Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

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Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Time for a review thread. Prescreenings are fun :D.

First of all: This really is "Watchmen: The movie version". Not a different version, not an update, not "based on Watchmen", this is a lot closer to "Sin City" in terms of framing copied from the comic and it being mainly material from the comic (with various cuts, and a few new jokes and material).
It's not as good as the comic, nowhere near as good, detailed, intricate, etc' (but that's a given). It's also far less "deep", less of a "Gritty" look behind Superheroes and more of a "superhero/comic book" movie (the cheorography of the fight scenes, especially the last one is less "Watchmen" and more "300/Sin City", aka lots of wire-fu and humans weighing as much as a bowling pin).

Oh, the most important point of all: They did not ruin the movie. And it has all of the really important elements, most importantly of all - the ending. And The Line. The "35 minutes" line. (Yeah, no more giant squid monster. So what?).

A lot of the scenes are really reduced by the overall lack of subtlety, there's a certain feeling of "pornography" in the gratuitousness of the sex, blood, violence and bones snapping (Moore would burst a vein if he hadn't already done so). The scene with Rorsrach's flashback is much, much worse. From "Fuck... Dang" to "Yeah, so? Dang this is a crappy adaption of the scene".
Ozymandias is much less interesting, less sympathetic, and looks like a sharpened blackened condom. (and "Karnak" is waaaay overdone, the only thing missing is the lake of lava).
Going along with the "more of a comic book movie", don't expect Nite Owl to show his age or the classic scene with him trying to fit the suit on, such subtleties are unneeded for "Watchmen! Now with Kung POW Action!".
The music is sometimes a bit much, but "The times they are a'changing" works well (The opening credits are GREAT, don't miss them!), "All along the watchtower" continues it's streak from BSG to be a really awesome penultimate song, and "March of the Valkyries" has its best appearance in a movie ever. (Manhatten, Vietnam and lots of exploding).
Speaking of Manhatten, he's just less...."good" than the comic version - the SFX are great (though I dislike the skin pores), and the glass structure looks AMAZING, but his character and behavior are too compressed. (Although the full flashbacks were maintained along with many others, a thing which is to bee very highly commended to "300 Zack Snyder - director of Watchmen").
Speaking of the director - too much "Slow motion - snap to movement, then back to slow mo". Waaaaay too much, especially in the begginning where's it's too gratious. And speaking yet again of the beginning - it's too heavy of flashbacks, the issue of Silk's father isn't so much foreshadowed as blared out loudly roughly 7 or so times.

Overall? It's an excellent adaption, and might have been better with a little more subtlety, a little less teenage crowd attempts at pandering, but the cuts were good and done very well overall (it still clocks in at 3 hours). Definetly a good movie, and i'll probably buy the dvd if only for the awesome looking "Tales of the black freighter mini-movie". I just might have enjoyed it more if I didn't know Watchmen damn near by heart already, it felt either like seeing a movie adaption, or an inferior movie version in damn near almost every screen. (Though there were some good changes, the jokes, the New Frontiersman, this and that).

Feel free to lambast me for missing details, I'm writing this after a sleepless night. :).

(Oh and my recommendation? Go see it. Seriously, even if you're not a fan of the comic. Which you should read, after the movie ;)).
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Fuck, I was SURE I'd posted this in Fantasy. Mods? (Sorry....)
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

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Hi-ho Silver, away to fantasy!
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by General Zod »

How the hell did you get to see it? I thought Watchmen wasn't released until the 6th.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Havok »

Yeah, they showed it Friday and Saturday night at WonderCon. Not sure if they showed it tonight.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Havok wrote:Yeah, they showed it Friday and Saturday night at WonderCon. Not sure if they showed it tonight.
There was a free prescreening in Israel for 50 people last night for senior staff at the "Comicon" equilevent we have here ("Icon").
So, you thoughts Havok dude?

@NL - Thanks.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Jaepheth »

I just got back from a sneak preview myself.

I think The Watchmen would work better as a miniseries, as they had to cut out too much of the depth to really duplicate the impact of the comic. At no point was I taken aback, thinking "wow" (though it may be different if you don't know what's coming)

As Death said, the slow motion was overused and the sex scenes were rather gratuitous and drawn out unnecessarily.

I think if they were to cut the action scenes down and put in more of the character and plot development, it would've been a better movie.

The pacing is pretty fast like the comic. If someone goes and sees this without having the slightest notion of what the story is, they may find it difficult to keep up with the plot upon first viewing.

