guess he's a higher level than Durkon. Is it my imagination or does Tarquin's deference to Nale seem a lot more mocking and malicious than previously?


I think its only because of the stress of the battle and Nale's bad decisions upon getting hit by Holy is shortening Tarquin's otherwise impressive patience because now he's actually "at risk" in ways he wasn't before. Tarquin is mocking because he loves being a smug condenscending jerk and Nale makes it easy with how needlessly overcomplicated his Evil Overlord List violations are.

What I find amusing his Nale actually seems to be subconsciously trying to gain his father's approval.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Kuja » 2012-08-10 11:23pm

Ellindsey wrote:We don't know yet what happened to Kilkil. He might have been blinded, or even paralyzed or killed if he's really low-level.


I doubt Kilkil's dead. He may be a four-eyed clerk, but he's got wings. That suggests a template or some permanent spells, so even if he's just an expert he may take some killing.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Blayne » 2012-08-10 11:30pm

Also it would break with the running gag of Belkar killing the kobold guild members in increasingly gruesome ways. Which if he were to die it would at a minimum be by that means, or some ironic reference to it.

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Serafina » 2012-08-11 04:01am

Killik killing Belkar would be more awesome. Hey, Belkar IS supposed to die!
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby LadyTevar » 2012-08-11 11:51pm

Very true.

And Killik is a Dragonwrought Kobold. Due to the wings, we know he is at minimum 3rd level. His position at the Blood Court suggests he is higher level, possibly up to 6th.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Rogue 9 » 2012-08-12 03:31am

LadyTevar wrote:Very true.

And Killik is a Dragonwrought Kobold. Due to the wings, we know he is at minimum 3rd level. His position at the Blood Court suggests he is higher level, possibly up to 6th.

Yeah, but holy word (the spell is not called Holy; him just saying "holy" as the spell is a play on it being holy word, which suggests a single word is the verbal component) cares about hit dice, not effective level, so having level adjustment means he's more likely to get screwed, not less.
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby The Yosemite Bear » 2012-08-12 03:46am

I wonder what power level Jesse Custer has in that spell?
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Serafina » 2012-08-12 03:58am

But Dragonwrought Kobolds don't gain level adjustment - its a feat that opens up some other feats, as well as changing your type and granting some boni - oh, and potentially allowing Epic Feats from level 1 onward (i really doubt that matters here)
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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Simon_Jester » 2012-08-12 03:49pm

Ahriman238 wrote:Why whatever do you mean? It's been established that here, rivals and evil opposites are always the same level as you are, or a bit higher, whether they work their butt off or play cards. The Guild should all be at the same level as the Order to provide a credible threat, except for Malack and Tarquin, who as retired adventurers turned secret rulers should be expected to be Epic level, and Kilkil who was a clerk a week ago.
I don't think we should expect them to be Epic. An Epic-level fighter would have handed the Order their heads in close combat, even if there was only one of him; Tarquin seemed to have real trouble dealing with their combined strength hand-to-hand. Meanwhile, Malack hasn't cast any Epic-level spells; I think I've seen him use something 9th-level, but that could just mean he topped out at around 17-18th level.

Part of the point of Tarquin's plans is that he works so differently from Xykon. Xykon has epic-level magic, and uses it to dominate and crush his enemies by brute force. Tarquin is much more subtle, and doesn't need to single-handedly depopulate whole kingdoms to get what he wants. So there's no reason to assume he's as high level, just because he's successful.

Having Belkar inside the Holy Word's area of effect was a clever twist that could bite them if they have to give him orders. But in the normal run of things he'd avoid them anyways. Besides, Nale has already 'suggested' Belkar kill the Order for him once before.
As the title of the comic says, Belkar "Wasn't Going to Listen to Orders Anyway."

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Re: The OotS Thread II

Postby Crazedwraith » 2012-08-12 03:52pm

I don't think we should expect them to be Epic. An Epic-level fighter would have handed the Order their heads in close combat, even if there was only one of him; Tarquin seemed to have real trouble dealing with their combined strength hand-to-hand. Meanwhile, Malack hasn't cast any Epic-level spells; I think I've seen him use something 9th-level, but that could just mean he topped out at around 17-18th level.


You mean that fight where Tarquin was explicitly holding back and toying with them? Not saying you're wrong but that's not the best example.
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