I'd say the film will be a mild success. It follows the source material, but will require a bit too much brain power to process it in order for it to be enjoyed by an American audience.

Not the best possible Watchmen movie, but still pretty good. I'd see it again.

On the plus side, I won a drawing at the showing for a T-shirt and a soundtrack CD. They also had other swag including posters, coasters, buttons, and my personal favorite: Condoms with the phrase "We're society's only protection" printed inside the cover.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Whoa whoa whoa. Are you telling me that Ozymanias didn't teleport an Exploding Telepathic Space Squid into Manhattan for the express purpose of saving the world with a plot from the Twilight Zone? DEAL BREAKER, MAN, DEAL BREAKER! :lol:
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by General Zod »

DEATH wrote:
Havok wrote:Yeah, they showed it Friday and Saturday night at WonderCon. Not sure if they showed it tonight.
There was a free prescreening in Israel for 50 people last night for senior staff at the "Comicon" equilevent we have here ("Icon").
So, you thoughts Havok dude?

@NL - Thanks.
That makes two Israelis I know who've gotten to see it early now. Clearly this is some kind of conspiracy. :P
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

General Zod wrote:
DEATH wrote:
Havok wrote:Yeah, they showed it Friday and Saturday night at WonderCon. Not sure if they showed it tonight.
There was a free prescreening in Israel for 50 people last night for senior staff at the "Comicon" equilevent we have here ("Icon").
So, you thoughts Havok dude?

@NL - Thanks.
That makes two Israelis I know who've gotten to see it early now. Clearly this is some kind of conspiracy. :P
Hmmm? Faqa and Ace haven't seen it, so who are you talking about? :P
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Bounty »

General Zod wrote:How the hell did you get to see it? I thought Watchmen wasn't released until the 6th.
In the US, other countries screen it sooner. I'm going to see it tomorrow.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Big Orange »

I'll wait around 18 months and they'll probably have a Director's Cut of the film, with an early cut rumoured to run up to five hours. The movie adaption of Watchmen got an 18 rating as well.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by JLTucker »

Big Orange wrote:I'll wait around 18 months and they'll probably have a Director's Cut of the film, with an early cut rumoured to run up to five hours. The movie adaption of Watchmen got an 18 rating as well.
The director's cut is 3 hours 10 minutes long and will receive a theatrical release in July in New York and Los Angeles if the current cut does well.. Here's the relevant bit plus info about the DVD release:
"The director's cut is three hours and 10 minutes and comes out in July," Snyder revealed, calling his original edit "considerably more violent than this ... and sexier" and explaining that if the movie does well, the director's cut will get a theatrical release in Los Angeles and New York.

Following that, of course, will be the "Watchmen" DVD in the fall — which will include what he dubbed a "Crazy Ultimate Freaky Edition" boasting such time-omitted extras as "Tales of the Black Freighter," Hollis Mason's death, more Manhattan moments on Mars and dialogue-heavy scenes with the newsstand-bonding Bernies.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by General Zod »

DEATH wrote: Hmmm? Faqa and Ace haven't seen it, so who are you talking about? :P
Turns out I know people in other countries who aren't necessarily from this site? Shocking, I know. :P
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Bounty »

I have seen it. It opened at 2PM today; I was at the 2PM showing and so were... four nerds and a couple looking for a make-out spot.

Watchmen is incredibly hard to rate. I love the comic, so in my view, the movie is a pitch-perfect adaptation that manages to streamline and condense the story without compromising the characters or the narrative. I also realise that anyone who has not read the comic will be bored to tears by the midpoint, since they will only see a deeply confusing cavalcade of flashbacks and philosophical babble.

First of all, and I think everybody will agree on this point regardless of their opinion of the movie as a whole: it looks and sounds incredible. Visually it replicates the comic almost frame-for-frame and the end result is a movie with at least a good dozen scenes that will etch themselves in your memory. The only real blemish is the overuse of slow-motion for certain scenes; that said, I'd rather have slow-motion to highlight important details in properly choreographed, easy-to-follow action scenes, than no slow-mo in those frantic, blink-and-you-miss-it "action" scenes that are all the rage right now.

The soundtrack was a complete surprise too. Half the music in the movie consists of pop songs from the sixties to the eighties used very effectively. They really peg the movie as taking place in 1985 and some of them are used in a very surprising context. The opening credits alone are a treat in this respect, combining dozens of snippets from the comic with a well-known song that somehow fits perfectly.

The ending is the biggest change from the comic plot-wise, but I'm going to sin here and say I prefer this ending. It's tighter, it allows an entire subplot to be ditched (and god knows this movie has plot overload problems as-is), and in the epilogue everyone and everything are what and where they're supposed to be. The grand plan still takes places and has the intended result.

The rest of the plot... it's a brave effort at condensing a complex and expansive plot into a somewhat manageable form. Many of the framing devices are cut out, as is thankfully a lot of narration, but it's still a very cluttered movie that is going to be confusing for a lot of people. I'm not exaggerating when I say over half the runtime is flashbacks - which I suppose is an improvement on the comic - and while everything is always kept in an easy-to-understand context, it does get tiring after a while to keep shifting into the past for yet another character's backstory while the main plot is put on pause. Again, coming from the comic it makes sense and stays close to the plot, but from a movie-making standpoint it just doesn't flow right.

I was also surprised at the level of graphic violence. The comic was violent, of course, but nearly every time you expect a cutaway or a suggestions you get an in-your-face, often detailed chunk of gore. It's definitely skirting the edge of what would get an all-ages rating here.

The sex scenes are kept and one in particular is drawn out to the point where it gets a bit silly. Just a bit, mind; it's plot-crucial and tastefully shot, plus, you know, boobies, but it could have been trimmed without losing impact.

It's a long movie. It's a very long movie, but it's because of the source material, not because the director didn't know where to cut. Much of the background is compressed and insinuated rather than explicitly shown, so despite being long, it's also a fairly lean film; if there's a scene in it it is there because it couldn't be cut, and that helps keep things interesting.

So, on balance, it's a skilful and artistically mind-blowing adaptation of a source that should not and could not have been successfully adapted. It works more as a visual comic than a movie, which is why I agree a longer cut split into a miniseries would work a whole lot better. If you are a fan of the comic, by all means go and see it because you will have an excellent experience. If you're not a fan of the comic, you'll find a good-looking but ultimately confusing and boring series of vignettes about superhero life.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Majin Gojira »

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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by GuppyShark »

I took several friends who had never read the comic before to see it yesterday, and none of them complained that the plot was too confusing or complicated. I think we're underrating how well the narrative unfolds.

Honestly, the only complaint they had was the massive amount of wang.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Gandalf »

I'd never read the comic before, aside from the first few pages and hearing about the "thirty-five minutes ago" line. Overall, I quite enjoyed it. Now for some point form points:

I liked that there was no cutting away. Doctor Manhattan was naked, except for the occasional speedos. People died in glorious bloody messes. Then at the end, whole cities are wiped out.

Patrick Wilson looked too much like early 80's Chevy Chase. It bugged me in every one of his scenes.

The credits montage, with the heroes rising and falling was fantastic. It sets up a lot of the history needed, and the music was perfect.

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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Bounty »

I saw it again last night, this time with friends who hadn't read the comic and generally aren't into action movies; they liked it, although the general complaint was that the movie was both too compressed and too long.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by SylasGaunt »

Just got back from seeing it myself.

I'd say that's a rather successful effort at adapting Watchmen to the screen. It's a very plot heavy film with subplots branching off from the main plot like kudzu but it at least keeps moving forward (or backward.. there really are a lot of flashbacks in there, but at least only a few of them are of the 'hey remember this thing we showed you an hour ago? It's important now!' variety, and instead they give background).

I'm going to go against the general flow and say I didn't mind the slow-mo, particularly in the fight scenes. Yes too much slow-mo can get obnoxious but it's still infinitely better than the epilepsy-cam most directors seem to want to use for most of their fight scenes nowadays.

Some lines are removed like Rorsarch's commenting on Ozy possibly being gay, though in some cases they get nods given to them (Ozy hanging out with the Village People, and the folder on his computer labeled 'Boys').

The music is friggin great and really pegged the time period (was that Tears for Fears I heard right before the assassin tried to take out Ozymandias?). Though every time I hear Philip Glass I think of the Evil Eye scenes from Scrubs.

And while there's a few things about the ending that niggled at me (like a slight change to the 35 minutes line, though nothing big enough to really make me bitch about it), I did very much appreciate getting to see Nite Owl throw Ozy a beating while the Alexander wannabe stands there and takes it.

Also Rorsarch's antics got the most applause so that trend continues.. though the movie makes it very clear he's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Anyway, rambling done, sleep now.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by GuppyShark »

SylasGaunt wrote:The music is friggin great and really pegged the time period (was that Tears for Fears I heard right before the assassin tried to take out Ozymandias?).
Almost. It was their song "Everybody wants to rule the world" but according to the music credits, it was performed by someone else.

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering - there is nothing after the credits.
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Ender »

welp
If you take your kids to see "Watchmen," you're a moron.

If you see it yourself, you're also probably a moron and a vapid, indecent human being. The movie arrives in theaters at Midnight, Thursday Night. It's rated "R"--which should kinda sorta be a hint--but it really deserves an "NC-17," at the very least. And plenty of clueless parents brought their young kids and kept them there for the entire almost three hour "experience" at the screening I attended.

Yes, I know, it's being heavily marketed as a superhero movie, with action figures for your kids. But that--and the heroic-looking movie trailer--are a big, fat lie. And that's where real parenting comes in . . . like actually investigating the movie before you take or send your kids to see this garbage.

In fact, as a movie critic who sees most new releases, I haven't seen a more violent, depraved movie in years (not to mention a longer, more boring movie with a more preposterous and silly plot). This movie makes the graphic bloodshed of the recently released "Friday the 13th" look like "Cinderella."


This really isn't a superhero movie at all. In fact, there was little "superheroing" until after the second hour of this nearly three-hour exercise on defining deviancy down. Some on the right are claiming this is a conservative movie because it's made by some of the same people as "300" (read my review). But this is no "300." (And that wasn't for kids either, but this is far much less so.) A few lines of dialogue by the character "Rorschach" deriding "liberals and intellectuals" doesn't excuse the nearly three hours of poison here. In fact, the movie kind of has a peacenik-themed ending and "message" regarding nuclear weapons. If this move is "conservative," who the heck needs liberal?

There were so many disgusting, violent, morbid, grisly scenes and acts of killing, I had to start writing them down, lest I forget. And that's in addition to the rape scene between superheroes (complete with violent beating of a female superhero) and an explicit sex scene between two other superheroes. Oh, and don't forget another superhero's swinging computer-generated penis frequently in your face on-screen.

In just the opening credits of this mindless celluloid claptrap, there's a lesbian take-off on the famous photo of a woman kissing a sailor in Manhattan who is returning victorious from World War II. The lesbian make-out scene, featuring a "superhero," is bad enough. But then, we see cops looking over their naked, bloodied, dead bodies on a bed, with the words "LESBIAN WHORES," written in blood on the wall.

Mommy, mommy, what's a lesbian? What's a whore? And remember, this is just the opening credits.

The "plot" of this movie--if you can call it a plot--is that there were costumed superheroes in the '40s and beyond. They grew old, but some of them didn't. Then a new crop of costumed superheroes with special powers cropped up, some of whom were related to the older ones and some who still remained from the older group. But they all retired. Now, a superhero known as "The Comedian"--who is also a rapist and shot a Vietnamese woman who was pregnant with his kid (all of which we see depicted on-screen)--is murdered, and some of the superheroes, the "Watchmen," get back together to find out who did it.

At the same time, the Soviets are about to nuke America. It's 1985 and Nixon is President. We've won in Vietnam. Oh, and Henry Kissinger has a Russian accent. And Ronald Reagan is thinking of running for President in 1998. Wow, isn't that cool that they got it wrong on purpose? I'm so amazed at this "high-brow art" of deliberately getting dates and timelines wrong, you know, just to be "artistic," and get the drooling of the critics. That is sooooo genius. Like way totally cool.

Maybe if I make a movie about how Eisenhower was President in 1972, we "lost" World War II, and Bin Laden was gonna bomb the World Trade Center then, I'll be cool, too. . . so long as it's "dark" and I include a bunch of rape, torture, explicit sex scenes, and extremely graphic killings, and oh, write a "graphic novel" a/k/a comic book about it, first.

In the midst of this stupid story, we're treated to the following:

* Dogs fighting over, tearing apart, and eating a six-year-old girl--we're shown them chowing down on and tearing apart the remaining leg and leg bone, with the sock and shoe still on the bone as the dogs wrestle over it;

* A close up of man repeatedly getting an axe-blade driven through his skull while he's being butchered;

* At least two very graphic scenes of naked superhero "Dr. Manhattan" vaporizing people to just blood, limbs, and guts hanging from the ceiling or spread in the snow;

* Many scenes of Dr. Manhattan's computer generated penis swinging about;

* A kid biting a giant, bloody chunk of flesh out of another kid's face--he grows up to be "Rorschach," one of the superheroes' compatriots;

* A man's hands and arms being sawed off with an electric saw--we're shown the bloody stumps and the bloody sawed off limbs in close up shots;

* A man with vat of hot french fry oil deliberately thrown over his head--we literally see him fry, and he ultimately dies, we're told (no kidding);

* Many, many scenes of people's hands, arms, fingers being broken in half or crunched by the "superheroes";

* Cops being set on fire and burning to death by superhero compatriot "Rorschach;"

* Superhero "The Comedian" (a bad Robert Downey, Jr. look-alike) brutally beating and raping another superhero--tis movie concludes that the rape was a good thing b/c the slutty superhero had a slutty superhero daughter from him;

* Superhero "The Comedian" shooting and killing a Vietnamese woman because she's pregnant with his kid;

* Superhero "The Comedian" being thrown off a roof of a tall building--we see his body hit the ground and the blood flow out;

* Two superheroes have an explicit sex scene in a spaceship--she's on top, then he's on top, awesome--you can teach your young kids multiple sexual positions before they even reach puberty, by taking them to see this (there's a less explicit sex scene between the slutty superheroine and another superhero not long before that).

And these are just the highlights, plus superheroes hurling obscenities--great for the kiddies. There's so much more--along with horrible make-up, bad acting, and terrible computer generated images (including the penis). Not to mention, a bad, extremely slow, and boring script.

Yup, this is the garbage that Rupert Murdoch's Fox and Warner Brothers and Paramount are marketing toward your kids. All of these studios have a piece in this movie. And even thought the budget was just $100 to $125 million, because of a long legal battler between WB and Fox, the legal fees and pay-out make it such that they must recoup at least $200 or 300 million and make a profit. To do so, they are pimping the movie to all niches, especially your young kids.

But just because shameless whores and crack dealers of Hollywood deal this stuff out, doesn't mean you have to buy it and poison your kids' minds with it.

Remember the morons I told you about who took their kids to see the latest "Friday the 13th," last month? Well, they were back with their kids at a Monday Night screening of this horribly depraved, whacked out movie.

Remember the White single mother who told me her ten-year-old son could see it because "he knows it's not real and he knows the difference between right and wrong"? Well, she was back with her ten-year-old, and they waited in line for at least two hours with their free pass to get in to this screening, I'm told. I saw them walking out at the end.

Her son is going to grow up to be messed up. Don't do the same to your kid.

And do yourself a favor, too. Save the ten bucks and the three hours of your life you'll never get back. And the nightmares of some guy's bloody, sawed-off arms and hands still clinging to the doors of a jail cell.

I don't just worry that this is the new superhero movie being marketed to your kids today. I worry about the ones that will be even more depraved a decade from now.

G-d help this country (minus Hollywood).

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Anguirus
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Anguirus »

^ Granted, the one writing that review is far from this flick's target audience, but it's still amusing how much it Completely Misses the Point. (A "peacenik" message at the end? Really?)

The marketing for this movie has been pretty dumb at times, but it's not the studios' fault that stupid bitches take their little kids to midnight screenings of violent-ass movies. There was a newborn at my TDK late screening. I really think that these parents aren't so much "confused" by marketing as selfish...especially if they stayed through the whole thing.
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"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Watchmen. [SPOILERS!]

Post by Majin Gojira »

At the same time, the Soviets are about to nuke America. It's 1985 and Nixon is President. We've won in Vietnam. Oh, and Henry Kissinger has a Russian accent. And Ronald Reagan is thinking of running for President in 1998. Wow, isn't that cool that they got it wrong on purpose? I'm so amazed at this "high-brow art" of deliberately getting dates and timelines wrong, you know, just to be "artistic," and get the drooling of the critics. That is sooooo genius. Like way totally cool.

Maybe if I make a movie about how Eisenhower was President in 1972, we "lost" World War II, and Bin Laden was gonna bomb the World Trade Center then, I'll be cool, too. . . so long as it's "dark" and I include a bunch of rape, torture, explicit sex scenes, and extremely graphic killings, and oh, write a "graphic novel" a/k/a comic book about it, first.
While the rest of this review had me groaning with it's stupid assumptions, this segment is just so damn funny not to focus on.

Hear that? That's the sound of the movie totally flying over the reviewer's head.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran
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